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re: Winston, claims, heisman, JFF
Posted on 11/14/13 at 9:43 am to Big12fan
Posted on 11/14/13 at 9:43 am to Big12fan
What an indictment on Texas football and the big 12 in general.
As a horn fan, you're on a SEC message board advocating (poorly) for why JFF shouldn't win and why a Baylor QB should. I understand Baylor is basically all the Big 12 has going for it. But at least have some self respect.
As a horn fan, you're on a SEC message board advocating (poorly) for why JFF shouldn't win and why a Baylor QB should. I understand Baylor is basically all the Big 12 has going for it. But at least have some self respect.
This post was edited on 11/14/13 at 9:44 am
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Posted on 11/14/13 at 9:50 am to Big12fan
Bryce Petty? Wake me up when he has better stats than the other all time Baylor great Nick Florence from last year. It is no coincidence that Baylor has had a QB put up huge stats every year since Briles arrived and it isn't because they have all been great QB's (RGIII aside).
Mariota isn't out but he is definitely down and needs Manziel/Winston to stumble now in order to win. All eyes were on him for the big game with Stanford (just as they were Manziel with Bama) and he laid a huge turd. He was very exposed against Stanford and almost got shutout. Folks expect Heisman winners to come up big in big games and that game is likely too big of an albatross for Mariota to overcome and he doesn't have any more games left to play that the nation will be watching.
Manziel needs to win these next 2 or if he loses one he needs to have a Bama like performance if he wants to win. The talking heads seemed to have circled back to him again lately with his stats and seeing some of his latest highlights. It's just hard to deny he is the best player in CFB and that is a big feather in his cap.
Winston is the favorite but this scandal could be the end for him. Rape allegations are going to turn a LOT of voters off even if they are proven untrue (unless it is completely made up). His play has also dropped off since earlier in the season and it is apparent that FSU's defense and RB's are just as key to their winning as Winston. For instance in their last game against Wake FSU destroyed them but Winston was 17/28 for only 159 yards with 2 TD's and a pick. That's less than 10 yards per completion against a horrific Wake team. He still has a few notable games left but it hurts him that UF is a DF right now and he is unlikely to get a decent opponent in the ACC Championship game.
We shall see, still a lot of football left to play.
Mariota isn't out but he is definitely down and needs Manziel/Winston to stumble now in order to win. All eyes were on him for the big game with Stanford (just as they were Manziel with Bama) and he laid a huge turd. He was very exposed against Stanford and almost got shutout. Folks expect Heisman winners to come up big in big games and that game is likely too big of an albatross for Mariota to overcome and he doesn't have any more games left to play that the nation will be watching.
Manziel needs to win these next 2 or if he loses one he needs to have a Bama like performance if he wants to win. The talking heads seemed to have circled back to him again lately with his stats and seeing some of his latest highlights. It's just hard to deny he is the best player in CFB and that is a big feather in his cap.
Winston is the favorite but this scandal could be the end for him. Rape allegations are going to turn a LOT of voters off even if they are proven untrue (unless it is completely made up). His play has also dropped off since earlier in the season and it is apparent that FSU's defense and RB's are just as key to their winning as Winston. For instance in their last game against Wake FSU destroyed them but Winston was 17/28 for only 159 yards with 2 TD's and a pick. That's less than 10 yards per completion against a horrific Wake team. He still has a few notable games left but it hurts him that UF is a DF right now and he is unlikely to get a decent opponent in the ACC Championship game.
We shall see, still a lot of football left to play.
Posted on 11/14/13 at 9:57 am to CowsGoBark
People are really looking past Mett's candidacy. He has the second highest QB rating in the SEC. Only Manziel has a higher rating, and nobody wants to vote for that douche. Also, Connor Shaw has only thrown one interception all year, and has his team poised to probably win the East. So, really, it's either Mett or Shaw.
Posted on 11/14/13 at 10:42 am to Big12fan
quote:
JFF's integrity is certainly questionable considering his off the field actions and the fact that he's already profited off his celebrity status with the autograph brokers, along with other off-field behavior which is well known and with behavior which is not well known (appetite for nose candy).
Baylor's Brice Petty has a higher QB rating, has thrown for only 1 int all year and has no losses. JFF on the other hand has 2 home losses where his decision making on the field was a major contribution to both losses.
