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re: Brandon Kennedy transferring
Posted on 5/16/18 at 10:50 am to 14&Counting
Posted on 5/16/18 at 10:50 am to 14&Counting
I get what everyone is saying, I just don't consider a student breaking the contract by asking for a waiver or exemption, which as far as I can tell is a mechanism that is part of the contract.
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Posted on 5/16/18 at 11:02 am to Carlton
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With that being said most grads choose to go back to the same school for a grad degree, go to another P5 conference or go Group of 6/Division II/III. I doubt you are going to see and influx of grads jumping to conference rivals.
Maybe a big reason most grads are making those choices is because of transfer release restrictions against transfering within their conference and scheduled opponents. It's silly to say that elimination of restrictions won't have any significant impact.
Posted on 5/16/18 at 12:03 pm to TidalSurge1
I don't see how that is silly, I could be wrong in the end but there is nothing silly or off base about what I am saying.
That could be the case but I would wager it is more on the fact that they return because they are playing at their current school like SDH and Tony Brown were last year or they are not cutting it at D1/Power 5 level of competition. This is a little different but look at the 7 players who left Ole Miss recently to play immediately cause of the Hugh Freeze situation, only one went in conference.
ETA: Looking at the grad transfer tracker site football is up to about 180 total committed grad transfers so far. Just eyeballing the 110 who have destinations but about half are moving up or down from their previous level of competition. Currently there are 16 expected SEC grad transfers this year.
Definitely with AP courses and redshirts more students are graduating early but again how significant is that number? How many more than the 117 from 2016 along with the other graduates who stayed was prevented on going where they actually wanted to go due that rule. You believe it is likely significant I would wager against it.
You would have to had graduated early, not be happy with your situation at your current institution, and have a rival school in conference that has that specific need and wants to bring you in and use a scholarship on you likely for one year of eligibility. It just doesn't seem like that would be frequent that is why I don't see this being a huge problem.
The reality is this stipulation is going to end in the near future. Most conferences seem fine with granting the waiver.
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Maybe a big reason most grads are making those choices is because of transfer release restrictions against transfering within their conference and scheduled opponents.
That could be the case but I would wager it is more on the fact that they return because they are playing at their current school like SDH and Tony Brown were last year or they are not cutting it at D1/Power 5 level of competition. This is a little different but look at the 7 players who left Ole Miss recently to play immediately cause of the Hugh Freeze situation, only one went in conference.
ETA: Looking at the grad transfer tracker site football is up to about 180 total committed grad transfers so far. Just eyeballing the 110 who have destinations but about half are moving up or down from their previous level of competition. Currently there are 16 expected SEC grad transfers this year.
Definitely with AP courses and redshirts more students are graduating early but again how significant is that number? How many more than the 117 from 2016 along with the other graduates who stayed was prevented on going where they actually wanted to go due that rule. You believe it is likely significant I would wager against it.
You would have to had graduated early, not be happy with your situation at your current institution, and have a rival school in conference that has that specific need and wants to bring you in and use a scholarship on you likely for one year of eligibility. It just doesn't seem like that would be frequent that is why I don't see this being a huge problem.
The reality is this stipulation is going to end in the near future. Most conferences seem fine with granting the waiver.
This post was edited on 5/16/18 at 12:36 pm
Posted on 5/16/18 at 12:12 pm to Carlton
Saban on blocking transfers: 'Do we want free agency in SEC?' (BamaOnLine)
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HOOVER, Ala. -- If the circumstance is right, Nick Saban can understand a player transferring within the conference. Otherwise, the head coach is not in favor of SEC free agency.
The topic came up Wednesday prior to the Regions Tradition Celebrity Pro-Am because of news that Alabama was blocking now-former offensive lineman Brandon Kennedy from transferring to Tennessee as a graduate transfer. Kennedy would rejoin ex-Crimson Tide defensive coordinator Jeremy Pruitt in Knoxville, Tenn., but also a team that annually faces Alabama.
Saban shared his thoughts on the matter before warming up at Greystone Golf & Country Club.
“We have an SEC rule about it -- do we want to have free agency within our conference?” Saban said. “And I think there’s certain circumstances and situations where it may be better for the student-athlete, and in those cases, I would be supportive of the guys who’s doing it. I’ve done it in the past and I’ve not done it in the past. But I do think that this whole transfer thing is something that we should look at more from 1,000 feet.
