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re: Is it time for tu vs A&M?
Posted on 12/3/13 at 10:47 am to finestfirst79
Posted on 12/3/13 at 10:47 am to finestfirst79
quote:
t.u. stands to gain as much exposure and TV money from the game as A&M does. I don't trust them, either. But they're not morons. If it gets set up I can't see them pulling the plug unless we do something crazy like win 10 years in a row.
I pretty much agree with this. People forget that 99% of the bullshite came from Dodds. He's been their AD since 1981. There's a reason they act like fricking pussies consistently and it's because they've had him run their AD so damn long. He's always been exactly like he is now, only younger I guess. He has carried petty vendettas against Arkansas, Houston, and us for years. He literally has bullied Rice since the SWC broke up telling them if they schedule LSU in Houston that he would never play them again in any sport (sound familiar?).
He orchestrated the Big 12 leaving the smaller SWC schools in his wake but acts all butthurt when someone does it to him (Arky, A&M). He even tried to do it again with the Pac. Somehow he has bullied people into believing he did something to save them when the truth is he set realignment into motion before the B1G ever said boo. It's not a coincidence that the Pac-16 deal happened literally a day after Nebraska announced. He'd been working on it for almost a year. Personally I think he pushed Nebraska's buttons to get cover to proceed. He's a snake in the grass and we can all move forward now that he's gone.
quote:
I just can't see A&M vs. LSU ever being on the same level as, say, Florida vs. Florida State or USC vs. Clemson, or even Georgia vs. Georgia Tech. Those are games the respective states get very excited about. We inarguably had the biggest game in Texas during the biggest college football weekend. I'd like to see it come back.
This I disagree with. I don't care for it to be Tday really because LSU-A&M is the biggest game in Texas. I posted the Tday weekend tv ratings above where no one natiomally watched Tech-tu (and last year no one watched TCU-tu). It lost head to head to the Egg Bowl.
A&M-LSU's rating in Houston? 10.3
tu-Tech's ratings in Houston? 1.7
and for one better:
tu-OU's rating in Houston? 7.1 (easily the highest rating of the year for the sips)
LSU draws ratings here and there is no game that weekend that will get higher ratings than A&M-LSU in Texas. Could we get better local ratings vs the sips? Sure, but in either case we inarguably have the biggest game in Texas during the biggest college football weekend.
2
Posted on 12/3/13 at 1:47 pm to tmc94
not sure if its fair to compare A&M vs LSU to Tech/TCU vs Texas. Especially since one was on FS1 which has gotten lower ratings regardless of matchups this year.
here are the A&M/Texas ratings for the last three years we played.
LINK
here are the A&M/Texas ratings for the last three years we played.
quote:
ESPN drew a 2.4 U.S. rating and 4.146 million viewers for the #25 Texas/Texas A&M on Thanksgiving night, down a tick in ratings and 15% in viewership from the same matchup on Thanksgiving last year (TAMU/TEX: 2.5, 4.886M), and down 35% and 38%, respectively, from 2009 (TEX/TAMU: 3.7, 6.691M).
LINK
This post was edited on 12/3/13 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 12/3/13 at 2:26 pm to Dr RC
I wasn't necessarily trying to do so just pointing out that A&M-LSU outdrew any non-A&M game in Houston all year. And yeah, it's impossible to be apples to apples. But you can compare to the Egg Bowl. They were directly against one another.
The two MS schools are historically the two worst tv rating draws in the SEC because they are both from a small state and neither is historically good. Yet they outdrew the Big 12 game nationally. That's awful. TCU vs tu last year on ESPN got a 1.1 btw so it did outdraw this year's Egg Bowl at least (but tbf, it had no college competition). The idea I was trying to get across is that none of those will outdraw A&M-LSU. We don't need tu that weekend to own it locally.
And ftr FS1 has not had poor ratings necessarily. They've mostly had shitty games. They only have PAC and Big 12 and both conferences ratings were horrible this year regardless of channel. Their ratio of ratings between T1/T2 are not significantly different than the SEC's. The problem is not FS1 but that none of their games draw. We could probably have a long and interesting discussion as to why because I think it's very complex (and extremely hard to fix)
ETA: just saw this on another board and found it interesting. Top 10 games for Houston this year. I'd be interested in the numbers for DFW but don't know where to find them.
