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re: When players become official employees
Posted on 12/17/23 at 10:55 am to Aggie in TN
Posted on 12/17/23 at 10:55 am to Aggie in TN
But, but don’t criticize the young man’s play. He’s just an amateur. My arse.
1
Posted on 12/17/23 at 10:56 am to Aggie in TN
When the players become employees, the universities will create a situation like the NFL that suppresses payroll in exchange for letting the employees unionize.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 11:09 am to wadewilson
We need NFL to get involved here. It shouldn't be up to universities to run an NFL farm league. It was OK before NIL, but now is not sustainable.
I think it would be cool if NFL bought rights or went into an official partnership with these schools. That make make it a bit more sustainable.
I think it would be cool if NFL bought rights or went into an official partnership with these schools. That make make it a bit more sustainable.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 11:25 am to AUstar
Why would the NFL want to take on extra responsibility/risk when they already have (let’s face it, what CFB is) a FREE farm system set up for them that’s funded by the media, fans, and, in some cases, the states’ publics?
I don’t think the NFL will ever do anything like this.
I don’t think the NFL will ever do anything like this.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 11:25 am to RollingwiththeTide
quote:
So what I’m wondering is how this will change the roster slots. Right now it’s 85 scholarship players but you can’t afford to pay 85 guys hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. I’m guessing that a college roster will look a lot like the 50 something man roster in the NFL.
Once they unionize, they will have a CBA. Then there will be some sort of salary cap. It will be up to the program to manage the roster. I’m sure some will be better at it than others
Posted on 12/17/23 at 11:45 am to Aggie in TN
quote:
100%
But once a player becomes an official employee, they will be locked into a contract like a pro player which prevents them from transferring.
Paid with whose money? NIL deals come from private donors. Congress gonna step in and tell those donors that they are now responsible for an 8 figure payroll?
Posted on 12/17/23 at 11:50 am to Radio One
quote:
Why would the NFL want to take on extra responsibility/risk when they already have (let’s face it, what CFB is) a FREE farm system set up for them that’s funded by the media, fans, and, in some cases, the states’ publics?
Because on the current course, they won't have that free farm system. College football will collapse.
Basically, what this thread is proposing is that every state has to put up tax money for an additional 80 or so employees at every state school that intends to field a football program.
Can you imagine the political battles when legislators try to decide which football programs should continue to exist?
Posted on 12/17/23 at 11:54 am to wadewilson
How do you picture this collapse happening?
Posted on 12/17/23 at 11:54 am to labamafan
quote:
At that point I will just stop watching college football (not that anyone cares) but the game I grew up loving will be officially dead.
this.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 11:59 am to LouisianimaI
quote:
But, but don’t criticize the young man’s play. He’s just an amateur.
Yeah, that whole attitude needs to go.
“He’ll always be a Bulldog/Hoosier/Bruin/whatever” does, too.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:05 pm to Radio One
quote:
How do you picture this collapse happening?
Well, we can continue as is and football will exist.
If you start telling states and private donors that every team will have to have X amount of players making Y amount of dollars........you'll find out real quick how much value certain players and programs have.
Legislators and donors might have no problem paying the starting QB at Alabama a guaranteed salary.
How about the second string kicker?
Or a 3rd string WR at Auburn?
Or a starting QB at UAB?
How are legislators going to react when their districts college town loses its football team because the state decided the money goes somewhere else?
Where do NIL donors fit into this?
I can tell you it's going to get real nasty in Louisiana when Tulane decides it's not paying and the football team shuts down, and nastier still when laleg decides that LSU is going to be the only football program in the state going forward and all the G5's get shut down.
ETA: The point is that OP is talking about guaranteed money that doesn't actually exist. Texas is dropping millions because donors felt like it, not because they state legislature allocated payroll for college athletes.
This post was edited on 12/17/23 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:18 pm to wadewilson
I agree we’re lurching towards something bad and ugly and unrecognizable compared to even 30 years ago. Thanks for some interesting thoughts.
I’m just about done with it all at this point, anyway. I’ve quit the three professional leagues already. I’m thinking I’ll find a D3 or NAIA school to quietly root for and enjoy knowing that every guy out on the field is literate and has to go to classes just like ordinary students.
I’m just about done with it all at this point, anyway. I’ve quit the three professional leagues already. I’m thinking I’ll find a D3 or NAIA school to quietly root for and enjoy knowing that every guy out on the field is literate and has to go to classes just like ordinary students.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:22 pm to AUstar
quote:
We need NFL to get involved here. It shouldn't be up to universities to run an NFL farm league. It was OK before NIL, but now is not sustainable.
I think it would be cool if NFL bought rights or went into an official partnership with these schools. That make make it a bit more sustainable.
The more I think about that, the more that I think it's totally unrealistic.
As is, college football is a free farm system. The NFL doesn't care if players play at 1 or 4 different colleges. If they're good enough, they'll get an invite to the combine and get drafted. If they're not good enough, forget 'em.
Sure, maybe 20 to 30 D1 programs decide it's not worth it and shut their football teams down permanently. Still plenty of talent to choose from.
The NFL is downstream and will not feel the effects or recognize the difficulty of free agency and NIL. Sure, there will be some arrogant players that think they can push their weight in the NFL like they do in college. Maybe Caleb Williams can get away with it for a little while, but if he doesn't shape up he'll just be a cautionary tale.
What's going to change is what happens upstream. If more and more colleges and universities decide to get out of football altogether because it's just too much effort, that's fewer scholarships available for high school recruits. When high schools realize their kids aren't going to get opportunities like they used to, what do they do instead?
