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re: Notre Dame's defense/special teams: A detailed look
Posted on 12/20/12 at 10:12 pm to pvilleguru
Posted on 12/20/12 at 10:12 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
Mosley > Te'o
Amen
0
Posted on 12/20/12 at 10:29 pm to Buckeye Fan 19
quote:
DL is ND for sure. Probably LBs, but definitely debatable. Maybe WRs if you include Eifert for ND.
We'll just agree to disagree on those positions. Setting aside the ones you say are debatable and giving you the DL as you claim, that means you would agree that Bama is superior in 5 of the 6 areas of the game. Not sure you ever indicated, but I take it you think Bama is going to win the game too then?
Posted on 12/20/12 at 11:53 pm to reedus23
quote:
We'll just agree to disagree on those positions. Setting aside the ones you say are debatable and giving you the DL as you claim, that means you would agree that Bama is superior in 5 of the 6 areas of the game. Not sure you ever indicated, but I take it you think Bama is going to win the game too then?
No, because it's not that simple. You're comparing the same units, not units against each other. The OL never goes against the other team's OL, they go against the opposite DL. And it doesn't take into account specific matchups. And finally, not all position groups are equal. The performance of the DL is probably more important than the performance of the RBs, for example.
Do I think the Bama OL is greater than the ND OL? Yes (but ND's is also good). I also think the ND front 7 is better than Bama's (but Bama's is also good). And again, they don't play against each other. Which group is more likely to have success against the other? I think both defenses will be able to have success against the run, but think ND will have more. Is Bama's secondary better than ND's? Yes, but ND's is also good and the gap is close, and if ND can stop the run, Bama won't have success in the air, because the ND safeties will play deep. Even if McCarron is traditionally "better" than Golson, which I agree he is, Bama's sole loss came against a QB that could run. Golson provides that threat, McCarron does not. And of course you add the underdog mindset from ND. There are so many factors beyond just saying Bama has more position units better than ND, that means they'll win.
Posted on 12/20/12 at 11:55 pm to Buckeye Fan 19
quote:
ND's base is a 3-4,
quote:
In a 3-4, most consider the nose tackle the most important player on the defense, especially against a run-heavy offense.
You do realize that Bama put up 865 yards rushing against the best 3-4 defense in the country vs UGA in the SEC CG, don't you?
Posted on 12/21/12 at 12:02 am to deeprig9
quote:
You do realize that Bama put up 865 yards rushing against the best 3-4 defense in the country vs UGA in the SEC CG, don't you?
Sarcasm? UGA's defense isn't in the top 25 in the country. Its rushing defense is 77th. It's not even in the same ballpark as ND's.
This post was edited on 12/21/12 at 12:03 am
Posted on 12/21/12 at 12:11 am to Buckeye Fan 19
The rushing defense rating takes into account the 892 yards that Bama put on them.
There are few who will disagree that 7 of 11 of UGA's defensive starters will be playing in the NFL next year.
Leverage all the stats you want, whatever makes you feel good.
Notre Dame will be outclassed.
This post about ND's defense is strong, you do have a good defense.
You will not stop Lacy nor Yeldon. And McCarron has shown that he can sew a button when need be.
Instead of posting your opinions, how about 1-1 matchups with height, weight, and speed.
Bama annihilates you. Even with 3 McCarron sacks.
There are few who will disagree that 7 of 11 of UGA's defensive starters will be playing in the NFL next year.
Leverage all the stats you want, whatever makes you feel good.
Notre Dame will be outclassed.
This post about ND's defense is strong, you do have a good defense.
You will not stop Lacy nor Yeldon. And McCarron has shown that he can sew a button when need be.
Instead of posting your opinions, how about 1-1 matchups with height, weight, and speed.
Bama annihilates you. Even with 3 McCarron sacks.
Posted on 12/21/12 at 12:37 am to deeprig9
quote:
The rushing defense rating takes into account the 892 yards that Bama put on them.
You were in the 60s before the Bama game. You gave up more than 300 to Georgia Southern and more than 200 to Kentucky, among other poor performances. Once again, not in the same ballpark.
quote:
There are few who will disagree that 7 of 11 of UGA's defensive starters will be playing in the NFL next year.
