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re: CRob and Hootie Jones arrested
Posted on 5/17/16 at 10:59 am to SummerOfGeorge
Posted on 5/17/16 at 10:59 am to SummerOfGeorge
Not replying to anyone in particular, but to the mountain of folks jumping to conclusions:
1) Innocent until proven guilty. Yes, this is still true in the US. And it should be especially forward in everyone's minds given the amount of police corruption and the average quality of human that goes into police work.
2) Regarding the "facts" of the case as they now seem: From personal experience, just because a police report states something, does not mean it actually happened. Given the structure of the system, cops have a license to lie and frequently do. Personally, I highly doubt Jones had a gun on his lap when police walked up. Cops just trying to makes charges stick.
3) There are a thousand unknowns that change the situation:
Two bags of weed means nothing. It doesn't create any semblance of distribution. Two guys each had their own weed. It's common courtesy for smokers to have your own. How much weed was in each bag?
Regarding the guns, were they loaded? Were there bullets in the car for said guns? "No" to either of these questions creates a lot of wiggle room for attorneys when dealing.
How were they dressed? All black head-to-toe? Or shorts and flipflops?
Did they cooperate?
Where was the parking lot? Was it next door to where they were staying? Did they have a logical reason to be at that location?
Who does the car belong to? Were the keys even in the car, or were they just sitting there cause they couldn't smoke in the house/apt where they were staying?
4) Being awake at 2AM is not a crime, and is common practice for anyone their age. For folks that age, 2am is is their parents' generation 10pm.
5) In the evidence that I have, the least trustable entities in this situation are the police officers. The 2 arrestees have demonstrated the ability to attend a good university for a period of years and attend class, keep grades good enough to stay in school, and play a sport. Both, to my knowledge, have never been in trouble before.
I do not have the same knowledge of the police officers. All I know is that they are employed as cops, and that means nothing with regard to the quality of person. Did they go to college? They could have had charges in the past themselves. They could have been the subject of internal reprimand. Point being, in many places in the US dirty cops outnumber good cops. Just another unknown at this time.
My overall point is this. WE DON"T HAVE ALL THE FACTS AND ANYONE WHO JUMPS TO CONCLUSIONS BASED OFF OF A FEW MEDIA SNIPPETS BASED OFF SOLELY THE POLICE REPORTS ARE BEING SH!TTY HUMANS. Is it good? Nope. Should |Robinson and Jones have made different decisions? Yes. But a thousand scenarios are possible, and not one of you knows the truth.
There is no defense for one human judging another without all the facts, and any Christian who does this needs a refresher on scripture.
1) Innocent until proven guilty. Yes, this is still true in the US. And it should be especially forward in everyone's minds given the amount of police corruption and the average quality of human that goes into police work.
2) Regarding the "facts" of the case as they now seem: From personal experience, just because a police report states something, does not mean it actually happened. Given the structure of the system, cops have a license to lie and frequently do. Personally, I highly doubt Jones had a gun on his lap when police walked up. Cops just trying to makes charges stick.
3) There are a thousand unknowns that change the situation:
Two bags of weed means nothing. It doesn't create any semblance of distribution. Two guys each had their own weed. It's common courtesy for smokers to have your own. How much weed was in each bag?
Regarding the guns, were they loaded? Were there bullets in the car for said guns? "No" to either of these questions creates a lot of wiggle room for attorneys when dealing.
How were they dressed? All black head-to-toe? Or shorts and flipflops?
Did they cooperate?
Where was the parking lot? Was it next door to where they were staying? Did they have a logical reason to be at that location?
Who does the car belong to? Were the keys even in the car, or were they just sitting there cause they couldn't smoke in the house/apt where they were staying?
4) Being awake at 2AM is not a crime, and is common practice for anyone their age. For folks that age, 2am is is their parents' generation 10pm.
5) In the evidence that I have, the least trustable entities in this situation are the police officers. The 2 arrestees have demonstrated the ability to attend a good university for a period of years and attend class, keep grades good enough to stay in school, and play a sport. Both, to my knowledge, have never been in trouble before.
I do not have the same knowledge of the police officers. All I know is that they are employed as cops, and that means nothing with regard to the quality of person. Did they go to college? They could have had charges in the past themselves. They could have been the subject of internal reprimand. Point being, in many places in the US dirty cops outnumber good cops. Just another unknown at this time.
My overall point is this. WE DON"T HAVE ALL THE FACTS AND ANYONE WHO JUMPS TO CONCLUSIONS BASED OFF OF A FEW MEDIA SNIPPETS BASED OFF SOLELY THE POLICE REPORTS ARE BEING SH!TTY HUMANS. Is it good? Nope. Should |Robinson and Jones have made different decisions? Yes. But a thousand scenarios are possible, and not one of you knows the truth.
There is no defense for one human judging another without all the facts, and any Christian who does this needs a refresher on scripture.
