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Arkansas Fans. Who Was the Real Villain in Hatfield vs. Broyles?
Posted on 12/13/24 at 7:04 pm
Posted on 12/13/24 at 7:04 pm
Hatfield left for Clemson at the peak of success at Arkansas, 2 consecutive SWC championships and 5 straight seasons with 9 or more wins. He had three 10 wins seasons during that five years, the same number Arkansas has had in the past 35 years. Do Arkansas fans blame him or Broyles? And how would the program history have played out if he had stayed?
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Posted on 12/13/24 at 7:23 pm to captdalton
As a fan during that period I remember each year being able to pencil in at least 8 wins each season due to swc competition.
There was no internet back then but fans were disgruntled because Ken’s flexbone offense had a ceiling where he could beat the teams he was supposed to beat but got beat/ hammered by quality teams.
People wanted him to incorporate passing into the offense but he wasn’t on board with that and when Frank tried to address that he bolted. That’s the best I can remember it.
Jack crow was brought in as offensive coordinator to try to help the passing problems and was promoted when Hatfield left. Frank didn’t want Hatfield gone but Hatfield didn’t want to change.
The best thing for Hatfield was the internet wasn’t in use back then or he would have gotten the Nutt treatment.
These are just what I remember from back then and take it for what it’s worth.
There was no internet back then but fans were disgruntled because Ken’s flexbone offense had a ceiling where he could beat the teams he was supposed to beat but got beat/ hammered by quality teams.
People wanted him to incorporate passing into the offense but he wasn’t on board with that and when Frank tried to address that he bolted. That’s the best I can remember it.
Jack crow was brought in as offensive coordinator to try to help the passing problems and was promoted when Hatfield left. Frank didn’t want Hatfield gone but Hatfield didn’t want to change.
The best thing for Hatfield was the internet wasn’t in use back then or he would have gotten the Nutt treatment.
These are just what I remember from back then and take it for what it’s worth.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 7:24 pm to captdalton
Hatfield was short sighted in he wanted to stay in the dying SWC. Broyales was playing chess while Hatfield was playing checkers
Posted on 12/13/24 at 7:45 pm to swinetime
So it sounds like Arkansas ran off their most successful coach in at least the last 40 years, an Arkansas alum who played on their ‘64 team, because he just wasn’t quite good enough or smart enough for Arkansas? That is the way a couple of the replies read.
I always thought he left because Broyles was meddling, trying to be both AD and head coach, and Hatfield said the hell with it.
I see Broyles as being in the wrong. It seems similar to Alabama, where AD Bockrath’s and president Sorensen’s meddling compelled Stallings to resign abruptly, which led to over a decade of Alabama wandering in the desert.
I always thought he left because Broyles was meddling, trying to be both AD and head coach, and Hatfield said the hell with it.
I see Broyles as being in the wrong. It seems similar to Alabama, where AD Bockrath’s and president Sorensen’s meddling compelled Stallings to resign abruptly, which led to over a decade of Alabama wandering in the desert.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 7:58 pm to captdalton
quote:
So it sounds like Arkansas ran off their most successful coach in at least the last 40 years, an Arkansas alum who played on their ‘64 team, because he just wasn’t quite good enough or smart enough for Arkansas? That is the way a couple of the replies read.
He wasn’t ran off by anyone but himself. He wouldn’t adjust to the changing climate of college football, like Saban did, and chose to leave on his own. No one saw that coming including Broyles who was left with having to promote Crow to head coach which is a move he never did before or since.
Ole Ken gave us the middle finger and hauled arse. No one hates him though, he’s a good man.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 8:00 pm to Clark14
I remember it pretty much that way as well.
I remember duck hunting at our family lodge on Maddox Bay (I was a grown man at the time in my 30s) and listening to my Dad and his brothers (5 Memphis boys) talking about this and debating it.
Broyles was a god in Fayetteville. Hatfield had a big ego ... on a narcissistic scale, which Clemson fans soon found out was unbearable.
