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Alabama's Out Of State Recruitment Criticized
Posted on 3/27/19 at 10:40 am
Posted on 3/27/19 at 10:40 am
A study released Tuesday showing state schools focus on recruiting out-of-state students from white, wealthy areas labeled the University of Alabama as an “extreme case” of the trend.
UA's enrollment of non-resident freshman “exploded” from 626 students in the 2002-2003 school year to 2,406 last year, the report found. At the same time, state appropriations to the school declined from $232 million in 2007-2008 to $158 million in 2016-2017.
Even after controlling the study for school size, price and number of students that passed statewide exams, “the University of Alabama was one of the few that showed significant racial bias,”
LINK
UA's enrollment of non-resident freshman “exploded” from 626 students in the 2002-2003 school year to 2,406 last year, the report found. At the same time, state appropriations to the school declined from $232 million in 2007-2008 to $158 million in 2016-2017.
Even after controlling the study for school size, price and number of students that passed statewide exams, “the University of Alabama was one of the few that showed significant racial bias,”
LINK
Posted on 3/27/19 at 10:41 am to 14&Counting
AL.com is almost unreadable
Posted on 3/27/19 at 10:47 am to 14&Counting
Yea - that has gotten out of control. Eye roll at the racial aspect of it, but 60/40 OOS kids is ridiculous.
Also, 2003 non-resident freshman checking in!
Also, 2003 non-resident freshman checking in!
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:00 am to 14&Counting
quote:
At the same time, state appropriations to the school declined from $232 million in 2007-2008 to $158 million in 2016-2017.
Seems like they know what they're doing.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:03 am to 14&Counting
How dare universities try to attract smart wealthy kids.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:05 am to 14&Counting
No other choice when there is state proration
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:07 am to 14&Counting
Having done and organized many education and community outreach events during my time at UA I can say that most of the kids in the black belt region have no business going to college.
Not all, there's a lot of untapped potential in these regions too, but for most of the kids in the black belt, sending them to college would be a disservice to them.
Not all, there's a lot of untapped potential in these regions too, but for most of the kids in the black belt, sending them to college would be a disservice to them.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:08 am to SummerOfGeorge
Do you blame UA? They are going where the money is. If you read the study, they also reported how much the state had cut funding to Bama which was tens of millions of dollars over the past 10 years. It’s not a racial bias, that’s a bullshite unwarranted jab at Alabama, it’s an economic bias. Alabama isn’t recruiting kids from the Black Belt across the state because they are mostly black, they aren’t recruiting them because it’s one of the poorest socioeconomic regions in this hemisphere. And along with that goes poorly educated. So IF the kids even qualified for admission (which they desperately need) you’re almost certainly going to have to give them financial assistance to enroll them.
Yes, I’m a bit biased. My out of state kid is visiting the honors college by invitation in a couple of weeks and I certainly would like her to get a scholarship.
Yes, I’m a bit biased. My out of state kid is visiting the honors college by invitation in a couple of weeks and I certainly would like her to get a scholarship.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:17 am to phil4bama
quote:
It’s not a racial bias, that’s a bullshite unwarranted jab at Alabama,
At least in my experience, the idea that college admissions is biased against blacks is ridiculous.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:20 am to 14&Counting
The entire story is shite.
State reduces funding. University recruits additional funding sources. You do not recruit funding from people who cannot afford to pay the out of state rate.
IL has attacked UofA in many stories over the last 3 years. The main reason, Alabama is recruiting high end students who do not get local scholarships because the state uses race and socioeconomic basis for awarding scholarships rather than merit.
Give the kid a partial scholarship to Alabama. The kid still pays out of state on lodging and the remainder of the no scholarship tuition. Alabama makes more money. IL loses high end high scholar students. Alabama gains them. Mental and economic power transfers toward Alabama and away from IL because that is the result of the choices they made.
U of A and the state of Alabama wins, IL loses. You play the social justice game and you lose the brain drain game U of A is playing against your stupidity. Check...just not yet checkmate.
State reduces funding. University recruits additional funding sources. You do not recruit funding from people who cannot afford to pay the out of state rate.
IL has attacked UofA in many stories over the last 3 years. The main reason, Alabama is recruiting high end students who do not get local scholarships because the state uses race and socioeconomic basis for awarding scholarships rather than merit.