4
Posted on 5/17/16 at 11:01 am to prevatt33
quote:
WE DON"T HAVE ALL THE FACTS AND ANYONE WHO JUMPS TO CONCLUSIONS BASED OFF OF A FEW MEDIA SNIPPETS BASED OFF SOLELY THE POLICE REPORTS ARE BEING SH!TTY HUMANS
I disagree - throwing them off the team for just that would be pretty sh*tty. However, as a human being with a brain and experience (that isn't involved in their fate) I am 100% allowed to come to my own conclusion.
Based on the evidence at this point, it is pretty cut and dry. If it changes, then I will change my opinion. But until then, it's daunting.
Posted on 5/17/16 at 11:08 am to prevatt33
You definitely have no bias against law enforcement at all. Don't care about innocent until proven guilty. UA football is a public institution that needs to be aware of public relations nightmares and head them off before they escalate. We handled Taylor very poorly last year. I'd image we would not like to go through that again. Even if all they were doing was smoking weed in a car with guns in it, they should be gone.
Posted on 5/17/16 at 11:49 am to prevatt33
Scolds entire board about jumping to conclusions, and making moral judgments about people then proceeds to say:
Look man, we get it, you recently binge-watched all of Making a Murderer and spent all night on Reddit reading the unreleased "evidence".
At the end of the day these two guys were in a car smoking weed (illegal, regardless of your opinion on the matter) with what appears to be illegal firearms. Not a good situation.
I agree that all information needs to come in before any consequences are doled out by the University or the athletic department, but this isn't a good situation.
Honest question, if these two guys weren't well known Alabama football players would you be doing the same intellectual gymnastics to find a situation in which their decisions were justifiable?
quote:
And it should be especially forward in everyone's minds given the amount of police corruption and the average quality of human that goes into police work.
Look man, we get it, you recently binge-watched all of Making a Murderer and spent all night on Reddit reading the unreleased "evidence".
At the end of the day these two guys were in a car smoking weed (illegal, regardless of your opinion on the matter) with what appears to be illegal firearms. Not a good situation.
I agree that all information needs to come in before any consequences are doled out by the University or the athletic department, but this isn't a good situation.
Honest question, if these two guys weren't well known Alabama football players would you be doing the same intellectual gymnastics to find a situation in which their decisions were justifiable?
Posted on 5/17/16 at 2:42 pm to prevatt33
quote:
1) Innocent until proven guilty. Yes, this is still true in the US. And it should be especially forward in everyone's minds given the amount of police corruption and the average quality of human that goes into police work.
Innocent until proven guilty is only applicable to the legal case. It has no relevance to his being dismissed from the team. Your allegations about law enforcement are sweeping generalizations based on personal experiences you allege to have occurred. Coming from a law enforcement family, I can tell you know very little about the world of law enforcement.
quote:
2) Regarding the "facts" of the case as they now seem: From personal experience, just because a police report states something, does not mean it actually happened. Given the structure of the system, cops have a license to lie and frequently do.
I'm sure in your personal experience you were totally innocent and did nothing to have a run in with law enforcement. The facts of this case are open and shut. What incentive do the police have to frame these people?
quote:
Two bags of weed means nothing. It doesn't create any semblance of distribution. Two guys each had their own weed. It's common courtesy for smokers to have your own. How much weed was in each bag?
Irrelevant; possession is against the law.
quote:
Regarding the guns, were they loaded? Were there bullets in the car for said guns? "No" to either of these questions creates a lot of wiggle room for attorneys when dealing.
Irrelevant, one of the guns was stolen. Amount of ammunition has no impact on the case.
quote:
Where was the parking lot? Was it next door to where they were staying? Did they have a logical reason to be at that location?
Who does the car belong to? Were the keys even in the car, or were they just sitting there cause they couldn't smoke in the house/apt where they were staying?
All irrelevant to being found with illegal substances and a stolen firearm.
quote:
How were they dressed? All black head-to-toe? Or shorts and flipflops?
Utterly irrelevant.
quote:
4) Being awake at 2AM is not a crime, and is common practice for anyone their age. For folks that age, 2am is is their parents' generation 10pm.
Patently false. I'm a current student at UA and no one I know is routinely out on the town at 2AM. Besides, no one is suggesting they are in trouble for being out at 2AM.
quote:
5) In the evidence that I have, the least trustable entities in this situation are the police officers.
You've produced absolutely no evidence.
quote:
My overall point is this. WE DON"T HAVE ALL THE FACTS AND ANYONE WHO JUMPS TO CONCLUSIONS BASED OFF OF A FEW MEDIA SNIPPETS BASED OFF SOLELY THE POLICE REPORTS ARE BEING SH!TTY HUMANS.
Your post jumps to more conclusions than any other in this thread. Robinson and Jones were found with marijuana and firearms in their possession, and you jump to the conclusion that the police either planted those items on them or are totally fabricating the story. You jump to the conclusion that your alleged experiences with police corruption in one city in Alabama implicate police officers across the country. You jump to the conclusion that, because Robinson and Jones were football players and students at a good university and had no prior offenses, they are unlikely to ever break the law.
quote:
There is no defense for one human judging another without all the facts, and any Christian who does this needs a refresher on scripture.
You seem pretty quick to judge the police officers in this case, despite not even knowing their names.
to the holier than thou parting shot.
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