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re: OT: Corona Panic 2020
Posted on 4/18/20 at 7:53 pm to BeefDawg
Posted on 4/18/20 at 7:53 pm to BeefDawg
quote:
And then, after we do this, those people who are declared too high of risk to insure, lets figure out how to help them too. Expand Medicare for them or give them access to the VA or something.
"Expand medicare"
No thanks.
Recent studies are showing better care for the uninsured than Medicare recipients with all of the healthcare providers who no longer accept Medicare. Sounds like you'd be ruining a poor system by making it worse.
If you have details of how the government solves this, I'm interested in solutions.
quote:
I also want newer systems thrown into the mix. Like subscription-based preventative/general care.
Local doctors and clinics and even hospitals start offering monthly subscriptions where people pay maybe $50/month (or whatever) directly to them, and then you get certain services offered to you for your general care, like checkups, physicals, obgyn for women, generic Rx... non-specialty/non-catastrophic type things.
This is present. At least in my town. He's a great doctor who doesn't accept any insurance. It cuts out a lot of the bullshite. He can do everything a primary care physician can. Maybe a little more. I went in there because I heard so many great things... and I got turned away because he doesn't accept insurance.
quote:
We have to get out from under the crap we have now, though. It's still being affected by the ACA. The mandates and penalties were removed, but the general rules are still in place, and they suck.
Agreed.
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Posted on 4/18/20 at 8:02 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Come on dude. Stop taking stuff out of context and at least attempt to be honest.
People don’t have time to watch his tv show and try to interpret spin his narcissistic and uneducated BS like you constantly do. Context doesn’t remove his irresponsibility and the damage done from it.
Posted on 4/18/20 at 8:05 pm to djsdawg
Posted on 4/18/20 at 9:41 pm to molardog1
So results of several studies show some interesting stuff. Just published in last few days are very well-designed studies from Iceland and Germany, and some new model updates.
Most interesting results:
1) In Iceland, which has done some of the most extensive testing and tracking anywhere, the overall population infection rate is about 1% but 50% of those who tested positive for COVID-19 never developed ANY symptoms.
2) The actual infection fatality rate for this disease is still unknown but depends a lot on the overall age and health of the country's population: Germany is showing 2.4%; South Korea is 2.1%; US is at the moment at 4%. Iceland is only at 0.50% but median age of the population in Iceland is a lot lower (only 36.5) and healthier than most industrialized nations.
Latest projections on the true, worldwide case fatality rate of COVID-19: CDC says 0.8%. Imperial College London model says 0.9%.
If this all turns out to be applicable to the US, it would suggest:
-- 3.3 million Americans could ultimately get (or already have) COVID-19
-- 1.65 million would feel sick to some extent (but some - even many - won't realize it's COVID-19 because of vague, mild symptoms)
-- Would predict about 66,000 US deaths if we maintain the current case fatality rate we've observed here.
It's hard to know what it would all look like if nothing had been done but it does make you wonder: Does this particular disease have a high enough infection rate and high enough fatality rate to justify the extreme measures that have been imposed?
Don't know the answer but these numbers are certainly not scarier than flu (yet we don't shut down anything for "routine" flu...we just accept a certain mortality rate, as we do for many other things).
Lots of questions about cost-benefit on the public health response on this one. Bet this will be debated in years to come.
Most interesting results:
1) In Iceland, which has done some of the most extensive testing and tracking anywhere, the overall population infection rate is about 1% but 50% of those who tested positive for COVID-19 never developed ANY symptoms.
2) The actual infection fatality rate for this disease is still unknown but depends a lot on the overall age and health of the country's population: Germany is showing 2.4%; South Korea is 2.1%; US is at the moment at 4%. Iceland is only at 0.50% but median age of the population in Iceland is a lot lower (only 36.5) and healthier than most industrialized nations.
Latest projections on the true, worldwide case fatality rate of COVID-19: CDC says 0.8%. Imperial College London model says 0.9%.
If this all turns out to be applicable to the US, it would suggest:
-- 3.3 million Americans could ultimately get (or already have) COVID-19
-- 1.65 million would feel sick to some extent (but some - even many - won't realize it's COVID-19 because of vague, mild symptoms)
-- Would predict about 66,000 US deaths if we maintain the current case fatality rate we've observed here.