I think he was cleared by the NCAA about the autographs. Doesn't matter if you agree with their findings or not....he was cleared. Non factor.
As for MOST of the rest of your charges (nose candy) those are just speculation. haven't even heard about them. you don't vote against someone based upon speculation. The other stuff? Manning camp, etc? I don't think that goes to integrity. You can call it work ethic, if you want, but not integrity.
As for the Baylor QBs ratings? All against much inferior competition. Let's see if he holds up against a bit tougher competition over the next 3 weeks or so. Still not LSU or Alabama competition, but better than he has faced.
That said, we can only wait and see if the voters take into account Manziel's actions off the field. he has certainly made a strong case for himself ON the field.
Posted on 11/14/13 at 10:48 am to evan_aggie
quote:
The defense is awful, and Manziel has to try to make every play he can and has forced a few passes. That is his fault, agreed.
The defense being bad does not make Manziel make poor decisions because he is carrying the team. he has plenty of weapons and A&M can score ina variety of ways.
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Put Winston in Manziel's spot at QB and they lose to Ole Miss.
Not sure what you base this on, but a case could be they would have beaten Auburn if Winston was in Manziel's place just as easy. And I am NOT a Winston fan, either. I don't mind him, I just don't know enough about him.
quote:
I think Manziel needs to come out and have good games against both LSU and Mizzou to cap off his year.
If he has big games against LSU and Missouri, he could nail down the Heisman. Should be fun to watch.
Posted on 11/14/13 at 10:50 am to aggressor
quote:
Mariota isn't out but he is definitely down and needs Manziel/Winston to stumble now in order to win.
I can agree with this. And it won't be easy for Mariota because of his schedule. It looks pretty weak. Could be the best thing that has happened to manziel is Missouri haveing a good year. If he does well, it could be a big factor in the voting. I think he has a VERY big game against Missouri. The LSU will be interesting, since they shut him down last year.
Posted on 11/14/13 at 11:07 am to piggilicious
From this voter's perspective:
Johnny won't get my vote
There are voters out there like this guy who will not vote for him.
Johnny won't get my vote
There are voters out there like this guy who will not vote for him.
Posted on 11/14/13 at 11:12 am to evan_aggie
Here's what some say about stats:
Role of Stats for Heisman
Role of Stats for Heisman
quote:
the player who wins the Heisman usually isn’t the season’s stat king, but the player who best exemplifies the spirit of that particular college football season. That’s what the voters are looking for, even if most don’t really know it deep down.
quote:
If numbers really did tell us everything, Texas Tech would have five Heismans by now and Kliff Kingsbury would be a college football legend for reasons other than his impeccably-manicured facial hair.
Posted on 11/14/13 at 11:17 am to Maxx99
Manziel has the most passing yards and TD's of the candidates.
The other candidates haven't played NEARLY the caliber of defenses Manziel has faced.
Case closed!
The other candidates haven't played NEARLY the caliber of defenses Manziel has faced.
Case closed!
Posted on 11/14/13 at 11:20 am to evan_aggie
quote:
Manziel
quote:
It's not like that stats support that claim or anything...
Sure you have some "pretty" stats to show but stats shouldn't be the sole factor in the Heisman. I know many of the voters see it that way but you have to understand WINNING your games, in particular a head to head match up against another candidate, should be factored in to the equation. Furthermore, I would look at who makes the most of what opportunities they have. Alabama has a balanced attack, plays a slower pace, with a good defense. aTm has a poor defense and what happens in their games obviously is both teams in the aTm games just run up and down the field all day back and forth. That's how you get those crazy numbers built up.
Let's look at California. Now there's a great example of a team with a lot of stats but nothing to show for it. Their QB Goff has 3,141 yards passing. They have the 8th best passing attack in the country. Should we stop there and talk about what a great set of stats they have and how awesome their QB is for putting up those big numbers? Why Hell no. They get destroyed in just about every game and all they can do is throw the ball because they get behind so big. I'm sure a lot of their stats come from their opponents' defense starting prevent defense in the 3rd quarter. They have 1 win against Portland State. So my question is, should we not look beyond raw stats when determining the Heisman? Those stats sure can be misleading! Just some food for thought...
This post was edited on 11/14/13 at 11:21 am
Posted on 11/14/13 at 11:28 am to Maroon Flash
Unrustle thy jimmies. I'm not saying he won't win it again. Just pointing out that this endless intoning of stats isn't the end-all for most voters.
