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Posted on 3/22/26 at 9:48 am to Bigbens42
quote:
You can’t lean into the argument from improbability. It’s an automatic loss on base logic.
So you are saying similar to nothing collapsed so tightly that it exploded and created everything?
It’s just a matter of what someone puts their faith in. Some believe in the big bang star dust theology others believe in an intelligent design theology.
No one in this thread is telling anyone what to believe. Just referring to things some of use find interesting.
Posted on 3/22/26 at 10:05 am to Bigbens42
quote:
At a loss that fundie bullshite is so normalized here
So you think the things we are discussing is fundamental Christianity?
It’s the exact opposite. We are discussing the fringe concepts that some people have believers and non believers of the faith.
Also not sure why you don’t like Ken Johnson, maybe you are thinking Ken Hovand or whatever his name is the dinosaur preacher guy.
If you are a believer you’re free to express your thoughts, if you aren’t we probably know your thoughts but you are welcome to express them, like I stated earlier it’s just a matter of where one puts their faith in a supreme being or man’s science.
Posted on 3/22/26 at 10:43 am to CorchJay
Exactly. We do not merely accept what we are told but draw conclusions based on our personal study. Each person evaluates evidence for themselves and not all will draw the same conclusions. I'm thankful that we are free to have these conversations.
Posted on 3/22/26 at 10:51 am to CorchJay
quote:why not both
Some believe in the big bang star dust theology others believe in an intelligent design theology.
2me:
If you look closely Genesis 1:1 isn't a complete sentence. It's a subordinate clause and cannot stand alone as a complete sentence, It relies on a main clause for its meaning.
Which then tempers 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth... with 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. ... and hence you get something that's not a planet, it's not solid, and it's before there was even a first star. Hence a 24 hour 7 day convention has no real merit.
Add in the the rest of the clause..... And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters..... which seems (IMO) to be indicative of something that's a fluid (plasma, mixture,...) that's comprised of shamayim (heavens, gasses, etc) and of erets (land, dirt, earth ...). As in something that is comprised of gasses and minerals which are void of form and moving around.
And if we are discussing time as a day or revolution... then the time for everything to perform one rotation could be on the order of hundreds of millions of years. Which fits nicely with all matter seeming to have the same red Doppler Shift which indicates a rotation in the same direction.
Which doesn't rule out evolution nor intelligent design.... (since God was moving upon the waters, as in maybe stirring the pot).
The main contention then becomes how you handle the two opposing creation stories in Genesis. Because they both cannot be true. One of which seems to be put forth by a very advanced mind for a people to be so primitive. And the other (to me) folklore and not readily tossed away, so I'm guessing the compilers of the bible simply kept both versions. Even if they are at odds with each other.
Although even this might be too fundie for some people.
Posted on 3/22/26 at 11:06 am to awestruck
I have studied the Bible for almost 40 years and I don’t think we are intelligent enough to completely understand it in its depth. Just like the uou referenced the first verse even the first word describes the entire story of the mankind from a messianic Christian worldview.
In the beginning.. is one word Bereshit but broken down by root words and what each letter of the word essentially tells the story that God came to earth died on a tree for sins. Obviously written way before a man named Yeshua walked the earth.
Also the meaning of each male name through the line of Seth their names tell the Biblical story. There is no way that a group of men could come up with all these intertwined stories that add up to what is on paper.
In the beginning.. is one word Bereshit but broken down by root words and what each letter of the word essentially tells the story that God came to earth died on a tree for sins. Obviously written way before a man named Yeshua walked the earth.
Also the meaning of each male name through the line of Seth their names tell the Biblical story. There is no way that a group of men could come up with all these intertwined stories that add up to what is on paper.
Posted on 3/22/26 at 11:27 am to CorchJay
The Jew's don't even start Bereshit, "In the beginning".
With an 'ex nihilo' connotation. They use phrasing such as when in the beginning or as God was about the business of creation. So as to refrain from having this story describe an absolute start from nothing. Which is a crafty way to avoid the issue and pass that on to philosophers.
With an 'ex nihilo' connotation. They use phrasing such as when in the beginning or as God was about the business of creation. So as to refrain from having this story describe an absolute start from nothing. Which is a crafty way to avoid the issue and pass that on to philosophers.
Posted on 3/22/26 at 12:22 pm to awestruck
To me science proves the existence of a creator. Most astrophysicists believe that there at least 10 dimensions. We humans can only view/see/experience 3 of them. Maybe some psychics or mystics can see something beyond the 3 that I don’t understand.
But none of this defines my faith. May faith is in the blood, on what Jesus did. The gospel is found in 1 Cor. 15 v1-4. If you believe that 100 percent you are saved and sealed by God. You are written the book of life. At the end of the day that is all that matters.
The reason for all these arguments in Christianity between the different denominations are The Who/what argument. Christ’s earthly ministry was all about Who Jesus was. That’s why Jesus always asked who do you say that I am, who do they say I am. Also Jesus in his earthly ministry said himself that he came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So obviously Jesus’s ministry was for Jews to accept him as the messiah to bring in the Kingdom age. Acts is a transitional book from The Who gospel to the What gospel as Paul receives a new Gospel from Jesus’s heavenly ministry. The Jews missed the Kingdom opportunity by not accepting the messiah. Therefore Jesus used Paul to go to the Jew first and then the Gentiles with the new Covenant of acceptance of what Jesus did and not just who he was. However, the God Head knew this before hand not like a Calvinist predestination view point but God is outside of time he can see the Alpha and Omega at the same time so he knows what happens.
So if your pastor stays in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John they are teaching The Who gospel. Great to live by and understand the story of Christ on earth but John 3:16 isn’t what teaches us how to be “saved” today. Like I mentioned before that is found in 1 Cor. 15 v1-4
But none of this defines my faith. May faith is in the blood, on what Jesus did. The gospel is found in 1 Cor. 15 v1-4. If you believe that 100 percent you are saved and sealed by God. You are written the book of life. At the end of the day that is all that matters.
The reason for all these arguments in Christianity between the different denominations are The Who/what argument. Christ’s earthly ministry was all about Who Jesus was. That’s why Jesus always asked who do you say that I am, who do they say I am. Also Jesus in his earthly ministry said himself that he came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So obviously Jesus’s ministry was for Jews to accept him as the messiah to bring in the Kingdom age. Acts is a transitional book from The Who gospel to the What gospel as Paul receives a new Gospel from Jesus’s heavenly ministry. The Jews missed the Kingdom opportunity by not accepting the messiah. Therefore Jesus used Paul to go to the Jew first and then the Gentiles with the new Covenant of acceptance of what Jesus did and not just who he was. However, the God Head knew this before hand not like a Calvinist predestination view point but God is outside of time he can see the Alpha and Omega at the same time so he knows what happens.
So if your pastor stays in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John they are teaching The Who gospel. Great to live by and understand the story of Christ on earth but John 3:16 isn’t what teaches us how to be “saved” today. Like I mentioned before that is found in 1 Cor. 15 v1-4
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