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re: Georgia is the best job in the SEC but can be a nightmare
Posted on 5/10/18 at 1:44 pm to TideFaninFl
Posted on 5/10/18 at 1:44 pm to TideFaninFl
quote:
Your link does not match up with my link, so which are we to believe, an internet site of questionable stats, or a newspaper with actual credentials?
Congrats to the State of Georgia on the one time achievement in the NFL draft.
I've seen a whole lot of these kinds of "Where do NFL players come from" over the years.
My personal recollection is that most often you see Louisiana and Mississippi in some kind of 1-2 thing, then a bunch of other southern states.
Now Katrina may have bollixed the numbers, and it is showing up roughly a decade later. Maybe.
Will also say Middle Tennessee is putting out a load of players now. Not Georgia level, but a load of them (Middle Tennessee getting that much pop. growth?).
But to add, most of the lists I mentioned have Gerogia and Florida doing pretty well per capita (higher than Ohio, Texas, and California for example).
But they usually rank behind the two delta states.
Just my two cents. And while Georgia certainly produces more Div I signees than South Carolina, generally they do just as well as Georgia per capita (maybe a little better more often than not, these things fluctuate every time you see an article like this).
And to repeat once more, the only two real outliers on the per capita NFL players... birthed are LA/MS, followed by a bunch of other southern states, then the Texas, Ohio, California states.
Will say the NE has some pretty good players coming out of some states. NY is surprisingly good. If some SEC team could get a real pipeline going to Jersey they could get some excellent players, though I'd imagine only KY and USC are really positioned for that, except for teams like Florida signing the occasional 5 star.
I've always thought KY was a really interesting situation potentially. Some recruiting machine like James Franklin (or Muschamp or Kirby or...) could really get something interesting going with selling the SEC to Ohio, Jersey, Pennsylvania kids, while still recruiting KY, Georgian, etc.
Of course you still actually have to coach the kids. But they are there and KY should be very sellable to them.
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Posted on 5/10/18 at 2:24 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
Posted on 5/10/18 at 2:26 pm to Sunbeam
quote:
My personal recollection is that most often you see Louisiana and Mississippi in some kind of 1-2 thing, then a bunch of other southern states.
Not really here are the numbers for 2017
quote:
States with most NFL players
Florida - 212
California - 191
Texas - 179
Georgia - 120
Ohio - 82
Alabama - 62
Louisiana - 59
Pennsylvania - 59
New Jersey - 52
South Carolina - 52
North Carolina - 49
Illinois - 41
Michigan - 40
Virginia - 38
quote:
Just my two cents. And while Georgia certainly produces more Div I signees than South Carolina, generally they do just as well as Georgia per capita (maybe a little better more often than not
Not reallybut why does it even matter if Georgia produces 220 signees and SC produces 46 LINK ?
Posted on 5/10/18 at 2:34 pm to jimdog
didn't read that wall of text, but agreed Georgia is one of the best coaching gigs in the SEC and the country...main reason being in-state talent.
Alabama is obviously a great one, too, because of the amount of resources they're willing to dedicate to their football program (Georgia is getting better in this regard), the tradition, the legacy, etc. Lots of pressure there, though.
Alabama is obviously a great one, too, because of the amount of resources they're willing to dedicate to their football program (Georgia is getting better in this regard), the tradition, the legacy, etc. Lots of pressure there, though.
Posted on 5/10/18 at 2:40 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
Not really here are the numbers for 2017
It's ONE year. I can absolutely guarantee you that in a year or so you'll see another one of these, with the same suspects at the top, but someone different in the pecking order.
But agin, when you see a new one that covers "per capita production of NFL players," odds are LA/MS will be at the top of the list.
quote:
Not reallybut why does it even matter if Georgia produces 220 signees and SC produces 46 LINK ?
It means that GA players get a lot more buzz, and a coach in Ohio finds it a lot more convenient to sign a kid from just outside Atlanta (and the whole flipping state of Georgia is "just outside Atlanta"), as opposed to finding some rawboned skinny kid from Eufala, who can run like a deer and is going to fill out nicely.
In short, Georgia players are overrated. Kinda. The quality of athlete produced in Georgia is no better (but no worse) than in Alabama, Middle Tennessee, NC, SC, Florida, etc. But per capita, not as good as LA/MS.
