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re: Revisiting Newman & Daniels before UF
Posted on 11/2/20 at 4:44 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 11/2/20 at 4:44 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
We're in a pickle at QB and it's due to bad timing and not being able to pull in and keep several game-ready QBs at once.
We're in this pickle because of Fromm. It's sadly ironic that in spite of Field's potential, Kirby stuck with Fromm. So Fields looks for greener pastures and transfers. And even after Kirby exhibited loyalty and confidence in Fromm, Fromm proceeds to forego his Senior which I'm sure our coaching staff didn't expect. Then Fromm gets drafted by the Buffalo Bills in the 5th round.
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Posted on 11/2/20 at 4:55 pm to GurleyGirl
quote:I partially agree. I was extremely disappointed that Fromm left early. He should've stuck around, but then again, there was (and is still) a significant portion of our fan base that thought he was to blame for our offensive woes last season. Being trashed week in and week out probably didn't sit well with him or his family when he knew he could pick up a paycheck by going early.
We're in this pickle because of Fromm. It's sadly ironic that in spite of Field's potential, Kirby stuck with Fromm. So Fields looks for greener pastures and transfers. And even after Kirby exhibited loyalty and confidence in Fromm, Fromm proceeds to forego his Senior which I'm sure our coaching staff didn't expect. Then Fromm gets drafted by the Buffalo Bills in the 5th round.
Still, we should've been better prepared for his departure as it was a topic of discussion going into the season last year. Getting Newman was excellent but I don't think CKS and staff anticipated him jetting with a few weeks left before the season. That really sucked.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 5:03 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
He should've stuck around, but then again, there was (and is still) a significant portion of our fan base that thought he was to blame for our offensive woes last season.
Fromm wasn't entirely responsible, but he was still part of the problem.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 5:08 pm to Buzz Killington
quote:Everyone on offense was part of the problem to one degree or another. The question was how much? Fromm had shown for two years prior that he was capable of an effective passing game. Either he had a hard drop-off in his third season or his receivers as a unit were not nearly as good as the seasons prior. Based on what I saw, I landed on the receivers for my judgement.
Fromm wasn't entirely responsible, but he was still part of the problem.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 6:15 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Fromm had shown for two years prior that he was capable of an effective passing game. Either he had a hard drop-off in his third season or his receivers as a unit were not nearly as good as the seasons prior. Based on what I saw, I landed on the receivers for my judgement.
Yep, Fromm is not an NFL level QB but as you say he was effective for 2 college seasons so most of the issue last season was on the receivers and the OC for not finding ways to make the passing game more effective.
Let me put it this way: if Fromm was our QB vs Florida this week, I would feel a lot better about our chances. The only way I see Bennett being effective is to use him like a spread/option type QB with options to run, pitch out or pass on the run. He simply isn't tall enough to be an effective pocket passer. I mean how many interceptions and batted down passes are required for our coaching staff to see the obvious.
This post was edited on 11/2/20 at 6:55 pm
Posted on 11/2/20 at 9:06 pm to Gtmodawg
quote:
but Fromm stunk up the joint in 2018 against LSU...many coaches would have done to him what this staff did to Mathis against Arkansas under those conditions
Doubtful.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 11:44 pm to chillmonster
quote:
I don't see the drawback.
Or you could get a Jacob Park situation - he transfers out, and the team he left immediately starts winning.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 11:57 pm to chillmonster
quote:
Here's the thing though. Either the staff made a terrible decision to start Mathis in the first place because he doesn't belong on a college field and they couldn't tell or he's better than what Stetson has showed in the past game and a half.
What does either scenario say about our experts' management of the QB position?
Let's say you're in charge of US fighter squadrons in the Pacific theater, in January 1942. You've got to choose between the P-40, the P-39, and the F-4 to go against the Japanese Zero. All of your options are slower, shorter ranged, more lightly armed, and less maneuverable. You've got to put one out there, so which one do you pick? It's not like any of the 3 were designed to be bad (and the P-40 and F-4 turned out to be adequate when new tactics were created, while the P-39 turned out to be really good in a different role), they weren't what ended up being needed at the time. Sometimes, all you have are bad options and the best you can do is pick the least bad one.