ND has three likely top-15 picks (two in the 2014 draft) in its front seven, so really not sure what your point is. One CB will probably go in the second round next year. Another OLB will probably go third round. A starting safety is projected to go in the fourth or fifth round this year. Two of the other secondary starters are playing their first season so they have a while to go, but both will likely be drafted. It's a legitimate possibility 10 of ND's 11 current starters on D will eventually be drafted. Awesome, you have some NFL talent. So does ND. Probably more, actually (not that NFL prospects really makes a difference in college anyway).
This post was edited on 12/21/12 at 12:38 am
Posted on 12/21/12 at 2:52 am to Buckeye Fan 19
quote:
Is Bama's secondary better than ND's? Yes, but ND's is also good and the gap is close
How many All-Americans and/or first round draft picks does the ND secondary have?
Posted on 12/21/12 at 8:45 am to Buckeye Fan 19
quote:
No, because it's not that simple. You're comparing the same units, not units against each other. The OL never goes against the other team's OL, they go against the opposite DL. And it doesn't take into account specific matchups. And finally, not all position groups are equal. The performance of the DL is probably more important than the performance of the RBs, for example.
Do I think the Bama OL is greater than the ND OL? Yes (but ND's is also good). I also think the ND front 7 is better than Bama's (but Bama's is also good). And again, they don't play against each other. Which group is more likely to have success against the other? I think both defenses will be able to have success against the run, but think ND will have more. Is Bama's secondary better than ND's? Yes, but ND's is also good and the gap is close, and if ND can stop the run, Bama won't have success in the air, because the ND safeties will play deep. Even if McCarron is traditionally "better" than Golson, which I agree he is, Bama's sole loss came against a QB that could run. Golson provides that threat, McCarron does not. And of course you add the underdog mindset from ND. There are so many factors beyond just saying Bama has more position units better than ND, that means they'll win.
So Bama won't be able to run or throw the ball and we are putting Golson and JFF in the same sentence? You're right, if Bama doesn't cross the 50 and Golson turns into a heisman winner, Bama is screwed. Don't see that happening so I think I'll keep my money on the team that, by your own words, is the better team.
Posted on 12/21/12 at 8:51 am to Buckeye Fan 19
I'll take Bama's OL vs. ND's DL all day.
And please play your safeties deep. Most of our passes are shorter than 15 yards.
And please play your safeties deep. Most of our passes are shorter than 15 yards.
This post was edited on 12/21/12 at 8:53 am
Posted on 12/21/12 at 8:55 am to reedus23
quote:
But it wasn't just crappy teams. Had it been then okay, maybe you're right. But ND also beat a very good Stanford team. ND beat a very good OU team on the road by 17 and a solid Michigan team.
Didn't Bama destroy Michigan
Posted on 12/21/12 at 10:09 am to Buckeye Fan 19
Nobody is saying ND's defense is putrid. They are good, but again, part of that is because of the teams they played.
If you want to compare units facing each other, there are probably at least 3 players on Bama's Oline I would take on the Rams right now (or in the next draft). You haven't faced any teams like that yet this year. Yeldon and Lacy are beasts. A.J. will pick you apart if you're giving him 5-10 yard underneath routes.
Now flip it, ND's offense is average to below average. On the other side, Bama's D is above average.
If you want to compare units facing each other, there are probably at least 3 players on Bama's Oline I would take on the Rams right now (or in the next draft). You haven't faced any teams like that yet this year. Yeldon and Lacy are beasts. A.J. will pick you apart if you're giving him 5-10 yard underneath routes.
Now flip it, ND's offense is average to below average. On the other side, Bama's D is above average.
Posted on 12/21/12 at 12:28 pm to reedus23
On offense, ND is 75th in points/game and Alabama is 15th. Bama by a wide margin. End of story.
On defense, ND is 20th (194.8 yds/game) against the pass and Alabama is 6th (166.2yds/game). ND is 5th against the run (93.3 yds/game) and Bama is 1st (79.8 yds/game). ND is 1st (10.3) in points/game and Alabama is 2nd (10.7).
