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re: How Bad?

Posted on 11/7/20 at 8:06 pm to
Posted by TheJimBrown7
Member since Mar 2017
663 posts
Posted on 11/7/20 at 8:06 pm to
Everything you said is pure conjecture. How do you know Fields wasn’t ready? How do we know he wasn’t better than Fromm. Based off practice? You mean the same practice analysis that had Mathis ahead of Bennett? Tool set is great, too bad the quarterback position isn’t just tool sets or Ryan Mallett would’ve beaten out Tom Brady in New England. Mathis having a bigger arm and being faster means absolute dick. A good coach should be able to determine that playing QB has multiple factors involved.

I hope Kirby corrects this. I know he’s a DGD. I know he bleeds red and black. His glaring issue is QB evaluation. And saying Choosing Fromm was the correct choice is a joke. Dabo went with Trevor Lawrence over an experienced Senior QB and they won a national title. It’s a part of coaching to be able to evaluate and know what you have in your QBs.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
41675 posts
Posted on 11/7/20 at 8:25 pm to
quote:

Everything you said is pure conjecture.
Some of it, but not everything. It's also educated based on history, strategy, and some old-fashioned common sense.

quote:

How do you know Fields wasn’t ready?
He couldn't beat Fromm for the starting job and he clearly wasn't given the entire playbook to use during his stints on the field. He did OK but didn't wow anyone except with his ability to run the football, which was impressive but not really where we were with our offense.

quote:

How do we know he wasn’t better than Fromm.
We have to define the word "better" here. He was clearly "better" in terms of natural talent, but that's not the criteria coaches use to name their starter. He was unproven, which was a fact at the time. Fromm also had proved his capabilities as a true freshman with less natural talent.

quote:

Based off practice?
Practice is one thing, yes. There are a lot of things a QB has to do. It's not just throwing the ball and handing it off. Fromm was able to read defenses very well as a freshman, which is something most freshmen simply can't do. It was noted often. Whether Fields could do that as a freshman was unknown but clearly Fromm had a veteran status in that department and others so Fields was behind the 8-ball by default in just about everything except his natural talent.

quote:

You mean the same practice analysis that had Mathis ahead of Bennett?
It's more than that. There are limited snaps and each QB only got certain numbers of reps with the 1's, which provided a better picture than those who were throwing with 2's, 3's, or the scout team, for instance. The coaches knew what they had to some degree with Bennett but he was also untested under the lights in meaningful game time. Mathis had better measurables and likely had more time with the 1's which gave him a step on Bennett. Bennett simply rose to the occasion when it mattered against Arkansas and proved he could lead the team in the huddle. That wasn't necessarily an evaluation issue as much as lacking foresight into performance during game time. All coaches struggle with that because it's tough to simulate the real thing without throwing them into the fire, which is a risky proposition.

quote:

Tool set is great, too bad the quarterback position isn’t just tool sets or Ryan Mallett would’ve beaten out Tom Brady in New England. Mathis having a bigger arm and being faster means absolute dick. A good coach should be able to determine that playing QB has multiple factors involved.
This was my point with Fields and Fromm. There was more to it than raw talent and measurables alone.

And like I just said, Bennett was able to rise to the occasion while Mathis didn't in their first games, and that is something coaches can't easily simulate.

quote:

I hope Kirby corrects this. I know he’s a DGD. I know he bleeds red and black. His glaring issue is QB evaluation. And saying Choosing Fromm was the correct choice is a joke. Dabo went with Trevor Lawrence over an experienced Senior QB and they won a national title. It’s a part of coaching to be able to evaluate and know what you have in your QBs.
Different contexts and apples-to-oranges. Fromm gave CKS no reason to bench him for Fields except for arguably against LSU (and afterwards Fromm played his best football of his career), yet Fields got quite a bit of playing time as #2, which is something that most backups don't get outside of injuries or mop-up duty.

Seriously, it's like this fan base struggles with critical thinking when it comes to football.
Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
44840 posts
Posted on 11/7/20 at 8:35 pm to
quote:

Different contexts and apples-to-oranges. Fromm gave CKS no reason to bench him for Fields except for arguably against LSU (and afterwards Fromm played his best football of his career), yet Fields got quite a bit of playing time as #2, which is something that most backups don't get outside of injuries or mop-up duty.



Kelly Bryant didn't play poorly enough to get benched either. Clemson was undefeated when Dabo pulled the trigger. He just saw that he had a clearly more talented QB on the bench.

The difference is that Kirby wanted to do whatever it took to keep them both on the roster while Dabo didn't really care if Bryant left because he knew he needed to keep Lawrence no matter what. Kirby was scared to find himself in the situation that Clemson was in when Bryant transferred and Lawrence got hurt and they had to play Chase Brice against Syracuse.

TL;DR - Kirby didn't have the same foresight Dabo did, and it's the difference between being decent and winning a national title.
This post was edited on 11/7/20 at 8:38 pm
Posted by dawgRUSH
New York, NY
Member since Nov 2011
951 posts
Posted on 11/7/20 at 9:04 pm to
quote:

Kelly Bryant didn't play poorly enough to get benched either. Clemson was undefeated when Dabo pulled the trigger. He just saw that he had a clearly more talented QB on the bench.


This isn’t true. Lawrence was outperforming Bryant through the first 4 games. Also, the reason why Dabo went with Lawrence after 4 games was to preserve Bryant’s redshirt which allowed him to transfer out.
Posted by Dawg4Life47
Beach
Member since Sep 2013
8433 posts
Posted on 11/7/20 at 9:05 pm to
quote:

just saw that he had a clearly more talented QB on the bench.

This is 100% true
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
41675 posts
Posted on 11/7/20 at 9:06 pm to
quote:

Kelly Bryant didn't play poorly enough to get benched either. Clemson was undefeated when Dabo pulled the trigger. He just saw that he had a clearly more talented QB on the bench.

The difference is that Kirby wanted to do whatever it took to keep them both on the roster while Dabo didn't really care if Bryant left. Kirby was scared to find himself in the situation that Clemson was in when Bryant transferred and Lawrence got hurt and they had to play Chase Brice against Syracuse.
Dabo is an offensive guy. Kirby is a defensive guy. Their approaches to the offense are different, but again, the contexts are different. Bryant was risking losing his last year of eligibility if he wasn't replaced right away and Dabo even commented about not wanting to "trap" Bryant at Clemson with Lawrence on the rise. They saw something with Lawrence in pre-season and in the games early on where he traded possessions with Bryant that proved he could hold his own and then the game against GT sealed the deal. Bryant struggled, Lawrence took over and Clemson won. It was obvious at that point that Lawrence had won.

We simply didn't have the same situation at UGA. The risk vs. reward wasn't there. And while Fields looked good running with the ball, he simply didn't show some sort of obvious dominance on the field throwing the ball at the time. He got a lot of snaps during the season but Fromm didn't do enough to lose the job.
Posted by dawgRUSH
New York, NY
Member since Nov 2011
951 posts
Posted on 11/7/20 at 9:10 pm to
quote:

just saw that he had a clearly more talented QB on the bench.

This is 100% true


Definitely not disagreeing with that lol.
Posted by FaCubeItches
Soviet Monica, People's Republic CA
Member since Sep 2012
5875 posts
Posted on 11/7/20 at 11:25 pm to
quote:

We have more resources and talent than anyone in the SEC


Given the run that Bama has been on since 2008; no, we don't have "more talent" than they do. We've had broadly comparable talent a couple of times, but they are far and away the class of the conference.
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