Give the kid a partial scholarship to Alabama. The kid still pays out of state on lodging and the remainder of the no scholarship tuition. Alabama makes more money. IL loses high end high scholar students. Alabama gains them. Mental and economic power transfers toward Alabama and away from IL because that is the result of the choices they made.
U of A and the state of Alabama wins, IL loses. You play the social justice game and you lose the brain drain game U of A is playing against your stupidity. Check...just not yet checkmate.
This post was edited on 3/27/19 at 11:24 am
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:24 am to Tw1st3d
I largely agree. It's pretty incredible how many really smart friends I have from the Chicago area.
However, many of them head right back to the Midwest after graduation. The state needs more good jobs to keep those students here.
However, many of them head right back to the Midwest after graduation. The state needs more good jobs to keep those students here.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:40 am to TomRollTideRitter
I have another gripe about that study. My kid scored in the 97th percentile on the SAT and ACT. Ask me how many times UF or FSU, the flagship schools in her native state have contacted her. I can count them on one hand. She’s had more interest from Miami, FIU, USF, and UCF.
Meanwhile, UA has invited her to numerous events, invited her to tour the honors college, really made her feel wanted. It makes her mad. She’s raised right and loves Bama anyway (she’s attended 2 natties in person) but she feels like UF has been FU instead of UF. It’s really rather irritating.
So if Bama is actively recruiting out of state kids and Florida isn’t even trying very hard to retain the best and brightest at home, who is to blame??
Meanwhile, UA has invited her to numerous events, invited her to tour the honors college, really made her feel wanted. It makes her mad. She’s raised right and loves Bama anyway (she’s attended 2 natties in person) but she feels like UF has been FU instead of UF. It’s really rather irritating.
So if Bama is actively recruiting out of state kids and Florida isn’t even trying very hard to retain the best and brightest at home, who is to blame??
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:46 am to TomRollTideRitter
More good jobs... The U of A is drawing the kids here. It is not the U of A's job to keep them here.
As for good jobs, they are all over Alabama if you get the right education. Math/Science/Engineering/Finance/Medical are the fields that are driving Alabama. Huntsville - Space/Aviation/Engineering. Birmingham - Finance/Medical/Energy/Construction. Mobile - Paper/Lumber/Energy/Chemical/Aviation/Engineering.
You want to trade stocks or run a hedge fund - that is not Alabama. You want to make something? Alabama has it going on. I make my living in the robotics manufacturing sectors. Alabama has the BEST industrial robotics training program in the nation. It if free to Alabama companies and runs in conjunction with AIDT (Alabama Industrial Development Training).
The U of A prepares kids well for the industries that thrive in Alabama. Alabama also does a great job in communications and journalism - most of those "good jobs" are not here when they graduate.
As for good jobs, they are all over Alabama if you get the right education. Math/Science/Engineering/Finance/Medical are the fields that are driving Alabama. Huntsville - Space/Aviation/Engineering. Birmingham - Finance/Medical/Energy/Construction. Mobile - Paper/Lumber/Energy/Chemical/Aviation/Engineering.
You want to trade stocks or run a hedge fund - that is not Alabama. You want to make something? Alabama has it going on. I make my living in the robotics manufacturing sectors. Alabama has the BEST industrial robotics training program in the nation. It if free to Alabama companies and runs in conjunction with AIDT (Alabama Industrial Development Training).
The U of A prepares kids well for the industries that thrive in Alabama. Alabama also does a great job in communications and journalism - most of those "good jobs" are not here when they graduate.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:51 am to 14&Counting
No idea how any of this relates to school rankings, but it's interesting to see how quickly UA is dropping in the US News rankings:
2012: 75
2013: 77
2014: 86
2015: 88
2016: 96
2017: 103
2018: 110
2019: 129
2012: 75
2013: 77
2014: 86
2015: 88
2016: 96
2017: 103
2018: 110
2019: 129
Posted on 3/27/19 at 12:35 pm to Sl0thstronautEsq
So while Alabama is recruiting more smart, affluent kids from especially the northeast, their US News ranking is dropping? Hidden agenda?
US News ranking is criticized as shite by educators and smart journalists daily. It’s become common knowledge that schools can game the system and even influence them with advertising in the magazine, etc. Just goes to show you.
US News ranking is criticized as shite by educators and smart journalists daily. It’s become common knowledge that schools can game the system and even influence them with advertising in the magazine, etc. Just goes to show you.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 12:38 pm to phil4bama
quote:
So while Alabama is recruiting more smart, affluent kids from especially the northeast, their US News ranking is dropping? Hidden agenda?
