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Thoughts on our issues and moving forward
Posted on 11/9/22 at 9:47 am
Posted on 11/9/22 at 9:47 am
I think we all agree at this point that something is rotten in Denmark. The extent of those things, the culprits, the solutions are all up for debate to some extent. Personally, I think there is some positive and some negative moving forward.
Positive - I fully expect Saban to make changes to sure up the areas with coaching deficiencies, including both coordinators and possibly position coaches that he deems unfit (and I think it's really hard for us to know who those are because the bad coordinating muddies the waters). I expect us to make good hires on both sides and I expect us to look light years better - especially offensively - moving forward. The bar is set so low at this point that any change is going to be positive. And considering how close we are to being really good already, that is encouraging.
Negative - I don't think Saban has enough time to fix the deeper issues of getting back to being the tough/robotic Alabama of old (as they currently are in Athens). It took multiple years for that to slowly chip away, and it is going to take multiple years to build it back up. Now, it is probably foolish to doubt the GOAT, but I just don't see that happening.
So, I guess in conclusion, what do the next 3-4 years look like in my scenario laid out above? I think we are a really good team, capable of winning titles. We are not the clear cut best team or program in the country, and quite frankly Georgia probably will be. But we'll be in that next group of 3-4 programs and it will look a lot more like 2017-2020 than 2021-2022. And, as we know, just because you are the top dog program, that does not mean you win it all every year. Saban ends his career with solid teams, not quite at the apex of his career, but a great program with good players and solid play. Possibly snags another title, but in the grand scheme of things probable that he doesn't.
Thoughts? Disagreement?
Positive - I fully expect Saban to make changes to sure up the areas with coaching deficiencies, including both coordinators and possibly position coaches that he deems unfit (and I think it's really hard for us to know who those are because the bad coordinating muddies the waters). I expect us to make good hires on both sides and I expect us to look light years better - especially offensively - moving forward. The bar is set so low at this point that any change is going to be positive. And considering how close we are to being really good already, that is encouraging.
Negative - I don't think Saban has enough time to fix the deeper issues of getting back to being the tough/robotic Alabama of old (as they currently are in Athens). It took multiple years for that to slowly chip away, and it is going to take multiple years to build it back up. Now, it is probably foolish to doubt the GOAT, but I just don't see that happening.
So, I guess in conclusion, what do the next 3-4 years look like in my scenario laid out above? I think we are a really good team, capable of winning titles. We are not the clear cut best team or program in the country, and quite frankly Georgia probably will be. But we'll be in that next group of 3-4 programs and it will look a lot more like 2017-2020 than 2021-2022. And, as we know, just because you are the top dog program, that does not mean you win it all every year. Saban ends his career with solid teams, not quite at the apex of his career, but a great program with good players and solid play. Possibly snags another title, but in the grand scheme of things probable that he doesn't.
Thoughts? Disagreement?
This post was edited on 11/9/22 at 9:49 am
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Posted on 11/9/22 at 9:55 am to SummerOfGeorge
Very good breakdown OP.........For me its this simple, it's up to Saban to make the proper moves to keep the team at championship level. If he doesn't, then Saban's future has to be examined and Bama football has to start looking very hard at its future. I hope the best for Saban but if a move is made, I hope its quick enough the program doesn't take a major dip. The football program and Saban's career hangs in the balance of how he handles this.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 9:56 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
I fully expect Saban to make changes to sure up the areas with coaching deficiencies, including both coordinators and possibly position coaches that he deems unfit
IF Saban returns I agree with this. I think he knows the standard is not being met and I actually think he knows right now that he fricked up by taking the comfortable steady route with Golding especially but also to a degree with Bob by asking him for a two-year commitment when he hired him.
quote:
Negative - I don't think Saban has enough time to fix the deeper issues of getting back to being the tough/robotic Alabama of old (as they currently are in Athens). It took multiple years for that to slowly chip away, and it is going to take multiple years to build it back up
I don't agree with this. I think with the right style of play/leadership you can get that back quickly with the talent we have. Pruitt for instance (and I don't know that he's ever going to be realistic again) was so freaking aggressive that it wore off on the players.