You just have at least twice the population of these other areas (counting Middle Tennessee as an area), save for Florida.
Atlanta is a heck of a one stop shop though.
Actually I'd bet if you went fine grain on things, and counted "Atlanta" as a state by itself, you'd find that a number of great players didn't come from there, and weren't recognized as having talent. Then they go to Wake Forest or Appalachian State or something, and become excellent players.
Posted on 5/10/18 at 3:23 pm to Sunbeam
quote:
It's ONE year.
It's a total over several years.
Is Mississippi all of sudden gonna crack the top
top 5 when they aren't even in the top 14?How exactly is that gonna work?
quote:
but someone different in the pecking order.
Huh?It's actually pretty simple.Just about all the southern states are trending up and it's been that way for several years.Pennsylvania,Ohio and California are trending down and its been that way for several years as well.In the south it's a pretty strong correlation to population growth.
quote:
It means that GA players get a lot more buzz,
For God's sake this is stupid and you have no evidence to back up what your saying.30 years ago Ohio and Pennsylvania were ahead of Georgia in recruits and D1 signees.Was that because both states were "getting more buzz?
quote:
But agin, when you see a new one that covers "per capita production of NFL players," odds are LA/MS will be at the top of the list.
Once again,what does it matter?And once again per participant is a far greater outlier and here's a link
based on percentages Florida and Georgia are #1 and #2 So are you saying these players are drafted because they get more "buzz"???You think an NFL GM is REALLY gonna base his decision on that?
quote:
In short, Georgia players are overrated. Kinda
Please provide a link.CFB coaches who sign these kids are paid millions of dollars along with huge staffs that evaluate these kids.Are they ALL wrong?Is it some type of conspiracy???
quote:
Actually I'd bet if you went fine grain on things, and counted "Atlanta" as a state by itself, you'd find that a number of great players didn't come from there, and weren't recognized as having talent
WTF are you talking about?Please provide link or ANYTHING else to back up what your saying.
Here's the 24/7 list of the top 33 blue chip players
from Georgia
TWENTY TWO 2/3's were from metro Atlanta amd 1/3 was from Gwinvest County alone.
Kinda blows up your silly little theory doesn't it?
Posted on 5/10/18 at 3:32 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
My personal recollection is that most often you see Louisiana and Mississippi in some kind of 1-2 thing, then a bunch of other southern states.
Not really here are the numbers for 2017
If you look pre-Katrina, Louisiana had more NFL talent than every other southern state not named Florida. After, when the Delta was severely damaged, many quality players went elsewhere (Houston, Orlando, Atlanta, etc.), so Louisiana dropped.
So Georgia is a newcomer to this. But even with the influx of talent, UGA has barely moved the needle (yes, you went to the CFPCG last year.) You can say that it will change, but until UGA does it consistently, you need to cool your heels.
Tennessee, Auburn, LSU, Florida, have all won NC since UGA won their last one, and Auburn, LSU and Florida have played in several title games in the last 15 years.
Georgia is producing the second most NFL players at the moment, but all that is a meaningless stat, a recruiting tool, that may only have been a one year wonder (the previous year Georgia had 97.) Continue it for a decade, thus proving your point, then we will talk.
Posted on 5/10/18 at 3:53 pm to TideFaninFl
quote:
1) Alabama was on probation during that time, and was not able to sign even the top level players in the State of Alabama.
Okay, but your numbers seem to be based upon players from a particular state that are playing in the NFL. Alabama being able, or not being able to sing layers would have no affect on that statistic.
quote:Must be very slowly, because many of them settled in Georgia, and have no intention of returning to Louisiana. But, regardless, Louisiana has never, to my knowledge, been thought of as a better state in terms of High School football talent.
2) New Orleans suffered a major hurricane, and a great deal of talent left the state. It is slowly rebuilding.
quote:I can understand why you feel this way, but I would say otherwise. That is a difference of roughly 33%. That's hardly a wash.
the difference in Alabama's number and Georgia's number is 37 players which is a wash.
I don't know where your link for Cleveland.com came from, but the one I am looking at clearly says Georgia had 9 and Alabama has 60. How is 60 greater than 97?
Cleveland.com
Your link is a link to a Bleacher Report article that gives weighted rankings.
