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re: tOfficial JFF Hancock-gate Speculation Thread
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:04 pm to jrodan
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:04 pm to jrodan
curious what the board response would be if the Lightfoot crew brokered a deal with the NCAA - Manziel comes clean with explicit details and receives a 2-game suspension. Would you consider this a positive or negative outcome? Would you welcome Manziel back?
Btw NCAA precedence actually suggests it's about a normal punishment as such things are generally 2 to 4 games*. It's also in the NCAA's interest to only give out a 2-game ban. Manziel is punished but NCAA football really isn't as no one really cares about the first 2 games. They also save the expense of investigation and avoid the risk of looking ridiculous again if they can't prove anything. And since it's retardedly results oriented and reeks of favoritism, it should be right in the NCAA's wheelhouse.
* They have cracked down much harder when players and programs that lie however
Btw NCAA precedence actually suggests it's about a normal punishment as such things are generally 2 to 4 games*. It's also in the NCAA's interest to only give out a 2-game ban. Manziel is punished but NCAA football really isn't as no one really cares about the first 2 games. They also save the expense of investigation and avoid the risk of looking ridiculous again if they can't prove anything. And since it's retardedly results oriented and reeks of favoritism, it should be right in the NCAA's wheelhouse.
* They have cracked down much harder when players and programs that lie however
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Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:24 pm to jrodan
quote:
I don't understand why ESPN would refuse to use the videos if they are that damning. Wouldn't you think they would want to air that?
Agreed.
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:26 pm to tmc94
If he comes clean with everything I would welcome back. I think that would show a huge step in maturity for him. I don't see it happening though
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:30 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
If he comes clean with everything I would welcome back. I think that would show a huge step in maturity for him. I don't see it happening though
Yup.
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:49 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
If he comes clean with everything I would welcome back. I think that would show a huge step in maturity for him. I don't see it happening though
Exactly.
Posted on 8/6/13 at 6:30 pm to Nguyening
Thanks for the recommendations man. 
Posted on 8/6/13 at 8:40 pm to jrodan
Connecticut, where ESPN is, requires 2 party consent to possess a recording or else it is a class d felony.
Posted on 8/6/13 at 9:32 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
This autograph broker recorded the conversation so he could sell it. Pretty sure we shouldn't believe anything he says.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 1:40 am to GandhiAggie
quote:
This autograph broker recorded the conversation so he could sell it
Depends on where it was recorded. If it was in a 2-party state, that's a class D felony.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 8:56 am to CGSC Lobotomy
They said he signed the autographs while he was at the Walter Camp Football Foundation event in New Haven, CT. Looks like he won't be able to sell it.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 3:37 pm to Monsters and Men
Of course we want him back. Look around. Other schools are happily granting full playing status to rapist, assaulters, and thieves. He is still our guy and our Heisman winner. I would love to have Johnny Football back. He's the greatest player in college football - maybe of all-time.
Posted on 8/8/13 at 8:20 am to GandhiAggie
Soooo what will happen today? News was rather slow yesterday, maybe NCAA realizes that despite the ESPN frenzy there really isn't any concrete evidence.
Posted on 8/8/13 at 12:44 pm to jrodan
- he's almost certainly guilty
- we will play him unless the NCAA suspends him
- the NCAA is unlikely to ever have evidence to suspend him
- if a broker does come forward on the record, it's very likely to be explosive because anyone that has evidence on Manziel will have so on numerous other players. And we'll have a Tour de France style NCAA season
I really have moved on from Manziel and it's not going to make me feel bad if evidence comes out, he's guilty, and is punished. I'll still enjoy the hell out of this football season. But I'm honestly concerned that if that happens, my favorite sport will likely be crushed.
I'm not certain that a results-oriented best option for the NCAA isn't to just quickly clear him and wrap this up, followed by writing some very detailed rules concerning autographs going forward. My bet would be this get covered in the D4 talk and they will set a max price for them and allow players to profit. As is, it's totally uncontrollable by institutions and is a huge violation of student-athlete rights (which is what O'Bannon is about). The large point of D4 is to take the big money making schools out of a purely amateur arena because otherwise suits like O'Bannon will eventually break up the whole system.
- we will play him unless the NCAA suspends him
- the NCAA is unlikely to ever have evidence to suspend him
- if a broker does come forward on the record, it's very likely to be explosive because anyone that has evidence on Manziel will have so on numerous other players. And we'll have a Tour de France style NCAA season
I really have moved on from Manziel and it's not going to make me feel bad if evidence comes out, he's guilty, and is punished. I'll still enjoy the hell out of this football season. But I'm honestly concerned that if that happens, my favorite sport will likely be crushed.
I'm not certain that a results-oriented best option for the NCAA isn't to just quickly clear him and wrap this up, followed by writing some very detailed rules concerning autographs going forward. My bet would be this get covered in the D4 talk and they will set a max price for them and allow players to profit. As is, it's totally uncontrollable by institutions and is a huge violation of student-athlete rights (which is what O'Bannon is about). The large point of D4 is to take the big money making schools out of a purely amateur arena because otherwise suits like O'Bannon will eventually break up the whole system.
Posted on 8/8/13 at 4:24 pm to tmc94
Manziels officially lawyer up. This was inevitable imo as A&M and Manziel can't share an attorney here as our interests could possibly conflict. I was wondering if he even had attorney-client privilege with A&M's attorneys given we are technically the ones investigating him as a member institution of the NCAA.