“We don’t like to get put in the middle of these rules as coaches. I think none of us do. We have rules but yet we’re not supposed to abide by the rules and they affect poorly on us when we try to support the rules that we have. And the rules that we have, we have for a reason, and I just stated the reason -- do we want free agency in the SEC so guys would be able to leave your team and go play for somebody else next year that you have to play against? And I do feel that there are cases where that may be a viable option, if it’s for academic reasons.”
Kennedy is the latest instance where a grad transfer has been blocked, at least initially, from choosing a transfer destination within the league. Most notably was former Alabama defensive back Maurice Smith, who wanted to transfer to Georgia and follow another former coordinator, Kirby Smart. Smith was eventually was allowed to transfer to Athens, Ga.
According to a report from AL.com, Kennedy is in the process of appealing.
As this is the second transfer situation UA has encountered, Saban expects it to continue to reach the spotlight and will be brought up at SEC meetings in Destin, Fla., later this month.
“I think it’s a hot topic on a national basis, and I think something’s going to happen,” Saban said. “I don’t really know what. And if the rule changes, I don’t even have a clue what it might be and what it might change to.”
This post was edited on 5/16/18 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 5/16/18 at 12:47 pm to TidalSurge1
Looser transfer rules won’t turn college football into the Wild West. Look at the numbers. (SBNation)
I am envious of your editing experience
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4. Graduate transfers in college sports have increased a lot, but they represent a tiny fraction of the athletes.
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The number of graduate transfers tripled in men’s sports and doubled in women’s sports between 2011 and 2016, according to the NCAA. But:
There were only 443 graduate transfers identified in the 2016 Division I academic performance data out of nearly 110,000 Division I student-athletes, which equates to less than one-half of 1 percent.
Even if the football grad transfer market went bananas and, say, quadrupled in one year, that would mean 3.6 graduate transfers per FBS team. Even that assumes these are all FBS transfers, not FCS.
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There’s no transfer epidemic. But there should be discussion between athletes, coaches, and families about why a player might want to leave.
Coaches should empower the athlete to make the best decision for him/herself, without treating transfers like they’re some scary new thing.
I am envious of your editing experience
This post was edited on 5/16/18 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 5/16/18 at 12:58 pm to Carlton
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sn't seem like that would be frequent that is why I don't see this being a huge problem.
Well we have had two of these now....In the Mo Smith case it bit us in the arse because we wound up having to completely reconfigure our DB situation when Eddie went down. Smith was a contributor and we needed him. Now they want to take a back-up center so what happens if our starter goes down at one of the most critical positions on offense?
Again the kid can leave and play where he wants but I am tired of Bama serving as a feeder school for the likes of UGA, UT, or AU UNLESS Saban is OK with the transfer. They recruit our coaches, staff, etc. and that's just business....I get it and we can't do anything about it....but when they are trying to poach our players, I start to have an issue. They already recruit against us.
Again he can go where he wants as long as its outside the conference. There are 120 Div 1 schools. He could probably go to the likes of Vandy or State and Coach would probably OK it.....but if you are talking AU, UGA, or Tennessee? Maybe its not cool particularly if we are counting on him for depth.....
This post was edited on 5/16/18 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 5/16/18 at 1:10 pm to 14&Counting
Smith caused us a problem because he was leaving and we needed him. Regardless of where he landed, that was the major problem for us but don't take this as dismissing the in conference transfer part.
I get that we don't want Kennedy to go to AU, UGA, or Tennessee but again I don't believe that will happen that often. There are only 16 expected grad transfers from the SEC this year and only 1 transfered in conference. Most went on to weaker competition. My belief is in the long run we would probably benefit more than other schools actually, however my suppport for this centers around the student.
When did we become a feeder school for other SEC programs? My guess is we probably have had nearly as many kids transfer in from other SEC schools as those who have left and ended up somewhere else in the SEC.
I get that we don't want Kennedy to go to AU, UGA, or Tennessee but again I don't believe that will happen that often. There are only 16 expected grad transfers from the SEC this year and only 1 transfered in conference. Most went on to weaker competition. My belief is in the long run we would probably benefit more than other schools actually, however my suppport for this centers around the student.