It's hard to know what it would all look like if nothing had been done but it does make you wonder: Does this particular disease have a high enough infection rate and high enough fatality rate to justify the extreme measures that have been imposed?
Don't know the answer but these numbers are certainly not scarier than flu (yet we don't shut down anything for "routine" flu...we just accept a certain mortality rate, as we do for many other things).
Lots of questions about cost-benefit on the public health response on this one. Bet this will be debated in years to come.
This post was edited on 4/18/20 at 9:52 pm
Posted on 4/18/20 at 10:12 pm to molardog1
Good article. Thanks for sharing it.
I agree with the premise of the article.
There are definitely negative and even deadly repercussions associated with the course we have taken which has devastated our economy. I don't fault the decision makers but I do blame China and the political pundits. Hopefully we have learned a valuable lesson that overreaction can be equally costly both in terms of healthcare and our economy.
My perspective: the death rate seemed scary mainly because 80% of the people affected were elderly patients and/or people with preexisting conditions. Nursing homes were hit particularly hard. Conversely, 80% of the Swine Flu (H1V1) patients were people under the age of 60. 1800 children died from H1V1; very few children and young healthy people in general have died from Covid-19.
I agree with the premise of the article.
There are definitely negative and even deadly repercussions associated with the course we have taken which has devastated our economy. I don't fault the decision makers but I do blame China and the political pundits. Hopefully we have learned a valuable lesson that overreaction can be equally costly both in terms of healthcare and our economy.
My perspective: the death rate seemed scary mainly because 80% of the people affected were elderly patients and/or people with preexisting conditions. Nursing homes were hit particularly hard. Conversely, 80% of the Swine Flu (H1V1) patients were people under the age of 60. 1800 children died from H1V1; very few children and young healthy people in general have died from Covid-19.
This post was edited on 4/18/20 at 10:21 pm
Posted on 4/18/20 at 10:13 pm to Lucius Clay
Thank for this very informative and objective perspective.
Posted on 4/18/20 at 10:58 pm to Whiznot
Get better dude!
Posted on 4/18/20 at 11:39 pm to Lucius Clay
Posted on 4/19/20 at 6:19 am to Dawgsontop34
quote:
That’s fair. Obviously the majority of the media portrays Trump to be an idiot with everything he does, which is not true. He’s a very smart person. I may disagree with things he does, but I don’t think the left helps themselves by categorizing every action as a bad one. It makes it very hard to vote for that type of party.
I should also say, that I am not saying that he does not lie. In fact, he may...or may not lie more than other Presidents.
I don't think there is any doubt that he tends to exaggerate and overstate, though.
In my opinion they thing that gets a lot of people upset with him, and drives the left crazy, is he has a confrontational personality. He does not dampen his rhetoric to be more diplomatic.
quote:
but I don’t think the left helps themselves by categorizing every action as a bad one. It makes it very hard to vote for that type of party.
This is exactly right. When you come out against everything someone says or does and claims stuff that are proven untrue time after time it tends to move people to the other side.
The lefts claims of Russian collusion and the Impeachment probably hurt the left more than anything they have ever done. And now they are doubling down with Corona Virus.
It's like they are holding a baseball bat and hitting themselves over the head with it time after time. They feel the pain, but they can't quite process where the pain is coming from, so they continue hitting themselves and wonder why they have a bad headache.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 6:24 am to djsdawg
quote:
People don’t have time to watch his tv show and try to interpret spin his narcissistic and uneducated BS like you constantly do. Context doesn’t remove his irresponsibility and the damage done from it.
There you go again. I have never watched his briefings. It amazes me how you assume so much stuff, and then find what you are assuming is 100% wrong. But, you go right back and do it again. Kind of like the baseball bat analogy I used.
Every time I show where you are wrong you come back for more, while wondering where the pain is coming from.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 6:32 am to Lucius Clay
quote:
Don't know the answer but these numbers are certainly not scarier than flu (yet we don't shut down anything for "routine" flu...we just accept a certain mortality rate, as we do for many other things).
I read an article that was saying one reason we reacted this way is because we had never seen Corona. The unknown drove us to possibly overreact, because we didn't know how severe it might be. We don't overreact to the common flu because we have seen it, and know how to treat it and mostly recover from it.