Posted on 11/14/13 at 11:28 am to Maxx99
quote:
Here's what some say about stats:
Role of Stats for Heisman
quote:
the player who wins the Heisman usually isn’t the season’s stat king, but the player who best exemplifies the spirit of that particular college football season. That’s what the voters are looking for, even if most don’t really know it deep down.
quote:
If numbers really did tell us everything, Texas Tech would have five Heismans by now and Kliff Kingsbury would be a college football legend for reasons other than his impeccably-manicured facial hair.
Possibly so, but the winner is usually near the top in the stats. When a stat leader does not win, it is usually because of the competition he played against. Remember, I said USUALLY.
This post was edited on 11/14/13 at 11:29 am
Posted on 11/14/13 at 11:30 am to Maroon Flash
quote:
Manziel has the most passing yards and TD's of the candidates.
The other candidates haven't played NEARLY the caliber of defenses Manziel has faced.
Case closed!
Personally, I agree with this. but some will not vote for him. I would say there are still 3-4 players still in the hunt, because of stuff Manziel has done off the field. fair? maybe...maybe not.
Posted on 11/14/13 at 11:48 am to DawgsLife
Let me amend what I said earlier and add this about the subject. I noted some have the sentiment, which is valid, regarding who has a Heisman candidate played. I said stats should not be the sole determining factor. They should play a role, no doubt. I also noted winning your games should play a role as well. I will likewise add the competition factor. Let's look at that for a moment...if JUST stats and winning were factors then Jordan Lynch should be right at the top for Heisman BUT that's why I would like to mention the competition part of the equation. I would also say there are some intangible items like the character of the candidate or dare I say body of work when mixed in with all the other factors in a really close competition.
Anyway, in a nutshell I just want to point out that stats should be one of several factors involved in voting for the Heisman and determining the "best player" should go deeper than just flashy numbers.
Anyway, in a nutshell I just want to point out that stats should be one of several factors involved in voting for the Heisman and determining the "best player" should go deeper than just flashy numbers.
This post was edited on 11/14/13 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 11/14/13 at 12:24 pm to Maxx99
quote:
There are voters out there like this guy who will not vote for him.
Yep. The guy you linked took this stance once before:
quote:
I am not voting for Manziel for the same reason I didn't vote for Cam Newton a couple of years ago. Newton was a college player who fled the University of Florida amid allegations of academic fraud and after he was found with a stolen laptop computer and threw it out the window when police arrived. He was a player whose recruitment was investigated by the NCAA and the FBI after his father reportedly tried to sell his son's services to the highest bidder. Newton, of course, won the Heisman in a landslide despite the lack-of-integrity hat trick (legal issues, academic issues, NCAA issues) during his college career.
Amazingly, those of us who left Newton off of our ballots back then became pariahs and were chastised by ESPN personalities such as Mel Kiper Jr. and Paul Finebaum. Kiper actually said those who didn't vote for Newton should be stripped of their ballots.
How did that work out?
Posted on 11/14/13 at 12:58 pm to Hugh McElroy
quote:
Let's look at California.
They are 94th in scoring offense. If they were top 10 with the 8th best passing attack, they wouldn't have only 1 win.
Also, let's not beat around the bush: there is only so much a player can do to overcome the lack of a defense. We don't have an average defense, or even a little bit below average defense. We have a bottom 25 defense.
This post was edited on 11/14/13 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 11/14/13 at 1:50 pm to Hugh McElroy
This just in:
Merely pointing out that things other than stats matter to voters.
Winston's Light Workload
Can you imagine JW stats if he was in for the entire game week in and week out? Can you imagine his stats if he could actually SEE?
JM had to stay in to fend off State. D plays like shite so he gets more playing time. You think voters don't notice that?
quote:
I'm not saying he won't win it again.
Merely pointing out that things other than stats matter to voters.
Winston's Light Workload
quote:
Indeed, Winston's recent outings have been brief, and in two of his last three games, he took a seat on the bench after just one drive in the third quarter.
quote:
Winston's numbers through nine games more than warrant his status as favorite for the honor, but his workload doesn't exactly provide opportunities to pad his stats.
Can you imagine JW stats if he was in for the entire game week in and week out? Can you imagine his stats if he could actually SEE?
JM had to stay in to fend off State. D plays like shite so he gets more playing time. You think voters don't notice that?
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