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I'm seeing/hearing lots about Saban being outcoached
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:16 pm
I understand game planning, preparation etc. falls under "coaching". But I'm talking a little more in-game coaching.
I don't think Dabo outcoached Nick as much as Nick made some questionable/poor decisions.
Not trying to push the ball at the end of the 1st half with 3 timeouts was pretty sketchy to me. I understand Tua and the offense had a rough half but he's the runner up Heisman QB of your record breaking offense. Try to move the chains there as Clemson had no timeouts themselves. I'm not saying a FG kick would've been a gimme but I felt that was a small surrender going into the half.
The fake FG on the opening drive of the 3rd qtr. just drove me crazy. Forget what you saw on tape. Forget what should've happened if blocked properly. Don't take the ball out of Tua's hands there in such a do-or-die moment. JMO but Clemson was conceding the FG as 15pts. or 12pts. still means we needed 2 touchdowns.
You could argue that Saban should've demanded Tosh bring more pressure or begged Locksley to call better plays. But almost everything that went wrong in that game had nothing to do with Saban.
What are your thoughts?
I don't think Dabo outcoached Nick as much as Nick made some questionable/poor decisions.
Not trying to push the ball at the end of the 1st half with 3 timeouts was pretty sketchy to me. I understand Tua and the offense had a rough half but he's the runner up Heisman QB of your record breaking offense. Try to move the chains there as Clemson had no timeouts themselves. I'm not saying a FG kick would've been a gimme but I felt that was a small surrender going into the half.
The fake FG on the opening drive of the 3rd qtr. just drove me crazy. Forget what you saw on tape. Forget what should've happened if blocked properly. Don't take the ball out of Tua's hands there in such a do-or-die moment. JMO but Clemson was conceding the FG as 15pts. or 12pts. still means we needed 2 touchdowns.
You could argue that Saban should've demanded Tosh bring more pressure or begged Locksley to call better plays. But almost everything that went wrong in that game had nothing to do with Saban.
What are your thoughts?
12
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:18 pm to 615tider
quote:
But almost everything that went wrong in that game had nothing to do with Saban.
You could make the point that everything that went wrong had to do with Saban.
Who made Lupoi and Locksley coordinators?
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:19 pm to 615tider
Everything you just mentioned falls under coaching. His in game coaching was as bad as I've ever seen from him.
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:19 pm to 615tider
quote:
What are your thoughts?
We left 3 timeouts and a good bit of time left on the board. When you have Tua and the receiver squad we have, you don't try and get something? Shows no confidence in our kicker either,,,,,Not there should be any but at least try.
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:22 pm to Cobrasize
quote:
His in game coaching was as bad as I've ever seen from him.
How so? I'm curious as to what you disliked or disagreed with.
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:22 pm to 615tider
quote:
I don't think Dabo outcoached Nick as much as Nick made some questionable/poor decisions.
Part of being superior is avoiding bad.
This post was edited on 1/9/19 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:23 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Who made Lupoi and Locksley coordinators?
So were those shitty hires all year or just against Clemson?
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:25 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Who made Lupoi and Locksley coordinators?
I think they both did excellent jobs overall. Locksley guided the most explosive Bama offense in modern history, and Tosh built a top 7 defense out of our youngest defensive 2-deep in Saban's tenure, and doing it in a year with a particularly daunting schedule and a high amount of injuries.
What more did you want?
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:26 pm to 615tider
quote:
I don't think Dabo outcoached Nick as much as Nick made some questionable/poor decisions.
This pretty much says right here you agree Saban was outcoached.
To really answer your question, I think Dabo kicked Saban's arse before the game and during the game. Saban will have them back in the hunt next year though. I'd still like to see the offense go back to some of the power running that the dynasty was built on
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:29 pm to 615tider
Offense was execution and a good bend but dont break scheme by Venables. Locksley runs a Big 12esque offense with Tua and Venables ate it up at critical points with coverage tweaks and disguised blitzes.
Our D couldn't get them off the field and avoid the big plays. Kudos to Clemson... they had Bamas #.
But, yes, Saban WAS outcoached. Dabo is in his head. Each CG has played out differently, but each has the common theme of Bama doing things differently than any other game.
I do hate how the arse kicking in the semis vs Dabo has been conveniently forgotten, as if Saban and Bama are somehow obsolete.
When 2 elite teams, with great familiarity with each other play, all bets are off. Its like the NFL, if we played again next week... bama might when in the blowout.
Our D couldn't get them off the field and avoid the big plays. Kudos to Clemson... they had Bamas #.
But, yes, Saban WAS outcoached. Dabo is in his head. Each CG has played out differently, but each has the common theme of Bama doing things differently than any other game.
I do hate how the arse kicking in the semis vs Dabo has been conveniently forgotten, as if Saban and Bama are somehow obsolete.
When 2 elite teams, with great familiarity with each other play, all bets are off. Its like the NFL, if we played again next week... bama might when in the blowout.
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:36 pm to 615tider
quote:
I understand game planning, preparation etc. falls under "coaching". But I'm talking a little more in-game coaching.
Game planning is the basis for in-game coaching. These guys aren't just winging it on gameday. We were outclassed in regards to gameplanning and if you were reading between the lines he alluded to that at halftime.
"They're running some copycat stuff."