Fake News: How is that Bama has been raising their game for decade to he point we are criticized for taking all these smart affluent kids form out of state yet we fall in those rankings?
Posted on 3/27/19 at 6:19 pm to Sl0thstronautEsq
quote:
No idea how any of this relates to school rankings, but it's interesting to see how quickly UA is dropping in the US News rankings: 2012: 75 2013: 77 2014: 86 2015: 88 2016: 96 2017: 103 2018: 110 2019: 129
USNWR has made huge changes to its rankings criteria in the last ten years. It now favors schools that offer more non merit based financial aid, like Pell Grants. But UA HAS suffered from not raising its six year grad rate as much as other schools like Auburn. The problem is that UA still admits many more of the very students its critics claims it needs more of, than virtually every other flagship in the nation. While it is true that UA now enrolls more top students (ACT of 32 or higher) than any other SEC school, save for Texas A&M, it also enrolls far more of the lower tier students (ACT of 22 or less). With that range of quality, the lower tier students are a burden on the ability to rise in the rankings.
For some reason, UA, more than any other school in Alabama, gets all the negative attention when it comes to race. But it still enrolls far more Blacks than Auburn does, so it is really unfair.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 6:21 pm to 14&Counting
I wish Carlton would come in and post. He more than likely has better insight on this topic than most of us.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 6:28 pm to InGAButLoveBama
UA is definitely in a catch 22 situation. It is condemned for not recruiting more Black students. But it is also ridiculed for enrolling so many lower tier students. In truth, relative to other state flagships, it enrolls far more Black students, AND lower tier non-Black students. Its enrollment of Black students is especially strong in total numbers relative to other schools, but even in terms of percentage of students as well. UA enrolls a significantly higher percentage of Blacks than schools like Auburn,Clemson, UGA, etc.
Unlike Connecticut, and other states with a relatively low percentage of Black students, Alabama has a very high percentage of Black students, and lower percentage of non Black BUT non White students that tend to have higher ACT/SAT than Black non Whites (East Asians for example have the highest avg IQ score). Even upper income Black students have a lower avg SAT than lower income Whites. I am not trying to start a big argument here. But it is a fact. I am not sharing my opinion about the cause of that huge racial gap, cause it doesn't matter. The fact remains that it is much harder to find top tier students in parts of states with very high percentages of Black students.
If UA wants to go back up in the rankings, it must improve its six year grad rate and peer reputation score, two of the biggest components of USNWR criteria. It has begun to improve its six year grad rate. Last Fall, its six year grad rate had improved from 68% to 72%, but going forward, it will be hard to improve that rate much further, and the view its peer institutions have of it, as long as it enrolls so many lower tier students.
I wish alumni would demand UA increase its standards. If anyone criticizes UA for not enrolling enough Black students, and not enrolling enough lower tier students of all races, all it has to do it is point to Auburn and ask why it must face a higher standard.
Unlike Connecticut, and other states with a relatively low percentage of Black students, Alabama has a very high percentage of Black students, and lower percentage of non Black BUT non White students that tend to have higher ACT/SAT than Black non Whites (East Asians for example have the highest avg IQ score). Even upper income Black students have a lower avg SAT than lower income Whites. I am not trying to start a big argument here. But it is a fact. I am not sharing my opinion about the cause of that huge racial gap, cause it doesn't matter. The fact remains that it is much harder to find top tier students in parts of states with very high percentages of Black students.
If UA wants to go back up in the rankings, it must improve its six year grad rate and peer reputation score, two of the biggest components of USNWR criteria. It has begun to improve its six year grad rate. Last Fall, its six year grad rate had improved from 68% to 72%, but going forward, it will be hard to improve that rate much further, and the view its peer institutions have of it, as long as it enrolls so many lower tier students.
I wish alumni would demand UA increase its standards. If anyone criticizes UA for not enrolling enough Black students, and not enrolling enough lower tier students of all races, all it has to do it is point to Auburn and ask why it must face a higher standard.
This post was edited on 3/27/19 at 6:56 pm
Posted on 3/27/19 at 6:37 pm to InGAButLoveBama
I've gone on record that I'm not the biggest fan of the whole increase school size and recruit for the sake of making $$$$. I also oppose affirmative action policies. I just wonder what the landscape is going to look like with the college bubble pops.
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