That could easily be this year for us. Due to some pretty crazy events, we don't have what we need, so we've just got to do what we can with what we've got.
Posted on 11/3/20 at 4:23 am to djsdawg
quote:
quote:but Fromm stunk up the joint in 2018 against LSU...many coaches would have done to him what this staff did to Mathis against Arkansas under those conditions Doubtful.
You may be right considering that the 2018 LSU game was not as critical as the SEC CG / Natty when Saban had no real choice in the matter.
The level of trust in this staff to correct the QB situation is ebbing, that's for certain. They can correct the ship but it better happen within a couple of seasons or Smart will indeed prove to merely be a good coach and not a legendary one.
Posted on 11/3/20 at 6:53 am to FaCubeItches
quote:
F-4 turned out to be adequate when new tactics were created,
This is a better analogy than most will recognize.
The key is we need new tactics aka we need to change our offense to accommodate Bennett's strength which is mobility. Setting him up directly behind tall linemen is doomed to failure.
Create blocking schemes that allow him to roll out on most downs.
Run a dive often enough to keep them honest up the middle.
Then fake the dive and instead of play-action roll out with a trailing TE who blocks for the run and then comes off the block as a receiver.
One thing for sure: Bennett will see the field a lot better out from behind linemen who are much bigger and taller than he is.
This post was edited on 11/3/20 at 8:48 am
Posted on 11/3/20 at 9:53 am to GurleyGirl
It is too easy to spy a QB and eat him up on a rollout.
The 2nd half of the Kentucky game, their overhang defender didnt attack and just read the play (like a spy). The second Bennet left the pocket, he would be a duck for a crashing OLB.
You think a DLs hand while engaged on an OL affects Bennett throwing? Try a free run at him with both hands up.
The 2nd half of the Kentucky game, their overhang defender didnt attack and just read the play (like a spy). The second Bennet left the pocket, he would be a duck for a crashing OLB.
You think a DLs hand while engaged on an OL affects Bennett throwing? Try a free run at him with both hands up.
Posted on 11/3/20 at 10:08 am to meansonny
I respectfully disagree but then that's why we share individual opinions on this board. :)
Objectively your scenario is exactly what I am talking about. If the the outside linebackers and DB's respond by rushing in to stop the QB, then that's going to leave receivers open behind them.
If the pass/run option is executed proficiently, it is a no win situation for the defense: come up stop run and the QB throws over you, stay back and the QB or a trailing TE or RB gets 4 or 5 yards running or with a short pass in the flats.
West Virginia absolutely wore us out with those kind of plays back in that infamous upset 2006 Sugar Bowl.
Objectively your scenario is exactly what I am talking about. If the the outside linebackers and DB's respond by rushing in to stop the QB, then that's going to leave receivers open behind them.
If the pass/run option is executed proficiently, it is a no win situation for the defense: come up stop run and the QB throws over you, stay back and the QB or a trailing TE or RB gets 4 or 5 yards running or with a short pass in the flats.
West Virginia absolutely wore us out with those kind of plays back in that infamous upset 2006 Sugar Bowl.
Posted on 11/3/20 at 10:59 am to GurleyGirl
quote:
roll out on most downs.
I like a roll out every once in a while but most of the time will not work. You're basically cutting the field in half for the defense.
Posted on 11/3/20 at 11:42 am to GurleyGirl
I dont mind agreeing to disagree.
The problem is that Tennessee adjusted and rushed 3 with the ILB spying Bennett. The second an inexperienced QB leaves the pocket, he is a duck for the spy. You can claim that there is a window behind the linebacker, but there are 7 other defenders in coverage (he wasnt in the scheme to defend a window).
Against Kentucky, they were still rushing 4, so that left 6 other defenders in cover 3. But the second an inexperienced QB left the pocket, the overhang would pressure and rush a throw.
For every simple suggestion to rollout the QB, it is an even simpler adjustment by the defense to pressure the QB without gambling on the backend (he has no protection on the rollout... just his wheels and pump fakes).
Bennett also limits himself to 1/3 of the field on a rollout because he doesnt have the arm strength to throw against his body.
Unfortunately if our primary objective is to stop getting balls batted down, we need to stop calling slants. How badly do we want to make the primary objective about batted balls?