1. Bama-Texas A&M - 17.3 CBS
2. Texas A&M-LSU - 10.3 CBS
3. Auburn-Texas A&M - 7.5 CBS
4. Miss State-Texas A&M - 7.5 CBS
5. LSU-Bama - 7.5 CBS
6. Texas-OU - 7.1 ABC
7. A&M-Ole Miss - 6.7 ESPN
8. Alabama-Auburn- 6.6 CBS
9. Texas-KSU - 6.1 ABC
10. Texas A&M-Missouri - 6.0 ESPN
Also, interesting to note that A&M-Ole Miss outdrew Texas-OU nationally (they were same day) but not in Houston.
The two MS schools are historically the two worst tv rating draws in the SEC because they are both from a small state and neither is historically good. Yet they outdrew the Big 12 game nationally. That's awful. TCU vs tu last year on ESPN got a 1.1 btw so it did outdraw this year's Egg Bowl at least (but tbf, it had no college competition). The idea I was trying to get across is that none of those will outdraw A&M-LSU. We don't need tu that weekend to own it locally.
And ftr FS1 has not had poor ratings necessarily. They've mostly had shitty games. They only have PAC and Big 12 and both conferences ratings were horrible this year regardless of channel. Their ratio of ratings between T1/T2 are not significantly different than the SEC's. The problem is not FS1 but that none of their games draw. We could probably have a long and interesting discussion as to why because I think it's very complex (and extremely hard to fix)
ETA: just saw this on another board and found it interesting. Top 10 games for Houston this year. I'd be interested in the numbers for DFW but don't know where to find them.
1. Bama-Texas A&M - 17.3 CBS
2. Texas A&M-LSU - 10.3 CBS
3. Auburn-Texas A&M - 7.5 CBS
4. Miss State-Texas A&M - 7.5 CBS
5. LSU-Bama - 7.5 CBS
6. Texas-OU - 7.1 ABC
7. A&M-Ole Miss - 6.7 ESPN
8. Alabama-Auburn- 6.6 CBS
9. Texas-KSU - 6.1 ABC
10. Texas A&M-Missouri - 6.0 ESPN
Also, interesting to note that A&M-Ole Miss outdrew Texas-OU nationally (they were same day) but not in Houston.
This post was edited on 12/3/13 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 12/3/13 at 2:56 pm to tmc94
long and complex?
this is the internet man!
i dont have time to properly punctuate let alone read more than two paragraphs!
this is the internet man!
i dont have time to properly punctuate let alone read more than two paragraphs!
Posted on 12/3/13 at 2:57 pm to Dr RC
Posted on 12/3/13 at 3:58 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
Game 1 - tu
Game 2 - South Carolina
Game 3 - La Tech/New Mexico/some other out of state crappy school
Game 4 - Crappy school but what if we mix in like Miami or Florida State or something
Game 5 - Arkansas
Game 6 - Alabama
Game 7 - Ole Miss
Game 8 - SMU/Rice/UTEP/other
Game 9 - Mizzou/Kentucky/Vanderbilt
Game 10 - Mississippi State
Game 11 - Georgia/Florida/Tennessee
Game 12 - LSU
That will be the shake down of our schedule every year.
Went back and looked... and I left off Auburn... I will adjust...
Game 1 - tu
Game 2 - South Carolina
Game 3 - Arkansas
Game 4 - Crappy school but what if we mix in like Miami or Florida State or something
Game 5 - Alabama
Game 6 - Ole Miss
Game 7 - Mizzou/Kentucky/Vanderbilt
Game 8 - SMU/Rice/UTEP/other
Game 9 - Auburn
Game 10 - Mississippi State
Game 11 - Georgia/Florida/Tennessee
Game 12 - LSU
Posted on 12/3/13 at 10:06 pm to TeLeFaWx
It is time. The new 4 team bowl system requires that we upgrade our OOC opponents and tu (like it or not) carries a national name-brand whether they are good or not. LSU will only be our rival if we are both good - that's how the SEC works outside the Iron and Egg bowls.
Two requirements - it must be Thanksgiving, and it must be home and home (no JerryWorld crap).
