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re: Haselwood's comments about our staff
Posted on 1/18/19 at 2:17 pm to djsdawg
Posted on 1/18/19 at 2:17 pm to djsdawg
quote:I don't think that's true (the reasoning), but I'll grant it for the sake of discussion. If that's really the reason, then it's overly simplistic and ignorant and ignores the vast complexity of the game. I hope that's not what you're doing because it means that I'm having a discussion with someone with the equivalent football comprehension of my 6 year old who only talks about the color of the jerseys.
........because he is the QB. Its that simple.
1
Posted on 1/18/19 at 2:20 pm to Whiznot
quote:While that's true, you can't rest on that line of reasoning alone for attributing success and failure. You have to look into the root cause and figure out what could have been done differently to prevent it. Simply pointing fingers to the QB for our lack of success is short-sighted. You have to point to specifics and justify your claim beyond simple optics.
It's just that the quarterback, of all the players, has the most control of the outcome relative to other positions.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 2:22 pm to djsdawg
quote:Be specific. Simply saying he could do more doesn't help anything. You might as well be saying "he should be better". What does that mean? What is "better"? What, exactly, is "more"? How is that measured? You have to point to specific failure points and identify the causes in order to fix the problem.
True, but that wasnt enough. He needed to make more passes, or make some plays with his legs
Posted on 1/18/19 at 2:38 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
FooManChoo
You’re on a DawgsLife-esque response rate right now. I’m impressed.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 7:27 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
1. You didn't qualify your previous response. You simply said he didn't get, as I put it, "boatloads" of experience, and then added that it was because he was the backup and not the starter.
I shouldnt have to qualify it by pointing out the obvious, but I was not talking about random backup snaps when speaking about experience, but rather extensive starter snaps. Fromm and Eason both benefited from those snaps as true freshmen. They were allowed to get in the flow of the game, not pressing due to limited snaps, playing with starters, etc.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 7:52 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Semantics. When you criticize the QB for not doing enough to win a game, you are saying he's culpable for the loss and deserving of criticism for that loss. The result is the same.
He played a role in the collapse of both games, but that doesnt mean he is the sole reason or main reason we lost both games.
quote:
Not necessarily. Sometimes an outstanding receiver takes over. Sometimes its a running back. Sometimes it's actually the defense that steps up and wins a game. Other times it's an outstanding special teams play that makes the difference. And yes, sometimes it's the quarterback play. You can't make a blanket statement that when a game is close, it's incumbent on the QB to be that difference maker. Sometimes a QB is doing all he can do but isn't getting help elsewhere.
Since the Qb has the ball more than anyone else, he has more opportunities to make plays than anyone else. Qbs arent going to have perfect protection and wide open WR's all the time. They need to be able to make something out of nothing. Each week Qbs make plays when pressure is applied and no one is open. Thats exactly what we needed from Fromm later in the Bama games and we didnt get them.
quote:
Maybe. Maybe not. If he was quicker on his feet, he might have been tempted to take off and run more, which could have resulted in injury. You never know what can happen, which is why playing the what-if game is rather pointless.
Injuries are always possible, but not probable. Just one Qb first down run, or a scramble and pass first down, as compared to a sack and punt, has potential to be the difference in a close game. That one extended drive can get you those points and/or clock to put the game out of reach or clinch it.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 7:56 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
If that's really the reason, then it's overly simplistic
quote:
I'm having a discussion with someone with the equivalent football comprehension of my 6 year old who only talks about the color of the jerseys.
Says the guy making the overly simplistic accusation that folks are only focusing on Fromm's play because they are Fields lovers? Keep the childish flames to yourself. Its a bad look.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 8:20 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Be specific.