The problem is that Tennessee adjusted and rushed 3 with the ILB spying Bennett. The second an inexperienced QB leaves the pocket, he is a duck for the spy. You can claim that there is a window behind the linebacker, but there are 7 other defenders in coverage (he wasnt in the scheme to defend a window).
Against Kentucky, they were still rushing 4, so that left 6 other defenders in cover 3. But the second an inexperienced QB left the pocket, the overhang would pressure and rush a throw.
For every simple suggestion to rollout the QB, it is an even simpler adjustment by the defense to pressure the QB without gambling on the backend (he has no protection on the rollout... just his wheels and pump fakes).
Bennett also limits himself to 1/3 of the field on a rollout because he doesnt have the arm strength to throw against his body.
Unfortunately if our primary objective is to stop getting balls batted down, we need to stop calling slants. How badly do we want to make the primary objective about batted balls?
This post was edited on 11/3/20 at 11:44 am
Posted on 11/3/20 at 11:45 am to tgdawg68
quote:
I like a roll out every once in a while but most of the time will not work. You're basically cutting the field in half for the defense.
While true, that means that the offense can flood that side of the field that is only defended by half of the defense. Defensive players on the opposite side of the field are taught to stay home and rightfully so to prevent against a reverse or similar play.
Translation: it literally cuts both ways only the offense knows the play and have multiple options.
As an aside, I really want Georgia to recruit dual-threat QB's like Fields. I get it; Fields didn't want to wait and frankly I can't blame him but we should continue to recruit that type of athlete at QB because it is those type of players who are winning national championships for other teams: LSU, Clemson and Alabama most recently.
Posted on 11/3/20 at 1:58 pm to GurleyGirl
Designed roll out plays have blocking schemes to protect the QB other than a naked, which works more like a play action. It is certainly a valuable chapter in your play book. Especially when you can waggle and such.
Posted on 11/3/20 at 2:24 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
Designed roll out plays have blocking schemes to protect the QB other than a naked, which works more like a play action. It is certainly a valuable chapter in your play book. Especially when you can waggle and such.
Yep, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know exactly how that is done but I know you can line up a TE on that side who has the option to block and still become a pass receiver. And obviously a running back can do the same thing: lead the play for his QB and then also become a receiver.
You could also pull one or more linemen to lead blocking like is sometimes done with a toss-sweep.
Honestly, if you think about the advantages of any offense, with options to block and still be eligible receivers, it's a wonder that any proficient offense of equal talent as the defense can be stopped.
Posted on 11/3/20 at 5:48 pm to GurleyGirl
quote:
it's a wonder that any proficient offense of equal talent as the defense can be stopped.
All of our big plays last Saturday were disguised as blockers. Washington and Cooks downfield throws both had them disguised (cook in pass pro and washington in a run block scheme).
I'm sold on Monken. I know that the results aren't there yet. But Monken can dial up gems if we can just get comfortable calling them for our QB
Posted on 11/3/20 at 5:59 pm to meansonny
quote:
I'm sold on Monken.
I am also. He is obviously an experienced OC with a creative mind for developing situation plays and calling them at the right time. We just need better execution especially at the QB position.
As much as I love Bennett's athleticism, he has not been an accurate passer and has used poor judgement on too many occasions. If the pass isn't there, then he just needs to run the ball and get what he can; he has the speed to do it. Or just dump it out of bounds if there is a wall of defenders. But what he can't keep doing is making ill advised passes. He doesn't have either the accuracy or arm strength to drill the ball into a well covered receiver.
Posted on 11/3/20 at 6:16 pm to GurleyGirl
He reminds me of joe cox in that the worst case scenario happens on too many plays (joe cox was a much better QB, but when things broke down... the worst case scenario happened way too often).
There even is some Jake fromm in Bennetts results. Dumb bad luck. Tips for INTs. Passes deflected up at the line.
Unfortunately for Bennett, I just think his confidence is getting worse and worse each game (not something accused of by jake fromm).
There even is some Jake fromm in Bennetts results. Dumb bad luck. Tips for INTs. Passes deflected up at the line.
Unfortunately for Bennett, I just think his confidence is getting worse and worse each game (not something accused of by jake fromm).
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