Two requirements - it must be Thanksgiving, and it must be home and home (no JerryWorld crap).
Posted on 12/3/13 at 10:45 pm to Pvt Hudson
quote:
The new 4 team bowl system requires that we upgrade our OOC opponents and tu (like it or not) carries a national name-brand whether they are good or not.
It really doesn't require that at all, especially not for an SEC team. The SEC Champ will always have a seat at the table.
Posted on 12/3/13 at 11:08 pm to TeLeFaWx
this has to be posted
UT-BYU ............. 0.8 ..... 1,290,000
UT-Ole Miss ........ 0.1 ..... 130,000 (LHN)
UT-ISU ............. 1.5 ..... 2,400,000
UT-OU .............. 3.0, .... 4,710,000
UT-TCU ... ……..0.4, .... 676,000
UT-KU .............. 0.1 ..... 130,000 (LHN)
UT-WVU ............. 1.5 ..... 2,650,000
UT-OSU ............. 1.4 ..... 2,190,000
UT-Tech ............ 0.7 ..... 1,050,000 (Same as N. Illinois-Toledo)
A&M-Rice ........... 2.7 ..... 4,200,000
A&M-'Bama .......... 8.5 ... 13,590,000
A&M-SMU ............ 0.5 ..... 809,000
A&M-Arky ........... 1.7 ..... 2,760,000
A&M-Ole Miss ....... 3.2 ..... 5,110,000
A&M-Auburn ......... 4.2 ..... 6,730,000
A&M-UTEP ........... 0.7 ..... 1,120,000
A&M-MSU ............ 2.9 ..... 4,530,000
A&M-LSU ............ 4.8 ..... 8,140,000
A&M-Mizzou ......... 3.6 ..... 5,730,000
Average share:
A&M ...... 3.28
UT ...... 1.06
Total viewers:
A&M ...... 52,719,000
UT ...... 15,181,000
yea, our game with bama damn near out drew their entire season
UT-BYU ............. 0.8 ..... 1,290,000
UT-Ole Miss ........ 0.1 ..... 130,000 (LHN)
UT-ISU ............. 1.5 ..... 2,400,000
UT-OU .............. 3.0, .... 4,710,000
UT-TCU ... ……..0.4, .... 676,000
UT-KU .............. 0.1 ..... 130,000 (LHN)
UT-WVU ............. 1.5 ..... 2,650,000
UT-OSU ............. 1.4 ..... 2,190,000
UT-Tech ............ 0.7 ..... 1,050,000 (Same as N. Illinois-Toledo)
A&M-Rice ........... 2.7 ..... 4,200,000
A&M-'Bama .......... 8.5 ... 13,590,000
A&M-SMU ............ 0.5 ..... 809,000
A&M-Arky ........... 1.7 ..... 2,760,000
A&M-Ole Miss ....... 3.2 ..... 5,110,000
A&M-Auburn ......... 4.2 ..... 6,730,000
A&M-UTEP ........... 0.7 ..... 1,120,000
A&M-MSU ............ 2.9 ..... 4,530,000
A&M-LSU ............ 4.8 ..... 8,140,000
A&M-Mizzou ......... 3.6 ..... 5,730,000
Average share:
A&M ...... 3.28
UT ...... 1.06
Total viewers:
A&M ...... 52,719,000
UT ...... 15,181,000
yea, our game with bama damn near out drew their entire season
Posted on 12/4/13 at 6:23 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
It really doesn't require that at all, especially not for an SEC team. The SEC Champ will always have a seat at the table.
- assuming we win the SEC, agreed. But consider Alabama's situation a few years ago.
As an Ol Ag, I still think we should play tu. Be honest - LSU is a great game, but they aren't our rival and the TV numbers posted earlier are people (non Ags) tuning in to see JF. No JF = no outside interest in our OOC games.
Posted on 12/4/13 at 8:13 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
A&M-UTEP ........... 0.7 ..... 1,120,000
quote:
UT-Tech ............ 0.7 ..... 1,050,000
We had more people watch us sodomize UTEP than the Tceh vs tu game
Posted on 12/4/13 at 11:19 am to Houston Summit
since this thread has turned into it a bit, here is cuppycup's post on tv ratings by team. I have a couple of questions about it (for instance, how is he handling the regional ABC games since SMW doesn't split them?), but it's quite interesting.