Posted on 8/8/13 at 4:44 pm to tmc94
I think NCAA takes their losses on this one. They don't want to risk the whole tower of Babylon coming down. The NCAA / football relationship isn't that strong anyway.
My (fantasy) bet: Next year selling autographs will be legal, but have to be regulated through proper channels, and price will be standardized.
My (fantasy) bet: Next year selling autographs will be legal, but have to be regulated through proper channels, and price will be standardized.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 10:35 pm to Nguyening
A couple of things have struck me as odd in this deal. One was in the first article where Johnny was complaining that he "had" to sign too many autographs but then his parents would hit him up with several hundred items to sign every time he came home (which I also don't understand since they moved to CS). Out of everything written in the first article that stood out the most to me and that was before the stuff hit the fan.
Then the second thing was that the stuff hit the fan the following week. OTL week one and breaking news the next week both by ESPN.
I've vigorously debated fellow Ags that they are dumb to be upset about the tweetering (we're old) but too much stinks about this autograph stuff and Johnny needs to follow his tweets and hit the road.
Then the second thing was that the stuff hit the fan the following week. OTL week one and breaking news the next week both by ESPN.
I've vigorously debated fellow Ags that they are dumb to be upset about the tweetering (we're old) but too much stinks about this autograph stuff and Johnny needs to follow his tweets and hit the road.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 11:16 pm to EyeAreAg
quote:
I've vigorously debated fellow Ags
Posted on 8/13/13 at 1:13 pm to tmc94
An interesting article on NCAA investigations. I'd post it in the master thread but it's rather pointless and would get lost I'm sure and the same dumb questions would come up.
Some key excerpts:
So all the ESPN sources are pretty irrelevant to the NCAA. It puts pressure on them but there's really nothing they can do with the info.
This actually jives with something I was told but didn't want to post for fear people would freak. We may well declare Manziel ineligible next week. Lay out everything we have and drop it on the NCAA's doorstep. If the NCAA doesn't feel like it's enough, they will then reinstate him. This takes all responsibility off our hands.
He would not be able to practice during this period so that enables us to give the other QBs extra reps to determine a backup. We want him practicing til our initial investigation is complete though.
Despite the outcry, the NCAA cannot and does not punish without meeting this standard. It's actually a pretty difficult standard to meet without subpoena power in a case like this and is why cases like this are generally not pursued. It makes the NCAA look exceptionally feckless
Some key excerpts:
quote:
For example, NCAA investigators cannot use information from a confidential or anonymous source to support an allegation or to prove a violation occurred. Such information can only be used as the ignition point of an investigation.
So all the ESPN sources are pretty irrelevant to the NCAA. It puts pressure on them but there's really nothing they can do with the info.
quote:
If an eligibility issue is uncovered during the course of an investigation, it is the responsibility of the institution, rather than the NCAA, to declare an athlete ineligible. The athlete remains ineligible until undergoing the student-athlete reinstatement process, which is entirely separate from the enforcement process.
A completely separate staff decides on reinstatement, and that process can take as little as 24 hours — as was the case in December, when Auburn quarterback Cam Newton was reinstated less than a day after his school ruled him ineligible, despite an ongoing investigation into his recruitment — or it can span several weeks.
This actually jives with something I was told but didn't want to post for fear people would freak. We may well declare Manziel ineligible next week. Lay out everything we have and drop it on the NCAA's doorstep. If the NCAA doesn't feel like it's enough, they will then reinstate him. This takes all responsibility off our hands.
He would not be able to practice during this period so that enables us to give the other QBs extra reps to determine a backup. We want him practicing til our initial investigation is complete though.
quote:
Josephine Potuto, who served on the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions from 2000 to 2009, said the standard of proof used in a COI hearing is “clear and convincing evidence,” much like the standard employed in civil cases tried in a court of law. This falls short of “beyond a reasonable doubt,” the standard employed in criminal cases.
Despite the outcry, the NCAA cannot and does not punish without meeting this standard. It's actually a pretty difficult standard to meet without subpoena power in a case like this and is why cases like this are generally not pursued. It makes the NCAA look exceptionally feckless
Posted on 8/13/13 at 1:42 pm to tmc94
quote:
This actually jives with something I was told but didn't want to post for fear people would freak. We may well declare Manziel ineligible next week. Lay out everything we have and drop it on the NCAA's doorstep. If the NCAA doesn't feel like it's enough, they will then reinstate him. This takes all responsibility off our hands.
That thought has actually crossed my mind. Could be the smartest move, forcing the issue instead of the ambiguous thread of NCAA sanctions hanging over the program all season like the sword of Damocles.
I think this all comes to a head one way or the other next week.
Posted on 8/13/13 at 2:07 pm to tmc94
quote:
This actually jives with something I was told but didn't want to post for fear people would freak. We may well declare Manziel ineligible next week. Lay out everything we have and drop it on the NCAA's doorstep. If the NCAA doesn't feel like it's enough, they will then reinstate him. This takes all responsibility off our hands.
Isn't this exactly what Auburn did with Cam when he was ineligible for one day during a game week ( I think vs UGA) and the next day the NCAA cleared him? Seems likely we would go through this process to wipe our hands before the season begins
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