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re: Does Murray deserve to have #11 retired?
Posted on 12/18/13 at 10:53 pm to Pharm_Dawg
Posted on 12/18/13 at 10:53 pm to Pharm_Dawg
Next you're gonna want a statue for the guy
1
Posted on 12/18/13 at 10:57 pm to Damn Good Dawg
quote:
Next you're gonna want a statue for the guy
And for the team to be renamed the Fighting Aaron Murrays, naturally. I just figured a guy who rewrote record books at a fairly important position in a really good conference would get some sort of honor.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 11:10 pm to Pharm_Dawg
Is adoration not enough? Cause I mean if we retire 11 we may as well retire 14, 47, 3 and a whole bevy of numbers
IMO if you HAVE to retire a number a national title needs to be involved
IMO if you HAVE to retire a number a national title needs to be involved
Posted on 12/18/13 at 11:36 pm to Damn Good Dawg
Meh, IMO a Heisman >>> national title as far as jersey retirement is concerned. Titles are nice but isn't the whole point of retiring the jersey to recognize the individual?
However, possessing both renders the individual legendary and their number to be retired without any debate.
However, possessing both renders the individual legendary and their number to be retired without any debate.
This post was edited on 12/18/13 at 11:37 pm
Posted on 12/18/13 at 11:38 pm to Cherokee Chinstrap
I can agree with that and either way Murray doesn't meet the criteria.
He's a DGD and he'll hold a place in many fans hearts for years to come but he doesn't need his jersey retired or we are gonna have to retire several numbers and soon we're gonna run out of numbers and then we'll be up shite creek
Not to say you're saying that, just my opinion on the matter
He's a DGD and he'll hold a place in many fans hearts for years to come but he doesn't need his jersey retired or we are gonna have to retire several numbers and soon we're gonna run out of numbers and then we'll be up shite creek
Not to say you're saying that, just my opinion on the matter
This post was edited on 12/18/13 at 11:39 pm
Posted on 12/18/13 at 11:44 pm to Damn Good Dawg
Exactly!
Give the dude a plaque or name something football related after him. You don't need a number to be retired in order to be remembered as a DGD.
Give the dude a plaque or name something football related after him. You don't need a number to be retired in order to be remembered as a DGD.
This post was edited on 12/18/13 at 11:46 pm
Posted on 12/19/13 at 12:00 am to Damn Good Dawg
How many times are we going to have a QB come through who starts 4 years, beats our rivals, and breaks every major SEC passing record along the way? If you're going to knock the guy for anything, his performance against top 25 opponents is a better argument than his lack of winning an SECCG/MNC.
Either way, I agree with the previous post that if Pollack's number didn't get retired, AM has no shot at that honor.
Either way, I agree with the previous post that if Pollack's number didn't get retired, AM has no shot at that honor.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 12:28 am to Damn Good Dawg
quote:
IMO if you HAVE to retire a number a national title needs to be involved
Not saying they should retire #11 but, if this is the criteria, then they should un-retire 62 and 40. Trippi didnt win a natty and Theron Sapp quite literally had his number retired on the strength of a single moment in his career...he broke the drought...big frickin deal.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 4:36 am to Pharm_Dawg
He has been a damn great dog.
Like all the statements above it has to be some real special shite to retire a number. If we just retired all the DGD out we would have to start using decimals and chit.... Here comes number 1.9 Hutson Mason
BTW not a shite question at all Pharm
Like all the statements above it has to be some real special shite to retire a number. If we just retired all the DGD out we would have to start using decimals and chit.... Here comes number 1.9 Hutson Mason
BTW not a shite question at all Pharm
Posted on 12/19/13 at 9:15 am to Pharm_Dawg
quote:
Pharm_Dawg
Oh, I have plenty of things to knock him for like his penchant for turnovers and the deer in the headlights look that became his thing during big games for his first 3 years of his career. I was sticking to bigger picture.
And no, his performance against the top 25 is not a better argument than titles because had Georgia won more of those match ups then maybe he'd have some titles. They weren't all his fault but the fact is that David Greene deserves his number retired before Murray and Greene probably isn't even close to getting his 14 retired.
There's literally no argument that will convince me that Murray needs his jersey retired. As cherokee said, give him a plaque or name an effort award after him or something
quote:
DawgHolliday
I don't disagree but that's in the past and I figure it's harder to unretire a number than it is to retire one.