That said, I tend to err on the side of caution. When we don't know how devastating it can be, take measures to mitigate the damage. I am thinking we may have gone a bit overboard with Corona, however if we had done nothing how bad could it have gotten? In reality, in spit of all the models and expert opinions out there...there really is no sure way of knowing. Early reports certainly painted a bleak picture.
Interesting thoughts, Lucius. Thanks for sharing.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 6:41 am to DawgsLife
Posted on 4/19/20 at 11:47 am to DawgsLife
quote:
How about a link when you are quoting? I mean, you are already at the site...give us a link so we can =read the entire article and see the date etc. It's nice to get context
The context is trump claims the exact opposite idea of the other 2 much more highly qualified people in the same exact meeting.
You can try to spin that is not dangerously misleading or negligent if you want to, but no reasonable person would agree with such nonsense. The dude needs to learn how to speak like a competent and knowledgeable person or quiet down.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 11:57 am to Whiznot
quote:glad to hear this
I think I'm OK.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 12:07 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
There you go again. I have never watched his briefings. It amazes me how you assume so much stuff, and then find what you are assuming is 100% wrong. But, you go right back and do it again. Kind of like the baseball bat analogy I used.
Every time I show where you are wrong you come back for more, while wondering where the pain is coming fro
You claim to have showed me where I was wrong, yet you never addressed the point being made.
So you don’t watch his tv show, but you still spend lots of time finding ways to spin his wreckless comments into “but not lies because of unclear qualifiers!”
The whole point is you shouldn’t have to do that, and most people don’t have the time to do so.
Since that is true, it very important for the leader to use clear, concise, accurate and certainly not contradictory words. Since he can’t do that, He should have taken the advise others have given him, which is talk less, but he has to be the star of the show. It’s always all about him, even if it hurts him or many others.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 1:03 pm to djsdawg
Posted 4-18 in OT-Lounge by rds dc.
- South Korea had a nCFR below 0.5% at one point but they are now up to 2.2%
- Diamond Princess nCFR is now 1.8%
- South Korea had a nCFR below 0.5% at one point but they are now up to 2.2%
- Diamond Princess nCFR is now 1.8%
Posted on 4/19/20 at 1:18 pm to djsdawg
quote:
The context is trump claims the exact opposite idea of the other 2 much more highly qualified people in the same exact meeting.
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize we were supposed to take your OPINION as fact and never question it. However, after finding a quote you gave I have already shown where you conveniently edited the quote and left out pertinent information in the article.
I mean, you are the one that said Trump said, "this will go away in two days." when he said no such thing.
Your credibility goes to nil when you misrepresent facts, and edit articles and words to suit your own agenda.
quote:
You can try to spin that is not dangerously misleading or negligent if you want to, but no reasonable person would agree with such nonsense. The dude needs to learn how to speak like a competent and knowledgeable person or quiet down.
And again you give no link, so we are to take your word for something unsubstantiated?
Nobody is taking you seriously anymore.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 1:22 pm to djsdawg
quote:
You claim to have showed me where I was wrong, yet you never addressed the point being made.
I don't address points that are made up and lied about. Provide some links to show where what you are saying is not edited, and i will address your points. But I am not going to address points in which claims are manufactured and made up out of thin air.
quote:If I said "It might rain tomorrow." or "Some people feel like it will rain tomorrow." and it doesn't rain, that doesn't mean I lied. But you can't wrap your head around that, can you?
So you don’t watch his tv show, but you still spend lots of time finding ways to spin his wreckless comments into “but not lies because of unclear qualifiers!”
You truly are suffering from TDS.
When you have to twist and manufacture points you have lost the argument.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 1:52 pm to DawgsLife
COVID-19 outbreak may have started in September, say British scientists
Maybe it didn't start in Wuhan according to Brit boffins.
Maybe it didn't start in Wuhan according to Brit boffins.
This post was edited on 4/19/20 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 4/19/20 at 1:57 pm to Whiznot
Isn't that crazy? Some saying there is no way anybody got it as early as November/December and some saying it might have started in September. If it did start in September (Even if in England) it could have easily been brought over here and spread earlier than anybody suspected.
The thing that makes it so hard to judge is no telling how many people were infected and asymptomatic. I'm not convinced we will ever know the entire story. Too many variables.
The thing that makes it so hard to judge is no telling how many people were infected and asymptomatic. I'm not convinced we will ever know the entire story. Too many variables.
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