Bama is superior against the run and the pass. About a dead heat on points/game, so I took a look at the offenses that these defenses were shutting down. I took out Western Carolina to avoid giving Bama an advantage and to keep both at 12 games(Sorry Bama, you just switched out Western Carolina for Georgia). Here's their opponents offensive ranks based on points/game:
ND --- Bama
13 --- 3
37 --- 19
44 --- 23
58 --- 50
59 --- 56
66 --- 57
71 --- 58
74 --- 68
86 --- 82
109 --- 91
111 --- 107
116 --- 115 (Auburn)
Average Opponent Rank:
70.33 --- 60.75
So what's that tell you? Their common opponent, Michigan, was ND's 4th toughest based on these stats but only Bama's 7th toughest. Bama's defense was better this year and did it against better offensive teams in terms of scoring, running and throwing the ball. That's partly what I mean when I say ND is a product of their schedule. Nice numbers, but the same or better numbers while playing better teams is, well, better.
Notre Dame fricked!
On defense, ND is 20th (194.8 yds/game) against the pass and Alabama is 6th (166.2yds/game). ND is 5th against the run (93.3 yds/game) and Bama is 1st (79.8 yds/game). ND is 1st (10.3) in points/game and Alabama is 2nd (10.7).
Bama is superior against the run and the pass. About a dead heat on points/game, so I took a look at the offenses that these defenses were shutting down. I took out Western Carolina to avoid giving Bama an advantage and to keep both at 12 games(Sorry Bama, you just switched out Western Carolina for Georgia). Here's their opponents offensive ranks based on points/game:
ND --- Bama
13 --- 3
37 --- 19
44 --- 23
58 --- 50
59 --- 56
66 --- 57
71 --- 58
74 --- 68
86 --- 82
109 --- 91
111 --- 107
116 --- 115 (Auburn)
Average Opponent Rank:
70.33 --- 60.75
So what's that tell you? Their common opponent, Michigan, was ND's 4th toughest based on these stats but only Bama's 7th toughest. Bama's defense was better this year and did it against better offensive teams in terms of scoring, running and throwing the ball. That's partly what I mean when I say ND is a product of their schedule. Nice numbers, but the same or better numbers while playing better teams is, well, better.
Notre Dame fricked!
Posted on 12/21/12 at 12:33 pm to reedus23
quote:
On offense, ND is 75th in points/game and Alabama is 15th. Bama by a wide margin. End of story. On defense, ND is 20th (194.8 yds/game) against the pass and Alabama is 6th (166.2yds/game). ND is 5th against the run (93.3 yds/game) and Bama is 1st (79.8 yds/game). ND is 1st (10.3) in points/game and Alabama is 2nd (10.7). Bama is superior against the run and the pass. About a dead heat on points/game, so I took a look at the offenses that these defenses were shutting down. I took out Western Carolina to avoid giving Bama an advantage and to keep both at 12 games(Sorry Bama, you just switched out Western Carolina for Georgia). Here's their opponents offensive ranks based on points/game: ND --- Bama 13 --- 3 37 --- 19 44 --- 23 58 --- 50 59 --- 56 66 --- 57 71 --- 58 74 --- 68 86 --- 82 109 --- 91 111 --- 107 116 --- 115 (Auburn) Average Opponent Rank: 70.33 --- 60.75 So what's that tell you? Their common opponent, Michigan, was ND's 4th toughest based on these stats but only Bama's 7th toughest. Bama's defense was better this year and did it against better offensive teams in terms of scoring, running and throwing the ball. That's partly what I mean when I say ND is a product of their schedule. Nice numbers, but the same or better numbers while playing better teams is, well, better. Notre Dame fricked!
yep
Posted on 12/21/12 at 12:59 pm to narddogg81
I have listened to far fewer words than the OP stated and still got sex at the end.....
Posted on 12/21/12 at 1:07 pm to Buckeye Fan 19
quote:
Here's the thread about ND's offense from Monday
Bottom Line: Bama will know a frick-hole in ND in about 2 weeks. Game will be interesting for about 6 minutes...then it will start to happen. BOOK IT! In short, Florida, LSU, Georgia could all easily do the same.....
Posted on 12/21/12 at 3:19 pm to reedus23
quote:
On defense, ND is 20th (194.8 yds/game) against the pass and Alabama is 6th (166.2yds/game).