But the thing that stands out to me is not how good ours were. We all know that. What stood out to me is that MSU, Ole Miss, and Arkansas, the 3 worst teams in the West, all ended in the top 25 in tv viewership. This, not us, shows the SEC effect. This is the downside and that downside is quite high.
People ignore branding too much. The more people watch the more they want to watch. It's natural. Branding is the entire reason tu (and the SEC) is the marketing machine it is today - they hit a high note just as cfb tv took off. They became who they've spent their lives telling us they were by virtue of the fact that the Big 12 really only got 1 big game a week. They often got it. The world has changed. The Big 12 still really only gets one big game a week but they suck arse so it's not them. It's devastating their brand (like it did to ours) and it's also devastating the Big 12 as a whole but that's a different discussion.
We had our worst decade in the modern era in the first tv decade and got no air time because of the Big 12 contract. And it was suffocating our brand. The only game people watched was against tu. The SEC tv contract assures that our downside going forward is incredibly high. And our upside is a year like this year. That branding power is enormous and playing tu or not, it isn't going away.
So I somewhat dismiss the idea that we shouldn't play them for a few years. It just doesn't matter. It won't ever be like that again.
But the thing that stands out to me is not how good ours were. We all know that. What stood out to me is that MSU, Ole Miss, and Arkansas, the 3 worst teams in the West, all ended in the top 25 in tv viewership. This, not us, shows the SEC effect. This is the downside and that downside is quite high.
People ignore branding too much. The more people watch the more they want to watch. It's natural. Branding is the entire reason tu (and the SEC) is the marketing machine it is today - they hit a high note just as cfb tv took off. They became who they've spent their lives telling us they were by virtue of the fact that the Big 12 really only got 1 big game a week. They often got it. The world has changed. The Big 12 still really only gets one big game a week but they suck arse so it's not them. It's devastating their brand (like it did to ours) and it's also devastating the Big 12 as a whole but that's a different discussion.
We had our worst decade in the modern era in the first tv decade and got no air time because of the Big 12 contract. And it was suffocating our brand. The only game people watched was against tu. The SEC tv contract assures that our downside going forward is incredibly high. And our upside is a year like this year. That branding power is enormous and playing tu or not, it isn't going away.
So I somewhat dismiss the idea that we shouldn't play them for a few years. It just doesn't matter. It won't ever be like that again.
Posted on 12/4/13 at 2:35 pm to Pvt Hudson
quote:
It is time. The new 4 team bowl system requires that we upgrade our OOC opponents and tu (like it or not) carries a national name-brand whether they are good or not. LSU will only be our rival if we are both good - that's how the SEC works outside the Iron and Egg bowls.
Two requirements - it must be Thanksgiving, and it must be home and home (no JerryWorld crap).
Why in the world would we want to play them on TDay except out of sentimentality? Playing them on TDay means we give up the budding LSU rivalry and screw them over. It would be a pain in the arse for the SEC office as well. It also helps Texas significantly while not helping us nearly as much as an early season game.
Play Texas early and then they have the OU game in October and then...... crap. In the meantime we are playing SEC games in late Oct/November and building up to the LSU game on TDay weekend. That's a big win for us.
An advantage and disadvantage of playing Texas early is it becomes the marquee OOC game for both schools. It's really difficult to schedule another marquee game because both of us have a neutral site Conference game. That's a net win for us though. We don't need another marquee game with an SEC schedule, they do.
Want the worst case scenario of not playing the game or of playing the game on TDay? Texas schedules a regular OOC with LSU. That would be a real problem for us and it is very much a possibility if the new AD at Texas has a brain. LSU and Texas would both benefit from that game tremendously at our expense.
A few other conditions, agree on home and home but that's a no brainer.
Neutral conference refs, don't want BDF officials EVER to call that game.
Resume playing in all sports, not just football. That's also a win/win.
No LHN obviously, I'm sure they will also say no SECN and that's fine. I'm sure it will be CBS/ABC/ESPN anyway.
Playing them early has multiple benefits for us as well:
We will likely both be undefeated going in to the game so both teams are more likely to be highly ranked.