When did we become a feeder school for other SEC programs? My guess is we probably have had nearly as many kids transfer in from other SEC schools as those who have left and ended up somewhere else in the SEC.
This post was edited on 5/16/18 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 5/16/18 at 1:23 pm to Carlton
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however my suppport for this centers around the student.
This isn't about academics, it's about playing time
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hen did we become a feeder school for other SEC programs?
I am referring more to the hiring of our assistants and staff who go on to recruit against us. Again, that is just the business of the coaching profession. I start to draw the line if it impacts our players and depth......again with the caveat of a Saban approval. In the aforementioned article, we have approved some and not others for in-conference transfers.
Further, i don't see us benefiting so much since we recruit and then develop the recruits at such a high level. The only transfer that I can think of that we were dead serious about taking was Braxton Miller but Urban convinced him to stay.
Posted on 5/16/18 at 1:40 pm to 14&Counting
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This isn't about academics, it's about playing time
Don't get me wrong that is most likely the case but to me that is irrelevant because down the road it could not be for another student. One of these schools could have the best cow insemination graduate programs in the country that they want to be a part of. That kid should be able to go there and play football if they so choose in my opinion and not be limited by a previous institution.
Just be clear because I don't think I have said this, I have no problem with what Saban is doing. He is doing what he feels is best for Bama with in the rules. I just beleive a) it is a bad rule and b) you will lose out in the long run anyway with players already successfully getting the waivers.
I don't believe the depth point applies here. The kids are leaving regardless it is just where they go. It is a depth issue for us whether they go to UGA or Nebraska. Competing against it is obviously another story.
I'm not sure what you mean by Miller being the only grad transfer. Coker, Mullaney, Dieter and the new kicker are all grad transfers I know off the top of my head. We where going to take Minishaw the QB from ECU this year.
This post was edited on 5/16/18 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 5/16/18 at 1:48 pm to Carlton
The article you posted appears to be using numbers and percentages across all sports. Losing one key football player due to the "free agency" many are advocating can be a big deal.
Kennedy is very close to being Bama's starting center. 5th-year Sr. Ross Pierschbacher appears to be a little ahead of him coming out of spring camp. Pierschbacher could be injured or need to move to guard due to other injuries. Season ending injuries could even happen in fall camp.
OC is a critical position, partly because the OC makes the OL presnap blocking assignment calls. UT or AU poaching a valuable player like Kennedy is a big deal. Losing him could cost UA and all Kennedy's UA teammates wins, titles, etc.
Moreover, it's fairly questionable whether it's even in Kennedy's best interest to transfer from UA. I don't think it is. I think he's been tampered with and enticed by UT, and possibly AU too.
This case has nothing to do with Kennedy needing to transfer to another SEC school or scheduled Bama opponent for the purpose of earning his desired graduate degree(s).
There is nothing wrong with the reasonable transfer release restrictions that schools have now and need to have. The schools can and very often do waive them. It depends on the situation.
Kennedy is very close to being Bama's starting center. 5th-year Sr. Ross Pierschbacher appears to be a little ahead of him coming out of spring camp. Pierschbacher could be injured or need to move to guard due to other injuries. Season ending injuries could even happen in fall camp.
OC is a critical position, partly because the OC makes the OL presnap blocking assignment calls. UT or AU poaching a valuable player like Kennedy is a big deal. Losing him could cost UA and all Kennedy's UA teammates wins, titles, etc.
Moreover, it's fairly questionable whether it's even in Kennedy's best interest to transfer from UA. I don't think it is. I think he's been tampered with and enticed by UT, and possibly AU too.
This case has nothing to do with Kennedy needing to transfer to another SEC school or scheduled Bama opponent for the purpose of earning his desired graduate degree(s).
There is nothing wrong with the reasonable transfer release restrictions that schools have now and need to have. The schools can and very often do waive them. It depends on the situation.
This post was edited on 5/16/18 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 5/16/18 at 1:52 pm to Carlton
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I'm not sure what you mean by Miller being the only grad transfer. Coker, Mullaney, Dieter and the new kicker are all grad transfers
Yeah...I completely forgot.....stand corrected on that but where did those guys come from?
Miller - tOSU
Coker - FSU
Mullaney - WSU
Dieter - Bowling Green
All came from outside the SEC. Once again, Bama can't prohibit the transfer outside the SEC it's only in-conference we are discussing here.