The translation there is we prepared for what Clemson does on offense. What Clemson did is basically take looks that our opponents ran this year that gave us trouble, and did that.
By "giving us trouble" I don't necessarily mean plays that gashed us for long touchdowns. I mean you can see on film when players aren't sure pre-snap what they're supposed to be doing. At that point you just snap the ball and locate the guy that is lost. They did that repeatedly. They didn't do the whole "focus on us" routine in the game prep. They figured out what we couldn't defend and ran that. As good as our defense has been over the years, when we get looks we don't see on film, there's always panic and confusion.
It's very likely that clemson has been repping a lot of these plays all year long in preparation for this game, because their schedule affords them that luxury
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:37 pm to 615tider
Saban has stated that before the game he was concerned about the back end of the D being able to handle the Clemson WR's. They kept as many people back there as they could when our D-line showed they could manage the run reasonably well. He elected to defend the pass with people rather than chaos behind the LoS. We had a speed issue at one of the corners and a speed issue with the edge rush. Deadly combination with the WR's and QB that Clemson brought to the game.
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:42 pm to prevatt33
quote:
Locksley guided the most explosive Bama offense in modern history,
It was also the most talented offense in UA history. It wasn't hard to score a lot of points and rack up yards.
Posted on 1/9/19 at 4:54 pm to 615tider
quote:
What are your thoughts?
Saban's philosophy is that if everybody just does their job like they are supposed to things like gameplan and strategy largely don't matter.
Saban doesn't like to mix things up typically. He just thinks everybody should do things the way they are supposed to be done and everything will be ok.
This obviously has been working tremendously well throughout Saban's career.
However on the rare occasion he finds himself in a game where things just are not working at all, he sort of is slow to adjust things. He expects the players to just execute the failing gameplan rather than change the gameplan.
Posted on 1/9/19 at 5:09 pm to Tw1st3d
quote:
They kept as many people back there as they could when our D-line showed they could manage the run reasonably well
I thought we looked better in Dime than we did in Nickle. Not sure why we started in Dime and then played nickle for 2 quarters.
Posted on 1/9/19 at 5:12 pm to PEPE
quote:
he sort of is slow to adjust things. He expects the players to just execute the failing gameplan rather than change the gameplan
I disagree here. We've been excellent at halftime adjustments for the entirety of Saban's tenure, and almost always outscheme our opponents in that regard.
Posted on 1/10/19 at 1:09 am to 615tider
Saban is a great coach and we're lucky to have him but even he'll eventually admit one day this was his worst coached game in relation to the stakes of his career.
Posted on 1/10/19 at 4:01 am to 615tider
The fact that Saban replaced OC Locksley and DC with Lupoi (DC - OLB), reassigned Pannunzio (from ST/TE to RB)
as well as add
1 Enos (AHC - QB)
2 Gattis (Co-OC - WR)
3 Golding (Co-DC - ILB)
4 Kuligowski (AHC - DL)
5 Banks (ST / TE) and
6 Scott (DB)
This well may have been the best coaching job Saban has ever done and pretty well had enough talent and oversight to overcome anything except for the rigors of playing 15 games and expecially one that was backloaded so heavily... LSU, MSU, AU, UGA, OU, CU...a real murders row that took it toll and every team had the ability to take what worked from the team before and refine it and use it to stop Bama. (as CNS said leaving the field at Half - they are taking things that worked against us from previous games and using them, we havent been able to adjust for it) - I thought this was a message to his coaches... What the hell were you thinking? Others used this to hurt us and you didnt think to adj for it?
as well as add
1 Enos (AHC - QB)
2 Gattis (Co-OC - WR)
3 Golding (Co-DC - ILB)
4 Kuligowski (AHC - DL)
5 Banks (ST / TE) and
6 Scott (DB)
This well may have been the best coaching job Saban has ever done and pretty well had enough talent and oversight to overcome anything except for the rigors of playing 15 games and expecially one that was backloaded so heavily... LSU, MSU, AU, UGA, OU, CU...a real murders row that took it toll and every team had the ability to take what worked from the team before and refine it and use it to stop Bama. (as CNS said leaving the field at Half - they are taking things that worked against us from previous games and using them, we havent been able to adjust for it) - I thought this was a message to his coaches... What the hell were you thinking? Others used this to hurt us and you didnt think to adj for it?
Posted on 1/10/19 at 5:20 am to RollTide66
quote:
a real murders row that took it toll and every team had the ability to take what worked from the team before and refine it and use it to stop Bama. (as CNS said leaving the field at Half - they are taking things that worked against us from previous games and using them
And this is a very underrated point. It’s not like LSU, Miss State, Auburn, etc. were going to beat us. However, they had the coaching & personnel to find our weaknesses and expose a little more each game.
Meanwhile Clemson had the luxury of not playing anyone capable of that and probably began preparations for us months ago.
That’s the way it is though and unless the ACC gets dramatically better overnight, Clemson will still have that advantage. We will just have to overcome it.
This post was edited on 1/10/19 at 8:22 am
Posted on 1/10/19 at 5:53 am to prevatt33
quote:
We've been excellent at halftime adjustments for the entirety of Saban's tenure, and almost always outscheme our opponents in that regard.
That's true but its also been the case where at times, we needed immediate in-game adjustments BEFORE and after halftime.
We also could've used timeouts better. Dabo used his timeouts like a genius Monday night.
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