A loss doesn't cost us anything in the SEC race and realistically we could lose that game and 99/100 still go to the NC Playoff if we win out. A 1 Loss SEC Champ is in the Playoff, period. There is also plenty of time to recover from a loss and the bragging rights are less so than an end of season game. Memories fade fast when you play 10 more games.
On the flip side it doesn't apply to Texas. They lose to us and their chances of a NC are significantly diminished. A 1 loss BDF Champ is far from a lock for the NC Playoff. Also, because the BDF is considered a weaker league a loss will sting them much more than us. Think of it this way, if Ohio State lost an early OOC game where would they be ranked? Consider that the Big 1G is more respected than the BDF and has a Championship game as well.
Scheduling the game early also prevents our REAL nightmare scenario. What happens if we schedule it on TDay and give up the LSU game. Then 5 years down the road they just cancel. We are screwed. We will have lost our TDay rivalry game and have no replacement. The sips will figure this out and we will be at their mercy. Why give them that leverage?
Posted on 12/4/13 at 3:16 pm to aggressor
quote:
Scheduling the game early also prevents our REAL nightmare scenario. What happens if we schedule it on TDay and give up the LSU game. Then 5 years down the road they just cancel. We are screwed. We will have lost our TDay rivalry game and have no replacement. The sips will figure this out and we will be at their mercy. Why give them that leverage?
This is what I fear when folks say they want the Thanksgiving game with them back. I don't buy that all the shenanigans with the rivalry were DeLoss' fault--t.u. has a proven track record of using the rivalry to strongarm us into kowtowing to what's best for bevo. It's not a recent phenomenon. I don't trust 'em one iota. Playing those snakes again needs to be considered with all the care of another "100 year decision." That includes all the angles they could screw us over. Whatever weekend we eventually have the game on (because I am convinced it will come back eventually), it needs to be one that mitigates the negative repercussions upon us if (and when) they act a fool again.
Posted on 12/4/13 at 3:53 pm to TbirdSpur2010
FWIW, I was listening to Austin Sports Radio and they were talking about their dream schedule. LSU to start the year, OU in the middle, A&M on TDay. That's what got me thinking.
Play them early and it really limits them while giving us the best schedule in CFB.
Play them early and it really limits them while giving us the best schedule in CFB.
Posted on 12/4/13 at 4:03 pm to agswin
I would not mind if we returned to play t.u. but not on Thanksgiving.
We already had to give away our home and home with Arkansas to capture the game with LSU on that weekend.
Playing in Arlington only helps Arkansas (for recruiting Texas athletes). It doesn't help us at all. In fact it is one less game at Kyle.
We already had to give away our home and home with Arkansas to capture the game with LSU on that weekend.
Playing in Arlington only helps Arkansas (for recruiting Texas athletes). It doesn't help us at all. In fact it is one less game at Kyle.
Posted on 12/4/13 at 4:08 pm to agswin
quote:
Playing in Arlington only helps Arkansas (for recruiting Texas athletes). It doesn't help us at all.
strongly disagree. I hate that game in DFW. But the reason it hasn't helped us is because until Cook/Sumlin we sucked at marketing. It's a premier stadium that every kid in DFW dreams of playing in and that makes it a premier showcase.
Sumlin gets it and unlike Sherman who saw it as just another game, you better believe Sumlin will market the hell out of that. Every top prospect from '15 to '17 in North Texas will probably visit for that game next year. Due to game conflicts, rides, etc, that never happens for home games.
Posted on 12/4/13 at 4:19 pm to tmc94
quote:
But they're not morons.
Letting us go to the SEC alone says otherwise.
Posted on 12/4/13 at 4:38 pm to tmc94
quote:
Sumlin gets it and unlike Sherman who saw it as just another game, you better believe Sumlin will market the hell out of that. Every top prospect from '15 to '17 in North Texas will probably visit for that game next year. Due to game conflicts, rides, etc, that never happens for home games.
Last SEC meetings we introduced the ability to host recruits at neutral site games. Recruits will be impressed at Jerry World.
Posted on 12/4/13 at 5:11 pm to TeLeFaWx
Agree with all of this. Sumlin definitely seems to look at everything in terms of a marketing/recruiting opportunity and he will make recruits feel like they are at the Super Bowl.
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