I hope that with a regime change on offense we will bring back smash mouth football. I'm not talking 2011. I'm talking 2020. Put Najee in the Pistol, let him get going downhill, and work play-action off of that. I believe that all of this RPO stuff makes your linemen soft because they cannot play with aggressiveness and play within the rules.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 9:59 am to Bham Bammer
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I'm talking 2020. Put Najee in the Pistol, let him get going downhill, and work play-action off of that. I believe that all of this RPO stuff makes your linemen soft because they cannot play with aggressiveness and play within the rules.
Agree - though you can still do that within the RPO sphere. Ole Miss and Arkansas run RPO more than anybody in the SEC outside of Tennessee and they are 2 of the most physical running teams in the league. But their versions of RPO and their philosophy of decision on those is clearly very different than ours.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 10:03 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Negative - I don't think Saban has enough time to fix the deeper issues of getting back to being the tough/robotic Alabama of old (as they currently are in Athens).
Based on this, needed staff overhaul, lack of solid quarterback experience and his age, I'm not sure he's going to be willing to go through what's required. One big thing is that he would have to make a change in allowing his coordinators and assistants more freedom in system and philosophy implementation in order to attract the coaching talent we need. Just not sure he will ever do that.
I'm sure he sees the magnitude of what's needed. It's not a quick fix-it's a multiple year process. I know he doesn't want to go out like this, but no one ever does and few go out on top.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 10:10 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Negative - I don't think Saban has enough time to fix the deeper issues of getting back to being the tough/robotic Alabama of old (as they currently are in Athens). It took multiple years for that to slowly chip away, and it is going to take multiple years to build it back up. Now, it is probably foolish to doubt the GOAT, but I just don't see that happening.
A title in 2009 after starting with a team that, as we all know, lost to UL-M
In 07. I would think Bama has more physical talent now or ability to get that in one class than O7
Time isn't the problem I think. It's more .. does Saban have the capacity to outwork other coaches / to handle staffing changes / to motivate and discipline kids who will have enough NIL money and talent to go through the motions. If he has that capacity then ....Bama is fine
Posted on 11/9/22 at 10:16 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
getting back to being the tough/robotic Alabama of old (as they currently are in Athens)
I think this is a simple fix, and I think it’s the opposite of what you’re saying. This team seems robotic to me. Just a lack of energy. Anxiety stemming from a results oriented mindset because they don’t seem to play with the freedom of having fun.
Look back to Kirby, Kiffin, Cochran, etc. Those coaches were all extremely animated on the sideline. Chest bumping guys after a big play, having to be held back from going on the field trying to get an adjustment in. They were just animated coaches. It’s fun to play for guys like that. There was a lot of positive reinforcement to go with the negative. Those teams were disciplined and elite, but they had fun whipping arse.
BoB sits in the press box and I’ve never seen Golding break character of a guy with a hangover that wants the lights dimmed and the volume turned down. I think these coaches have taken “business like” past the tipping point and our play reflects it. Saban even mentioned earlier in the year that the guys weren’t chanting coming out of the tunnel against Tennessee. It’s like there’s this mindset that’s permeated throughout the program that “we’re Alabama, it’s a business here.”
It’s not though. It’s a kids game. Look at Will Andersons comments about it being an insult for the other guy to step on the field with us. That’s a dangerous mindset, because to me it almost suggests that the Jersey you’re wearing is doing half the work. Anxiety and results focus is going to creep in when someone punches back.
I’m not advocating for gimmicks or a circus to come to town, but an element of fun and positive reinforcement would go a long way imo.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 10:19 am to Riseupfromtherubble
Agree with you 100% - I meant more robotic in terms of a machine. No errors. No mistakes. Absolute laser forcus at all times regardless of opponent or score. No anxiety, no nervousness, no overexcitement. The hallmark of the apex of the Saban program.