Opponents average 5.75 yards per pass attempt against ND and 5.99 against Bama. They average 11.03 per completion against Bama and 9.68 against ND (which I actually didn't realize is the lowest in the country). Basically, ND has allowed more passing yards per game just because opponents throw more against ND than opponents throw against Bama.
quote:
so I took a look at the offenses that these defenses were shutting down. I took out Western Carolina to avoid giving Bama an advantage and to keep both at 12 games(Sorry Bama, you just switched out Western Carolina for Georgia)
First, though you took them out when comparing opponents, you didn't take out Western Carolina in Alabama's stats (not that I blame you since it would have required lots of work). A 1-10 team in FCS. That significantly helped Bama's stats, since they held them to 163 yards and no points.
But beyond that, your point is wrong anyway, because you said taking out Western Carolina and adding Georgia doesn't give an advantage to Bama in this discussion, but IT DOES. Bama's average opponent ranking would shoot up significantly from the 60.75 it's at now as far as opponent scoring offenses is concerned. And finally, you also looked at scoring offense, when looking at total offense, here are the stats (again without Western Carolina which HELPS Bama in this discussion):
ND -- Bama:
11 -- 3
28 -- 19
38 -- 27
56 -- 46
59 -- 52
61 -- 71
79 -- 77
80 -- 78
83 -- 80
89 -- 96
98 -- 97
117 -- 115
Avg:
66.58 -- 63.42
Not much of a difference (and with Western Carolina, Bama's average would probably move above ND's. If we'd give WCU a ranking of 100 [which I think is very generous for a 1-10 FCS team], Bama's average moves to 66.23, virtually no difference between the two teams).
quote:
On offense, ND is 75th in points/game and Alabama is 15th. Bama by a wide margin. End of story.
Total offense is much closer, with Bama at 40 and ND at 49, and less than 20 yards apart. In addition, here are the total defenses (without Western Carolina, which again helps Bama) each faced:
ND -- Bama
3 -- 8
4 -- 11
11 -- 23
16 -- 27
21 -- 49
44 -- 56
55 -- 58
63 -- 59
70 -- 69
88 -- 72
101 -- 80
116 -- 109
Avg.
49.33 -- 51.75
So there is not much difference. If we add WCU and give a 100 (again, very generous) Bama's moves up to 55.46, more than an average of six spots greater than ND, which starts to be significant.
Scoring defenses:
ND -- Bama
5 -- 11
10 -- 16
14 -- 17
16 -- 28
21 -- 30
31 -- 51
43 -- 64
45 -- 66
71 -- 67
74 -- 81
82 -- 85
91 -- 106
Avg.
41.92 -- 51.83
Big difference. Western Carolina allows an average of 41 points per game against a predominantly FCS schedule. If they were FBS, that'd put them at 118th in the country. I think a ranking of 121, last in FBS, would be fair here, but I'll again be generous and give them 118, Bama's average moves up to 56.92, an average difference of 15 spots compared to ND, which is huge.
Basically, there is not much of a difference between the total offenses and defenses each team faced. ND faced much tougher scoring defenses, Bama faced tougher scoring offenses. The total offenses and defenses of Bama and ND are nearly equal, slight edge to Bama in each category.
What this says is ND can move the ball, but can't score in the redzone (which we knew), but also faced defenses that seem to be tougher in the redzone than what Bama faced (since the total defenses are about the same, but ND's scoring defenses faced are tougher). We also knew ND is better in redzone D than Bama, but part of that might be because of offenses faced.
Posted on 12/21/12 at 3:25 pm to reedus23
quote:
ND wouldn't be playing in a BCS bowl much less in the BCSCG if they had to play the rigors of an SEC schedule
this
:NDYGGR:
Posted on 12/21/12 at 3:43 pm to Buckeye Fan 19
Notre Dame has a nice D, until Jan. 7. Bama will run the ball at will until ND stacks the box then Cooper will burn the ND defense in man coverage. That combined with Bama's D shutting down the ND rushing game and forcing the ND QB to beat Bama through the air, which with Bama's speed on defense and pass rush, will lead to 2-3 INTs.
Bama 28-10.
Bama 28-10.
Posted on 12/21/12 at 3:56 pm to Buckeye Fan 19
You missed the point. You can twist ND's and Bama's numbers around any way you want but the point wasn't as much there numbers as who they got those numbers against. ND got their numbers playing a parochial schedule while Bama got their numbers while playing an AAU schedule.
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