It also has more to do with how players are developed once they are in college, more so than how they are ranked coming out of high school. And even with those weighted results, Georgia still ranks out at #4, so it has more to do with Alabama and Louisiana being more talented than perceived, than Georgia not being as talented. Georgia is perceived to be the 4th best state in high school talent, and according to your link, that is exactly where they stand. I shoudln't have gotten involved with y'alls conversation as it really doesn't matter to me at all.
Posted on 5/10/18 at 4:11 pm to TideFaninFl
quote:
If you look pre-Katrina, Louisiana had more NFL talent than every other southern state not named Florida.
More than Texas?You gotta link?That would be huge news to the folks in Dallas and Houston.
quote:
So Georgia is a newcomer to this. But even with the influx of talent, UGA has barely moved the needle (yes, you went to the CFPCG last year.) You can say that it will change, but until UGA does it consistently, you need to cool your heels.
A "newcomer " compared to who? Its been a top 4 or 5 state for D1 signees for the last 15 years but the talent level has accelerated along with the growth of Metro Atlanta the last 10 years.
Why are you making this point again about UGA?Georgia fans are well aware of how CMR underachieved especially the last half of his career.
Posted on 5/10/18 at 4:22 pm to TideFaninFl
quote:
After, when the Delta was severely damaged, many quality players went elsewhere (Houston, Orlando, Atlanta, etc.), so Louisiana dropped.
You do realize there's almost 200,000 more people in Louisiana now than before Katrina,right?
Soooo there must have been a HUGE percentage of HS FB players who "moved away",correct?
Posted on 5/10/18 at 4:29 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
WTF are you talking about?Please provide link or ANYTHING else to back up what your saying.
Here's the 24/7 list of the top 33 blue chip players
from Georgia
TWENTY TWO 2/3's were from metro Atlanta amd 1/3 was from Gwinvest County alone.
Kinda blows up your silly little theory doesn't it?
No, I'd say it backs up my theory. If you had two perfectly equivalent players, talent, work ethic, position and weight even.
But one is rated a 4 star in Lawrenceville. But a kid with similar chops in Savannah or some sleepy little town in South Georgia is rated as a one or two star.
The Lawrenceville kid goes to UGA. The kid from Savannah doesn't even sniff an UGA offer, and goes to Wake Forest. Both get drafted and stick in the NFL.
Now I'm pretty sure a guy like Kirby does his own evals. If he sees a kid he thinks has the tools, but is a 2 star, I'm sure he would offer him.
Then actually the rating services would take another look at him, and maybe rerate him.
But if Kirby hadn't heard about him, or seen any film on him, that doesn't happen.
Meanwhile the rating services are perfectly happy to hype up guys from the usual places, instead of looking at some guy from a South Georgia podunk.
Posted on 5/10/18 at 5:11 pm to Sunbeam
I doubt a wake forest is gonna find a kid that wasn’t seen by all other schools recruiting the state of ga.
Posted on 5/10/18 at 9:19 pm to TideFaninFl
Continue it for a decade, thus proving your point, then we will talk.
I've continually proved my point and shot down everything you had to say including your now insipid Katrina excuse along the Alabama "probation" excuse.Both of which you failed to back up with any type of data.You do realize that Louisiana has a higher
population now than pre Katrina,correct?
It's not a year anomaly...it's a cumulation of several years which you fail to grasp.The amount coincides with
population trends in the south with slight deviation which you fail to grasp.So yea,I don't need "talk" to you about anything after I've continually and repeatedly proved my point.
I've continually proved my point and shot down everything you had to say including your now insipid Katrina excuse along the Alabama "probation" excuse.Both of which you failed to back up with any type of data.You do realize that Louisiana has a higher
population now than pre Katrina,correct?
It's not a year anomaly...it's a cumulation of several years which you fail to grasp.The amount coincides with
population trends in the south with slight deviation which you fail to grasp.So yea,I don't need "talk" to you about anything after I've continually and repeatedly proved my point.
Posted on 5/10/18 at 9:39 pm to Sunbeam
quote:
No, I'd say it backs up my theory. If you had two perfectly equivalent players, talent, work ethic, position and weight even.
What?You proved nothing other than giving your opinion
and my data made this statment even more absurd
quote:
"Atlanta" as a state by itself, you'd find that a number of great players didn't come from there, and weren't recognized as having talent
quote:
But a kid with similar chops in Savannah or some sleepy little town in South Georgia is rated as a one or two star.