What happened at Clemson justified what Broyles did to him at Arkansas imho.
Now, the Holtz vs Frank issue is a completely different horse of another color imho.
I remember duck hunting at our family lodge on Maddox Bay (I was a grown man at the time in my 30s) and listening to my Dad and his brothers (5 Memphis boys) talking about this and debating it.
Broyles was a god in Fayetteville. Hatfield had a big ego ... on a narcissistic scale, which Clemson fans soon found out was unbearable.
What happened at Clemson justified what Broyles did to him at Arkansas imho.
Now, the Holtz vs Frank issue is a completely different horse of another color imho.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 8:10 pm to scrooster
quote:
Now, the Holtz vs Frank issue is a completely different horse of another color imho.
From what I understand it came down to Holtz using his coaching position to promote an unpopular political figure in n Carolina and that led to his dismissal. But it was heresay back then so …….
Posted on 12/13/24 at 8:12 pm to scrooster
Broyles as AD certainly seemed to have a very rocky relationship with Arkansas’ head football coaches.
Lou Holtz Let’s Go of Anger After Firing
Lou Holtz Let’s Go of Anger After Firing
Posted on 12/13/24 at 8:24 pm to scrooster
quote:
Hatfield had a big ego ... on a narcissistic scale, which Clemson fans soon found out was unbearable.
He was 32-13-1 after the 93 season and they wouldn't extend him an extra year. He won them their last ACC title for over 2 decades, even after the sanctions imposed post-Danny Ford. I don't understand the hatred Clemson people have for the man.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 8:40 pm to scrooster
[quote]Now, the Holtz vs Frank issue is a completely different horse of another color imho.[/quote ]Fayetteville in 1980 was not big enough for two egos the size of Uncle Frank and Lou Holtz. Frank was an icon doing college football games next to Keith Jackson. Holtz going on Johnny Carson, without Broyles knowing in advance, was too much for Frank. The Jesse Helms commercial\endorsement was just a side note.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 8:42 pm to SCLibertarian
It is weird the way a fanbase can remember a coach.
I find Ken Hatfield at Arkansas to be very interesting. He has the highest winning percentage of any Arkansas head coach in history. The best of their 37 head coaches. At .760, he was better than Broyles (.708), Holtz (.735), Nutt (.620), or Petrino (.667).
Despite this, he seems to be disliked or even hated by Arkansas fans. Every Arkansas fan in this thread has spoken poorly of him. It is strange. Is it because Broyles is so revered that Hog fans feel they have to demonize the coaches he forced out?
I get Hatfield may not have had the best personality. But he won at Air Force, then Arkansas, then Clemson and did much better at Rice than most other coaches (he had the third highest winning percentage of their last 12 coaches). He may have been an a-hole, but he won. And usually that is ultimately what matters.
I find Ken Hatfield at Arkansas to be very interesting. He has the highest winning percentage of any Arkansas head coach in history. The best of their 37 head coaches. At .760, he was better than Broyles (.708), Holtz (.735), Nutt (.620), or Petrino (.667).
Despite this, he seems to be disliked or even hated by Arkansas fans. Every Arkansas fan in this thread has spoken poorly of him. It is strange. Is it because Broyles is so revered that Hog fans feel they have to demonize the coaches he forced out?
I get Hatfield may not have had the best personality. But he won at Air Force, then Arkansas, then Clemson and did much better at Rice than most other coaches (he had the third highest winning percentage of their last 12 coaches). He may have been an a-hole, but he won. And usually that is ultimately what matters.
This post was edited on 12/13/24 at 8:48 pm
Posted on 12/13/24 at 9:20 pm to captdalton
quote:
Broyles as AD certainly seemed to have a very rocky relationship with Arkansas’ head football coaches.
Lest we forget that Lou knew Faust's days were numbered at ND and he has turned down an extension Broyles offered him after the loss to UTa in Little Rock ... I wanna say it was Arkansas' only loss that season. When Lou turned him down Frank accused him of using Arkansas as a buffer job until the Notre Dame job came open. Frank wasn't having any of that ... he loved his Razorbacks.