Posted on 5/16/18 at 2:02 pm to TidalSurge1
Tampering and poaching are wrong and it should be dealt with harshly if found. However I do not believe we should prevent where kids should attend because of the potential of tampering.
What is most likely is Kennedy was transferring regardless just like Smith was. I don't deny that is more of an issue if he moves in conference but unless there is proof he was tampered with that is a different issue than exercising your option to transfer and choosing where you want to go.
As far as the numbers are concerned there were 117 graduate transfers in FBS college football in 2016 less than 1 per division one program.
LINK
We are up to about 180 this year overall. As I stated before 16 were out of the SEC and most pursued non power 5 opportunities.
What is most likely is Kennedy was transferring regardless just like Smith was. I don't deny that is more of an issue if he moves in conference but unless there is proof he was tampered with that is a different issue than exercising your option to transfer and choosing where you want to go.
As far as the numbers are concerned there were 117 graduate transfers in FBS college football in 2016 less than 1 per division one program.
quote:
Outside of beach volleyball where an initial influx of graduate transfers has been noted, graduate transfers are most prevalent on a percentage basis in men’s basketball (1.9 percent of current players are grad transfers), women’s basketball, men’s and women’s track and field, and football. Only one-half of 1 percent of men’s football student-athletes were graduate transfers in 2016. However, the number of such cases has increased sevenfold since 2011 (17 in 2011, 117 in 2016). Trends across all Division I sports are shown in the full study results.
LINK
We are up to about 180 this year overall. As I stated before 16 were out of the SEC and most pursued non power 5 opportunities.
This post was edited on 5/16/18 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 5/16/18 at 2:09 pm to 14&Counting
I understand your point that they can go to 120 other schools and that there is no restriction. We just disagree about if they should be able to go to any school. I wasn't sure why you brought up our previous grad transfers to begin with.
Posted on 5/16/18 at 3:08 pm to TidalSurge1
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Moreover, it's fairly questionable whether it's even in Kennedy's best interest to transfer from UA. I don't think it is. I think he's been tampered with and enticed by UT, and possibly AU too.
This case has nothing to do with Kennedy needing to transfer to another SEC school or scheduled Bama opponent for the purpose of earning his desired graduate degree(s).
This may not be in Kennedy's best interest but that is a decision for him and his family to make. As I said before if this is tampering that is wrong but a different issue. Again I would tend to agree with you that he is being influenced by football but we have no idea. And in the future if some kid graduates and wants to go to A&M for engineering because it is a top 15 program and wants to play Division 1 football I think that they should be able to without restriction. I completely understand that you might disagree with that depending on the circumstances.
Now Saban is doing what is best for the program and I have no problem with that. But I disagree that this is a pandora's box, the numbers don't indicate an influx of intraconference transfers.
I would be for a deadline to decide prior to spring practice but beyond that I think it should be lifted. The argument against lifting the restrictions to me just sounds like a slippery slope fallacy.
This post was edited on 5/16/18 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 5/16/18 at 3:19 pm to Carlton
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Tampering and poaching are wrong and it should be dealt with harshly if found.
Yeah - and that is what it feels like to me. In fact it was pretty well established that Tucker was talking to Smith and his Mom and I have to believe its going on here.
Look - I am not interested in dying on this hill: it's just the rule is in place for a good reason and we are seeing why.....see the earlier post on Nick's view on the subject.
Just my opinion.
Posted on 5/16/18 at 8:15 pm to 14&Counting
No worries. There are plenty of rules that are put in place for good reason that turn out to be ineffective, unnecessary or do more harm than good. I might say this one may touch on some of those.
With that being said we will probably know in the near future as I doubt this rule is long for this world. If the SEC becomes the wild west of graduate transfers, tampering, our depth is ruined and our investment in players wasted costing us championships I will take full responsibility for the destruction of the game. My guess is though it will likely lead to a hand full of guys changing schools every couple of years.
With that being said we will probably know in the near future as I doubt this rule is long for this world. If the SEC becomes the wild west of graduate transfers, tampering, our depth is ruined and our investment in players wasted costing us championships I will take full responsibility for the destruction of the game. My guess is though it will likely lead to a hand full of guys changing schools every couple of years.
This post was edited on 5/16/18 at 8:42 pm
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