I don't pretend to know why they did it then but I do know that now Murray doesn't need or deserve his jersey retired.
After cherokee's post it's my opinion that you should at minimum win a heisman as well as probably a national title or at least an SEC title.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 9:16 am to Pharm_Dawg
quote:
The obvious one: he broke every meaningful SEC passing record
Greene broke a lot of records too. So did terrence edwards. Those guys at least won an SEC title though, Murray didn't.
quote:
Not football related, but he did a ton off the field. SEC Scholar Athlete, volunteered time to the Extra Special People program
So? The stinchcombs did too, along with literally hundreds of other players in UGA history
quote:
Most importantly, the guy represents exactly what I envision when I hear Damn Good Dawg.
So? Numbers don't get retired for character.
Look I love Murray, he has grown on me every year he's been here. He's probably one of my favorite dawgs we've had in a while. But retiring his number? That's just crazy talk.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 9:50 am to WG_Dawg
I think AM is a DGD and I would be OK with retiring his number and I'd be OK if we didn't retire his number, so I don't really care either way. But, I will just say that a MNC or even a SEC title are not necessarily representative of the player as much as the team the player played on during his career.
AM has shown a lot of guts this year trying to pull out wins pretty much singlehandedly because he was handicapped with a poor defense or injuries to key support positions. Last year in the SECCG, he did what he needed to do to win that game, but due to bad defense and a tipped pass and unlucky catch, we lost 5 yards short. If his team performs just a little better last year, he's got a SECC and potentially a MNC. Hard to pin that directly on AM.
If someone wants to say that the lack of hardware is the only thing keeping him from getting his number retired, I'll ask again: What did Theron Sapp win in order to have his number retired? You know what he's famous for? He "ended the drought" (of wins) against Georgia Tech. He didn't win a Heisman or win a MNC, yet the win against our in-state rival was what he was honored for.
I'm not saying everyone who wins against GT, Auburn, or Florida should automatically get their number retired, but one quarter of the players with their numbers retired didn't do much except get one touchdown in one game against a rival that endeared him to the Dawgnation at the time. The precedent has been set already that there is more to the honor than the hardware.
Whether or not AM really deserves to have his number retired isn't for me to say, but I think all points of view should be considered.
AM has shown a lot of guts this year trying to pull out wins pretty much singlehandedly because he was handicapped with a poor defense or injuries to key support positions. Last year in the SECCG, he did what he needed to do to win that game, but due to bad defense and a tipped pass and unlucky catch, we lost 5 yards short. If his team performs just a little better last year, he's got a SECC and potentially a MNC. Hard to pin that directly on AM.
If someone wants to say that the lack of hardware is the only thing keeping him from getting his number retired, I'll ask again: What did Theron Sapp win in order to have his number retired? You know what he's famous for? He "ended the drought" (of wins) against Georgia Tech. He didn't win a Heisman or win a MNC, yet the win against our in-state rival was what he was honored for.
I'm not saying everyone who wins against GT, Auburn, or Florida should automatically get their number retired, but one quarter of the players with their numbers retired didn't do much except get one touchdown in one game against a rival that endeared him to the Dawgnation at the time. The precedent has been set already that there is more to the honor than the hardware.
Whether or not AM really deserves to have his number retired isn't for me to say, but I think all points of view should be considered.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 9:55 am to FooManChoo
My thing is just that he (or should I say, the teams he played on) didnt' win anything of substance. For the "he broke so many records" crowd..those records can be broken. Maybe not in the next few years but they can and may one day be broken. You can't take away a national title or SEC title like you can take away someone's name atop a stat category.
Times were A LOT different back then. Jersey retiring might not have been quite as big a "thing" in teh old days, and hell we lost 8 in a row to tech which was unheard of. This was the dang 1950s. Nobody was clamoring for Verron Haynes to have his number retired for breaking the 3 game drought in 2001. If the same scenario happened today as Sapp had back then nobody would even remotely consider the possibility of retirement. But what's done is done, you can't take it back now.
Not really...there are hundreds upon hundreds of other players in UGA history that have broken droughts and haven't been considered for the honor. And 3/4 of the people have either won a heisman or a share of a national title. So you can just as easily argue that that is the precedent as well.
quote:
I'll ask again: What did Theron Sapp win in order to have his number retired?