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:27 pm to wadewilson
quote:
When high schools realize their kids aren't going to get opportunities like they used to, what do they do instead?
As for high schools, wouldn’t you say this is a very small problem? I mean, for the ordinary public or private schools. The athlete mills like IMG are different — but I suppose that they’ll always have a market since they’re selling a very particular sort of product.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:29 pm to Radio One
quote:
I agree we’re lurching towards something bad and ugly and unrecognizable compared to even 30 years ago. Thanks for some interesting thoughts.
Look, the SEC isn't going to change much. I bet 4 out of 5 P5 programs will continue to exist and thrive no matter what. Maybe some programs fall off, but the SEC and B1G at least will protect their brands and institutions that are valuable enough. Alabama football isn't going anywhere. Neither is Ohio State. And if they decide that the Maryland and Iowa and South Carolina and Ole Miss programs of the sport have value, the conferences will do what they need to to protect them.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:33 pm to wadewilson
Sure, and that’s why I purposely used the word “lurching.” I think you’re right about the SEC and Big Ten.
I don’t think any of this is going to come to some sort of dramatic head, an event about which anyone with eyes can say, “THIS is when college football died.” But it very well may happen over time, slowly and almost imperceptibly.
I don’t think any of this is going to come to some sort of dramatic head, an event about which anyone with eyes can say, “THIS is when college football died.” But it very well may happen over time, slowly and almost imperceptibly.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:40 pm to Radio One
quote:
As for high schools, wouldn’t you say this is a very small problem? I mean, for the ordinary public or private schools.
We spend a lot of time focusing on starters and the absolute best at their positions. We don't spend as much on less talented players that either stay on scout team for a P5 for 5 years, or start at a tiny school like New Mexico. For some of those players, football is the only way they get an opportunity to go to college.
If we decide that every university has to pay players, you're forcing legislatures to decide which programs will continue. If state legs collectively decide that, say, 30 programs aren't worth it, that's 2,550 football scholarships that don't exist, along with all of those coaching positions, GA's, off-field assistants, admin employees, student trainers, etc.
And if the rest of the 90 or so teams that still exist drop their rosters down to say, 60 players, that's another 2,250 scholarships that don't exist.
So 4,750 scholarship opportunities might not seem like a big deal, but that's every year.
Maybe you can't name a specific player from your favorite program that was only able to go to college because of a football scholarship, but I guarantee they exist.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:42 pm to Radio One
quote:
Sure, and that’s why I purposely used the word “lurching.” I think you’re right about the SEC and Big Ten.
Yeah, and whatever becomes of the PAC, Big 12, and ACC - they'll protect valuable brands. If it brings in TV money and it helps local economies and enough people love it, the conference will find a way to make it survive.
quote:
I don’t think any of this is going to come to some sort of dramatic head, an event about which anyone with eyes can say, “THIS is when college football died.” But it very well may happen over time, slowly and almost imperceptibly.
I don't think the sport will die either. But there will be an opportunity cost. There won't be as many scholarships or jobs available in the scenario OP described.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 1:04 pm to wadewilson
Yes and no.
Players would be employees of the school and garner a standard salary. This might be regulated by congress or the NCAA. I’ve heard 30k being thrown around which is laughable. I can see schools forcing players to sign contracts with a clause about transferring.
The other part of the equation is endorsements through NIL. This will be unregulated.
Obviously these are tied to the players sticking with their current school. So in a way the school contract and NIL deals should keep keep players from
Jumping after one year.
Players would be employees of the school and garner a standard salary. This might be regulated by congress or the NCAA. I’ve heard 30k being thrown around which is laughable. I can see schools forcing players to sign contracts with a clause about transferring.
The other part of the equation is endorsements through NIL. This will be unregulated.
Obviously these are tied to the players sticking with their current school. So in a way the school contract and NIL deals should keep keep players from
Jumping after one year.
This post was edited on 12/17/23 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 12/17/23 at 1:16 pm to Aggie in TN
I think about it like this:
What is the commodity we're talking about right here?
It's not the football game. That's not the commodity. The merchandise? Nope.
Us.
We are the commodity. Our eyeballs watching a game on TV. Who is purchasing us? State Farm and Burger King and Ford. The football game and the broadcast are simply the commodities exchange platform, like the NYSE or Chicago Mercantile.
The only source of money for football teams and broadcasters and sponsors is us buying products from the advertisers, and the schools have a side hustle selling us merchandise, tickets, and asking for donations.
This is the entire business model.
If we start watching less, buying, and donating less, the whole shithouse goes up in flames.
I already watch less. If it's not a UGA game, I'm probably not going to watch it, even if it is an interesting matchup, I just don't have the give-a-shite in me to watch 3 hours of commercials for a 60 minute game.
I forgot what my original point was, so I'll pause here.
What is the commodity we're talking about right here?
It's not the football game. That's not the commodity. The merchandise? Nope.
Us.
We are the commodity. Our eyeballs watching a game on TV. Who is purchasing us? State Farm and Burger King and Ford. The football game and the broadcast are simply the commodities exchange platform, like the NYSE or Chicago Mercantile.
The only source of money for football teams and broadcasters and sponsors is us buying products from the advertisers, and the schools have a side hustle selling us merchandise, tickets, and asking for donations.
This is the entire business model.
If we start watching less, buying, and donating less, the whole shithouse goes up in flames.
I already watch less. If it's not a UGA game, I'm probably not going to watch it, even if it is an interesting matchup, I just don't have the give-a-shite in me to watch 3 hours of commercials for a 60 minute game.
I forgot what my original point was, so I'll pause here.
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