Definitely did not mean just kind of lacking energy and nervously looking around like this bunch absolutely does. And I agree with your solution.
Definitely did not mean just kind of lacking energy and nervously looking around like this bunch absolutely does. And I agree with your solution.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 10:34 am to SummerOfGeorge
The offseason will be interesting. We've seen Saban adapt many times over the years. I think questioning if he has the energy or want-to to do it again is valid at this point. I hope like hell it is, but Father Time is undefeated.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 10:34 am to SummerOfGeorge
What I don’t understand is, why would Saban throw away an entire season by inaction?
You don’t want to fire the OC mid season, ok, sit down and script the play calling for him each week.
You don’t want to fire the DC mid season, ok, simplify the defense and let your athletes make plays. It can’t really get any worse.
I also want to know who is to blame for the ball being snapped at under five seconds on almost every play? You’re telling me that can’t be fixed mid-season? If need be, get BoB down to the sideline. If BoB refuses, he should be fired immediately. If Saban can’t make that decision, he needs to retire.
Who is responsible for pre-snap penalties, personal foul penalties, special team penalties? Again, is anyone paying consequences for not doing their job? If not, why not?
If anyone on the staff or team is not adhering to Saban’s philosophy or demands, they don’t deserve to stay employed to the end of the season (that is Jimbo/fsu). If Saban is unwilling/unable to make those decisions, then something is wrong/off and this is what worries me most.
How many staff members need to be replaced to fix all the problems with this team?
You don’t want to fire the OC mid season, ok, sit down and script the play calling for him each week.
You don’t want to fire the DC mid season, ok, simplify the defense and let your athletes make plays. It can’t really get any worse.
I also want to know who is to blame for the ball being snapped at under five seconds on almost every play? You’re telling me that can’t be fixed mid-season? If need be, get BoB down to the sideline. If BoB refuses, he should be fired immediately. If Saban can’t make that decision, he needs to retire.
Who is responsible for pre-snap penalties, personal foul penalties, special team penalties? Again, is anyone paying consequences for not doing their job? If not, why not?
If anyone on the staff or team is not adhering to Saban’s philosophy or demands, they don’t deserve to stay employed to the end of the season (that is Jimbo/fsu). If Saban is unwilling/unable to make those decisions, then something is wrong/off and this is what worries me most.
How many staff members need to be replaced to fix all the problems with this team?
Posted on 11/9/22 at 10:39 am to SummerOfGeorge
Culture change doesn't take long in college football. If Saban makes the right coordinator hires the toughness and unbreakable spirit will return quickly.
NFL is a different thing primarily due to the ruthless culture where you're just trying to keep your job versus those on extended contacts who can coast
NFL is a different thing primarily due to the ruthless culture where you're just trying to keep your job versus those on extended contacts who can coast
Posted on 11/9/22 at 10:56 am to SummerOfGeorge
I think we have seen the last great Alabama team under Nick Saban.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 11:02 am to JackieTreehorn
You won't find someone who has a more unhealthy hate of the barn than me, but I give them credit in 2 areas. They move decisively most times in fires/hires and they have an aggressive media-hype program that is relentless. We tend to be VERY slow in our hire/fires.
This post was edited on 11/9/22 at 11:03 am
Posted on 11/9/22 at 11:15 am to SummerOfGeorge
Great thoughts SOG. I’m with you, I’m encouraged that drastic changes will be made this offseason from the coordinators and position coaches Saban feels aren’t living up to standards.
I don’t think time is the biggest enemy in terms of turning things around. I think it all hinges on making the right hires at the coordinator position. Saban has been known to be difficult to work for, so he had to tone it down a notch when it comes to chewing out coaches. But in the end he settled for stability over ability at the coordinator spots. Bring in the right coaches with the right attitudes and things can change quickly with the talent we already have and the talent coming in.