Anything that gains points or a first down to extend a drive on any down or distance. Can be a 3 yard run, a 10 yard run, a scramble and pass, a pass to the open guy instead of the covered guy, or simply a more accurate pass.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 9:03 pm to FooManChoo
She will never stop. She covers for her lack of knowledge with repeated word vomiting. Somehow, in her crazy mind, she thinks she knows more about football than someone who played at a high level and coached. It’s best to just let her words show her lack of knowledge. Eventually you have to stop engaging, because she won’t.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 9:19 pm to Peter Buck
Peter, lets get back to that time yesterday when you failed miserably with your reply to my post. It was obvious you had no clue what I was talking about.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 9:27 pm to djsdawg
Feel free to dissect it and show the world how much you know.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 9:37 pm to Peter Buck
The point I made was simple:
If you disagree with that claim, then its clear your playing experience is worthless in understanding the game. Evidence supporting my point is all over the game.
quote:
Qb legs can make huge plays for a team
If you disagree with that claim, then its clear your playing experience is worthless in understanding the game. Evidence supporting my point is all over the game.
This post was edited on 1/18/19 at 9:45 pm
Posted on 1/20/19 at 5:27 pm to djsdawg
Peter and foo watch non dual threat Goff win that game for the rams making key plays with his legs, and with pressure in his face?
Posted on 1/24/19 at 9:56 am to djsdawg
quote:When you say he didn't get experience, you have to qualify it or else the statement is false, because he did get experience. A lot of it, in fact. A lot more than a typical backup QB does.
I shouldnt have to qualify it by pointing out the obvious
quote:That's the qualification I was looking for. Thank you.
but I was not talking about random backup snaps when speaking about experience, but rather extensive starter snaps.
I agree that he didn't get extensive starter snaps, though he got a lot more than he probably should have (my opinion).
quote:I agree, but both had different circumstances than Fields did. If Lambert was a high-caliber QB, Eason probably wouldn't have been starting as soon as he did. Likewise for Fromm, if Eason didn't get injured. Tom Brady needed Drew Bledsoe to get injured to show what he could do because he wasn't getting the starting job otherwise. Opportunities don't always show up quickly or often, which is why you need to take advantage of them when they come.
Fromm and Eason both benefited from those snaps as true freshmen. They were allowed to get in the flow of the game, not pressing due to limited snaps, playing with starters, etc.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 10:28 am to djsdawg
quote:That's a far cry from the statements about needing someone with quick feet to beat Bama. The focus was on Fromm, even though you now say he wasn't the sole or main reason we lost both games. It goes back to what I and others have said: football is a team sport. We lost as a team and Fromm having faster legs doesn't necessarily mean we win.
He played a role in the collapse of both games, but that doesnt mean he is the sole reason or main reason we lost both games.
quote:Sure. Statistically that is correct, however simply touching the ball more is meaningless if the play doesn't allow for anything to be done with it. WRs that don't catch the ball and OL that don't block well will get a QB massacred, no matter what. If a QB can't rely on his team to execute, they are likely going to lose the game, no matter how good or athletic the QB is. It's still a team sport.
Since the Qb has the ball more than anyone else, he has more opportunities to make plays than anyone else.
quote:Not necessarily. They need to be smart, most of all. That means getting rid of the ball and throwing it away instead of taking a sack, for instance.
Qbs arent going to have perfect protection and wide open WR's all the time. They need to be able to make something out of nothing.
You keep defaulting to a QB needing to always being able to get positive yards, but that's not realistic. Some of the best QBs to play the game were great at not getting negative yards rather than always getting positive yards.
quote:Each week, QBs protect the ball and don't get negative yards or at least don't turn the ball over when the pressure is applied. That's usually more important than a QB always trying to make big plays with their legs.
Each week Qbs make plays when pressure is applied and no one is open.
quote:I asked previously but if you want to point to specific plays where Fromm "making plays" (do you mean running around?) was possible and would have changed the outcome of the game, then please do. All I've seen so far is the SECCG where he should have lowered his shoulder and risked injury to pick up another two yards on a 2nd-down play.
Thats exactly what we needed from Fromm later in the Bama games and we didnt get them.