The rest is history. One of the craziest and most unexpected series of events in CFB history ensued.
The Jesse Helms stump speech was just a smoke screen. Holtz and Helms had been friends since Holtz's NC State days and Lou has always been a staunch Conservative Republican ... he also did it as a favor to Reagan.
Holtz took the Minnesota job with an easy out clause to take the ND job ... which Faust later claimed usurped his standing at ND. One year at Minnesota and Holtz got his dream job in South Bend.
Broyles and Holtz never spoke again. They avoided one another like the plague from '99-'04.
It gets even better than that as Broyles wanted the score run-up on Holtz at SC ... but when Holtz had the oppotunity to respond in kind he called off the dogs.
I liked Frank Broyles a lot. I love Lou Holtz. He's not doing very well right now, but he's hanging in there. He said some nice things about Coach Broyles when Frank passed away.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 9:22 pm to captdalton
quote:
Despite this, he seems to be disliked or even hated by Arkansas fans. Every Arkansas fan in this thread has spoken poorly of him. It is strange. Is it because Broyles is so revered that Hog fans feel they have to demonize the coaches he forced out?
You have no clue what you’re talking about. Hatfield isn’t hated in Arkansas and no one speaks badly about him. Ken moved back to nw Arkansas in 2005 and has lived there since.
Stop making ignorant shite up to make yourself feel better.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 9:33 pm to captdalton
I met Ken Hatfield in real life and he played with my uncle in high school at Helena, Arkansa. One of the nicest individuals you will ever meet.
Hatfield left in his own words because of Broyles. Not good to run off a coach with the highest winning percentage in program history. Did they pay the price though and still are.
Hatfield left in his own words because of Broyles. Not good to run off a coach with the highest winning percentage in program history. Did they pay the price though and still are.
This post was edited on 12/13/24 at 9:34 pm
Posted on 12/13/24 at 9:36 pm to Clark14
Ken is a legend up here.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 9:44 pm to captdalton
He isn't hated but fans still don't appreciate what he did for Arkansas and thought they could upgrade and do better. LOL they replaced him with Jack Crowe and they found out quickly what a stupid decision that was.
He wasn't an a-hole at all but the opposite. The players loved him because he cared about them unlike the coaches of today.
He wasn't an a-hole at all but the opposite. The players loved him because he cared about them unlike the coaches of today.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 9:47 pm to captdalton
Hatfield was a dropped interception in the EZ by future NFL Pro Bowler Steve Atwater against Miami in 1989 from being undefeated and most likely playing for a national championship. Was undefeated in the SWC and went 10-1. Dropped int allowed Miami to kick a last second FG and win 18-16.
Lost to Tennessee in the Cotton Bowl because OC Jack Crowe made two of the dumbest moves/calls I have ever witnessed. Arkansas was already headed to the SEC and perhaps Ken knew Arkansas would have trouble competing and, with the friction with Broyles, bolted for Clemson.
Lost to Tennessee in the Cotton Bowl because OC Jack Crowe made two of the dumbest moves/calls I have ever witnessed. Arkansas was already headed to the SEC and perhaps Ken knew Arkansas would have trouble competing and, with the friction with Broyles, bolted for Clemson.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 9:53 pm to scrooster
Broyles had some rough relationships with Nolan Richardson, Eddie Sutton, Lou Holtz and Ken Hatfield. Even legendary track coach John McDonnell pissed off Broyles when he asked for a well deserved raise.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 9:59 pm to dchog
quote:
Broyles had some rough relationships with Nolan Richardson, Eddie Sutton, Lou Holtz and Ken Hatfield. Even legendary track coach John McDonnell pissed off Broyles when he asked for a well deserved raise.
Ran off the 4 most successful coaches in Arkansas history, outside of Petrino.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 10:00 pm to Fan1958
The transition to the SEC would have been easier had they left Hatfield to himself instead of letting that dummy Jack Crowe take over.
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