The program has taken an uppercut to the jaw the last couple of years and it’s on its heels, but not done yet. Saban isn’t as old, and, as far as we know, just as healthy as JoePa and Bowden and there is time to make another run at 1 and maybe even 2 titles if Saban wants to stick around that long. Its all about hiring the right coaches with the right attitudes and letting that percolate down to the players.
I don’t think time is the biggest enemy in terms of turning things around. I think it all hinges on making the right hires at the coordinator position. Saban has been known to be difficult to work for, so he had to tone it down a notch when it comes to chewing out coaches. But in the end he settled for stability over ability at the coordinator spots. Bring in the right coaches with the right attitudes and things can change quickly with the talent we already have and the talent coming in.
The program has taken an uppercut to the jaw the last couple of years and it’s on its heels, but not done yet. Saban isn’t as old, and, as far as we know, just as healthy as JoePa and Bowden and there is time to make another run at 1 and maybe even 2 titles if Saban wants to stick around that long. Its all about hiring the right coaches with the right attitudes and letting that percolate down to the players.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 11:16 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
the tough/robotic Alabama of old (as they currently are in Athens). It took multiple years for that to slowly chip away,
Not really. Not at all. Go back and watch Bama-Clemson from opening night 2008. He has the same opportunity with a brand new top-ranked recruiting class coming in.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 11:37 am to BamaGradinTn
I don't think re-starting something 15 years into a coaching tenure is nearly as simple as starting it from scratch like it was back then.
Would love to be wrong.
Would love to be wrong.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 11:43 am to BamaGradinTn
I think we can see drastic improvement in just effort, execution and team cohesion next year if right people are hired. That's a big deal. And good coordinators put the right people in the right place to succeed. We have been out schemed more the past 2 years than probably the decade before.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 11:45 am to Lucky_Stryke
quote:
I think we can see drastic improvement in just effort, execution and team cohesion next year if right people are hired. That's a big deal. And good coordinators put the right people in the right place to succeed. We have been out schemed more the past 2 years than probably the decade before.
100000% agree
The silver lining to this is that there is a 99% chance that whoever we hire on offense will show clear improvement in almost all areas next season, even if they aren't some guru. That's how dysfunctional and flat out bad we've been this season and a lot of last season.
Defense is kind of it's own thing because of Saban's system and all that.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 12:18 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
The silver lining to this is that there is a 99% chance that whoever we hire on offense will show clear improvement in almost all areas next season, even if they aren't some guru. That's how dysfunctional and flat out bad we've been this season and a lot of last season.
100% agree
quote:
Defense is kind of it's own thing because of Saban's system and all that.
I'm beginning to wonder if Saban's defense is past is prime now. Perhaps the new offenses are able to scheme around Saban's form of coverage. Also, it seems that the refs are not happy with how or defenders are taught to cover.
Posted on 11/9/22 at 12:46 pm to bogeypro
I do believe we will see staff turnover at the seasons end, To me the question is can he find the guys to come in and fix this. Related to that is the fact that Saban coaches DB's and their technique is one of the problems. So there's that.
I do not buy that the fix is a multi year thing. The roster has players who are capable, with the right coaching they can be winners. I know Bryce will be gone but frankly we do better with game managers, and Georgia's QB is far from an NFL talent.
At receiver I can almost guarantee their problem is route running and offensive play design. these guys are not as bad as they currently look. They need a better offense and they need a better coach.
Most of the other positions just need to be way more aggressive, mean, irritable, determined. Players always reflect their coach. Find guys like that to lead them
Its a lot of ifs but if it all went well we could be right back in the hunt next season.
I do not buy that the fix is a multi year thing. The roster has players who are capable, with the right coaching they can be winners. I know Bryce will be gone but frankly we do better with game managers, and Georgia's QB is far from an NFL talent.
At receiver I can almost guarantee their problem is route running and offensive play design. these guys are not as bad as they currently look. They need a better offense and they need a better coach.
Most of the other positions just need to be way more aggressive, mean, irritable, determined. Players always reflect their coach. Find guys like that to lead them
Its a lot of ifs but if it all went well we could be right back in the hunt next season.
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