Times were A LOT different back then. Jersey retiring might not have been quite as big a "thing" in teh old days, and hell we lost 8 in a row to tech which was unheard of. This was the dang 1950s. Nobody was clamoring for Verron Haynes to have his number retired for breaking the 3 game drought in 2001. If the same scenario happened today as Sapp had back then nobody would even remotely consider the possibility of retirement. But what's done is done, you can't take it back now.
quote:
The precedent has been set already that there is more to the honor than the hardware
Not really...there are hundreds upon hundreds of other players in UGA history that have broken droughts and haven't been considered for the honor. And 3/4 of the people have either won a heisman or a share of a national title. So you can just as easily argue that that is the precedent as well.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 10:01 am to Pharm_Dawg
No.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 10:05 am to WG_Dawg
I agree that realistically there must be a higher standard today, otherwise as someone jokingly suggested, we'd have to start using decimals.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 10:07 am to FooManChoo
quote:
one quarter of the players with their numbers retired didn't do much except get one touchdown in one game against a rival that endeared him to the Dawgnation at the time. The precedent has been set already that there is more to the honor than the hardware.
So just to be clear 75% of them did win a Heisman or a Championship
I get what you are saying regarding Sapp but if anything you are making a case for the criteria to retire a jersey to be tougher, not easier.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 10:49 am to WG_Dawg
My point was that a precedent has been set to honor players for things other than winning a championship or the national MVP award. Whether things are different now than then doesn't really matter much to me, because things can just as easily change back, as it often does. The times don't change the accomplishments of the players, only how they are perceived.
We retire jerseys, not teams, because it is an honor for an individual contribution during their careers. While it sucks for AM that he wasn't recognized for the Heisman, he has been in contention for it during periods over the past two seasons, and would inevitably get knocked out of those conversations with losses (a team issue, again) or because of a more dynamic group of QBs that are showcased due to their teams.
It also sucks that he didn't get a MNC, but that was also a team issue. Yeah, he didn't play well enough the first two seasons to get the job done in that regard, but the past two seasons could have had him playing for it all if the defense was better and we weren't hit with injuries this year. That's a team issue, though. Nothing he could do about that, even though he tried (and did) win games on his own.
Again, I'm not saying he should have his number retired. I just think there's more to a university honoring one of their own than how they were perceived nationally. The Heisnman is a national award, not a university award. The MNC is awarded for the best team, not the best player. The best player any given year often doesn't necessarily get the MNC.
We retire jerseys, not teams, because it is an honor for an individual contribution during their careers. While it sucks for AM that he wasn't recognized for the Heisman, he has been in contention for it during periods over the past two seasons, and would inevitably get knocked out of those conversations with losses (a team issue, again) or because of a more dynamic group of QBs that are showcased due to their teams.
It also sucks that he didn't get a MNC, but that was also a team issue. Yeah, he didn't play well enough the first two seasons to get the job done in that regard, but the past two seasons could have had him playing for it all if the defense was better and we weren't hit with injuries this year. That's a team issue, though. Nothing he could do about that, even though he tried (and did) win games on his own.
Again, I'm not saying he should have his number retired. I just think there's more to a university honoring one of their own than how they were perceived nationally. The Heisnman is a national award, not a university award. The MNC is awarded for the best team, not the best player. The best player any given year often doesn't necessarily get the MNC.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 11:08 am to Cherokee Chinstrap
quote:Yes, 75%, not 100%, won a Heisman or a Championship.
So just to be clear 75% of them did win a Heisman or a Championship
I get what you are saying regarding Sapp but if anything you are making a case for the criteria to retire a jersey to be tougher, not easier.
My case doesn't depend on those that did, but those that didn't, so I don't think I'm making the case harder at all. Many here are saying that a Heisman and/or a MNC is absolutely necessary as a requirement for a jersey retirement, and I'm saying that the history of our program leaves the door open to not having won those things in order to receive the honor.
It's a given that someone who has the hardware should would be up for such a consideration, but I'm saying that the hardware doesn't always speak to the individual who is being honored. The MNC is a team effort. Even if the MVP of the team carries a lot of the weight, they can't do it alone. And the Heisman is more political than anything else these days.
Maybe AM doesn't deserve his number retired. I really don't care either way. I'm just trying to make arguments for consideration to help the discussion.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 7:40 pm to FooManChoo
Not a chance. Murray was very good and he could have been exceptional with good coaching but he is not a champion.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 7:46 pm to Whiznot
Exactly what coaching would have taken him from good to exceptional?
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