It's easy to say a player should "make plays" and just be better, but you need to be specific.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 10:59 am to djsdawg
quote:Focusing on Fromm's play is fine. I do it too. Focusing on the negatives only while ignoring the positives and insisting he should stand on the sidelines while an inexperienced and unproven backup QB should be given more of his (Fromm's) earned snaps in the hopes that it will help the backup for the next season is borderline lunacy. Who does that? Seriously? Someone who is either ignorant or irrational, as I see it.
Says the guy making the overly simplistic accusation that folks are only focusing on Fromm's play because they are Fields lovers?
Considering I and many others have sufficiently contradicted any rational reason for the anti-Fromm arguments, all that is left is irrationality. You're either a Fromm "hater" because you're ignorant, or because you're biased in favor of Fields against the rational arguments to the contrary. If you'd like to argue that, feel free.
quote:Interpret my statement however you want but I did add that the reason why I thought it was simplistic was because it ignored the complexity of the game, much like a child does when they cheer for a team solely because of their jersey colors. If you don't like that particular comparison, you can let me know a better one, but I was trying to stress the overly simplistic nature of the statement.
Keep the childish flames to yourself. Its a bad look.
Also, sometimes such patently absurd beliefs or statements require similar responses. Answering a fool according to their folly and all that.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 11:03 am to djsdawg
quote:I apologize if I wasn't clear. What I meant was that I would like you to offer specifics as to what Fromm could have done better in the actual games by pointing to specific plays.
Anything that gains points or a first down to extend a drive on any down or distance. Can be a 3 yard run, a 10 yard run, a scramble and pass, a pass to the open guy instead of the covered guy, or simply a more accurate pass.
It's easy to criticize generally, but that's unhelpful. I have dissected specific plays and drives several times in defense of my arguments and so far you seem to only want to speak in platitudes and generalities.
So like I said before, be specific.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 11:17 am to Peter Buck
quote:While I agree with you, I get too much entertainment out of the exercise, though I know it's an exercise in futility. I also use it as an opportunity to improve my own understanding of things, so it's helpful to me in that regard.
She will never stop. She covers for her lack of knowledge with repeated word vomiting. Somehow, in her crazy mind, she thinks she knows more about football than someone who played at a high level and coached. It’s best to just let her words show her lack of knowledge. Eventually you have to stop engaging, because she won’t.
That being said, some people just won't listen to reason.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 11:18 am to djsdawg
quote:I missed it, sorry. I did, however, watch the very mobile and lightning-fast Tom Brady do his thing again.
Peter and foo watch non dual threat Goff win that game for the rams making key plays with his legs, and with pressure in his face?
Posted on 1/24/19 at 12:24 pm to FooManChoo
Jake Fromm doesn't need to wake up tomorrow as Mike Vick to beat Bama. He played damn well for almost the entire game when we played them before.
Trevor Lawrence isn't more mobile than Jake, and he didn't play much better than Jake (if at all) in their NC. He did, however, benefit from better play-calling in the second half and a staff that continued to put him in the right positions to win.
If Jake makes the kind of predictable Junior progression that we can expect he'll be plenty good enough to win a chip as long as the staff can adjust the scheme to combat the adjustments from the Alabama staff.
I do have two concerns, though.
1. Consistency. I don't want to see another LSU game. He should play at a high level every game.
2. Leadership. He should take the reigns as a leader and help combat letdowns from his offense.
Trevor Lawrence isn't more mobile than Jake, and he didn't play much better than Jake (if at all) in their NC. He did, however, benefit from better play-calling in the second half and a staff that continued to put him in the right positions to win.
If Jake makes the kind of predictable Junior progression that we can expect he'll be plenty good enough to win a chip as long as the staff can adjust the scheme to combat the adjustments from the Alabama staff.
I do have two concerns, though.
1. Consistency. I don't want to see another LSU game. He should play at a high level every game.
2. Leadership. He should take the reigns as a leader and help combat letdowns from his offense.
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