The Lawrenceville kid goes to UGA. The kid from Savannah doesn't even sniff an UGA offer, and goes to Wake Forest. Both get drafted and stick in the NFL.
Please give me REAL LIFE scenario of this happening...this is nothing than you're own theory backed up by zero anecdotes.And I can promise you both
WF and ASU both recruit and sign more kids from metro Atl than rural Georgia...it's simply a numbers game with many more D1 prespects in the metro
Kirby doesn't recruit two stars BTW and neither does Saban unless maybe their kickers or long snappers and there isn't much evidence to even back that up.
You should familiarize yourself blue chip ratioIt might help you understand things a little better.
quote:
But if Kirby hadn't heard about him, or seen any film on him, that doesn't happen.
Please give me a specific examples of this happening...sure ALL schools miss out on guys but it's not because 1 area of the state is "hyped"over another.
quote:
Meanwhile the rating services are perfectly happy to hype up guys from the usual places, instead of looking at some guy from a South Georgia podunk.
Why would they do this?What is their particular motivation?
Posted on 5/10/18 at 11:13 pm to RD Dawg
Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that Georgia produces significantly more talent than Alabama is just ignoring plain numbers. Contrary to popular opinion, Bama has never gotten all that much, even under Saban. Except for 2009, 10 and 12 (great year) Bama has gotten little, and almost nothing since 2012. Miller Forristall is the most productive player signed since then and he's not a starter. McKinney, signed in 2017, who will play and maybe start this year is number 2. 2019 will be their best year from Georgia since 2012 - assuming they can hang on to the 3 they currently have.
Posted on 5/11/18 at 8:14 am to RD Dawg
quote:
You do realize there's almost 200,000 more people in Louisiana now than before Katrina,right?
Soooo there must have been a HUGE percentage of HS FB players who "moved away",correct?
How many of those 200,000 were originally from La.? How many of those 200,000 are immigrants moving to La.?
Just because La. is rebuilding does not mean that the level of HS football players has returned. I am not going to continue to argue with you, but I will say this. Coach Saban thought the level of La. players pre-Katrina was the best in the south, as did Coach Bowden at FSU. It has been 13 years since it happened, and New Orleans lost
opulation decrease. The population of New Orleans fell from 484,674 before Katrina (April 2000) to an estimated 230,172 after Katrina (July 2006) — a decrease of 254,502 people and a loss of over half of the city’s population.
and that is just New Orleans, not the surrounding areas....
Posted on 5/11/18 at 12:16 pm to TideFaninFl
quote:
Coach Saban thought the level of La. players pre-Katrina was the best in the south, as did Coach Bowden at FSU. It has been 13 years since it happened, and New Orleans lost
Better than Texas or Florida?Complete garbage and once again you provided nothing to back up your claim.
Do you know how many great players are in the Miami-Ft Lauderdale area alone? Or Dallas-Fort Worth along with Houston?
No doubt Louisiana has produced some high quality players and their top 10 are as good as any in the country but the numbers simply aren't there (pre Katrina) to compare with Florida and Texas
Posted on 5/11/18 at 12:59 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
Better than Texas or Florida?Complete garbage and once again you provided nothing to back up your claim.
Do you know how many great players are in the Miami-Ft Lauderdale area alone? Or Dallas-Fort Worth along with Houston?
No doubt Louisiana has produced some high quality players and their top 10 are as good as any in the country but the numbers simply aren't there (pre Katrina) to compare with Florida and Texas
While both Texas and Florida produce more players, Coach Saban thought that the State of Louisiana produce enough high quality players that he only needed to recruit the state to have a great team (he was right). Coach Bowden loved to recruit the "Bottom" area of Baton Rouge for players. In fact, Coach Saban cut Coach Bowden off when he came to LSU.
I thought we had established that California, Florida and Texas (although we could have a discussion about the readiness of the Texas recruits due to 7 on 7 camps) were prime recruiting areas, and that the discussion had narrowed down to Georgia and Louisiana, since we were talking about pre- and post- Katrina.
My apologies for confusing you.....
Posted on 5/11/18 at 1:02 pm to RD Dawg
LSU would usually get the best athletes in La that were academically eligible . Not the case with UGA.
Posted on 5/11/18 at 1:27 pm to TideFaninFl
quote:
La. players pre-Katrina was the best in the south,
These were your exact words...not confused in the least.
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