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I'm not happy with that LSU game.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 10:57 am
Posted on 10/22/12 at 10:57 am
It's Monday at the office, and I can reflect a bit more reasonably.
- One play that sticks out to me, is a busted coverage play where Ryan ended up 20 yards behind the nearest defender, Johnny was rolling right, and didn't see him. There wasn't an offensive lineman in front of him, he was simply panicking, and staring down the receiver that was darting towards the sideline. That can't happen. I would like to be optimistic and believe that when Johnny is a junior and a senior it won't, but the offense is still not something he has mastered. He needs to play games against fast defenses, and experience it, and learn from it. And he doesn't have that many chances. Alabama is comping up. Ryan Swope 20 yards behind the last defender, and Johnny needs to make that play. The opponent doesn't matter. That is a mistake that should never be made again.
- We should have lost by a lot more. A whole hell of a lot more. If Mettenberger was hald way decent, we get beat on the deep ball about 4 or 5 more times than we did. It is amazing we kept it as close as we did. Simply blind luck.
- Red zone offense is horrendous, and anyone that didn't see that coming from day 1, is blind. We are an air raid team. We can't run the ball at will on an athletic defense out of the air raid, even with a few NFL prospects on the offensive line. Simply put, we won't ever go through another season where we don't face NFL talent on a defensive line multiple time a year. It is a fact of life. We have to be able to adjust to that. Johnny is a scrambler, and designed runs aren't playing to his strengths inside the trenches. We need to either develop a full back, and be conventional, or get more talent at the receiver and tight end positions and be able to beat tight or double coverage inside the red zone. That isn't going to change. The air raid is a trade off. You have a numbers advantage until the redzone, where you are at a disadvantage. This might not have been so obvious to Kliff when Conference USA defenders don't present any matchup problems, but it sure as frick better be now. We are going to play big, strong, athletic defenses and they aren't going to have a cover 2 shell when the endzone is right behind them. Is Johnny accurate enough to throw the fade? Can we get Derrick Griffin or RSJ? If not, we don't have an answer. We simply don't. Remember the last decade of getting stomped by OU? Alabama says hello.
- Our defensive backs are very poor. DeVante Harris is just so small. I don't know what do think about 3 and a half more years of him.
- Johnny at times abandoned the pocket as soon as possible, but he did try and stay in a bit more than he did against Florida. Not where he needs to be by any stretch, but better.
As I reflect, I look at it like this, and this is really what is eating at me. LSU has an incredible defense, but offensively I don't know a position outside of RB where they were better than us, and even then, our RBs would fill in to their stable. Evans and Swope and maybe Thomas Johnson are clearly more talented than anything LSU had to offer. Johnny is so much better than Mettenberger it is almost laughable. I don't know if DaMontre is that incredible, or LSU's line is just somewhat mediocre, but our offensive line is more talented, imo. Vastly. And this is the question that remains. Sure, we can put up tons of yards, but when those all come from our 20 to the opponents 30, who cares? You don't get points for yards. When we have what looks to me to be one of the most talented offense in the country, at what point are we not expected to put up 35 points, even against good defenses? Would a different system make a difference? I honestly want o look at it objectively and decide. I know we are committed to the air raid. We can't magically mix in a different system. That isn't how it works. But are there plays we can run that could be more effective? At what point can we view the offense failures as systematic, and not based on lack of talent, or poor execution? If the goal is to win a National Title, would a coach that knows how to win a National Title come in and run this offense? We will see how the rest of the year goes, but this is the most disgusted I have been with Aggie Football since Sumlin was hired.
- One play that sticks out to me, is a busted coverage play where Ryan ended up 20 yards behind the nearest defender, Johnny was rolling right, and didn't see him. There wasn't an offensive lineman in front of him, he was simply panicking, and staring down the receiver that was darting towards the sideline. That can't happen. I would like to be optimistic and believe that when Johnny is a junior and a senior it won't, but the offense is still not something he has mastered. He needs to play games against fast defenses, and experience it, and learn from it. And he doesn't have that many chances. Alabama is comping up. Ryan Swope 20 yards behind the last defender, and Johnny needs to make that play. The opponent doesn't matter. That is a mistake that should never be made again.
- We should have lost by a lot more. A whole hell of a lot more. If Mettenberger was hald way decent, we get beat on the deep ball about 4 or 5 more times than we did. It is amazing we kept it as close as we did. Simply blind luck.
- Red zone offense is horrendous, and anyone that didn't see that coming from day 1, is blind. We are an air raid team. We can't run the ball at will on an athletic defense out of the air raid, even with a few NFL prospects on the offensive line. Simply put, we won't ever go through another season where we don't face NFL talent on a defensive line multiple time a year. It is a fact of life. We have to be able to adjust to that. Johnny is a scrambler, and designed runs aren't playing to his strengths inside the trenches. We need to either develop a full back, and be conventional, or get more talent at the receiver and tight end positions and be able to beat tight or double coverage inside the red zone. That isn't going to change. The air raid is a trade off. You have a numbers advantage until the redzone, where you are at a disadvantage. This might not have been so obvious to Kliff when Conference USA defenders don't present any matchup problems, but it sure as frick better be now. We are going to play big, strong, athletic defenses and they aren't going to have a cover 2 shell when the endzone is right behind them. Is Johnny accurate enough to throw the fade? Can we get Derrick Griffin or RSJ? If not, we don't have an answer. We simply don't. Remember the last decade of getting stomped by OU? Alabama says hello.
- Our defensive backs are very poor. DeVante Harris is just so small. I don't know what do think about 3 and a half more years of him.
- Johnny at times abandoned the pocket as soon as possible, but he did try and stay in a bit more than he did against Florida. Not where he needs to be by any stretch, but better.
As I reflect, I look at it like this, and this is really what is eating at me. LSU has an incredible defense, but offensively I don't know a position outside of RB where they were better than us, and even then, our RBs would fill in to their stable. Evans and Swope and maybe Thomas Johnson are clearly more talented than anything LSU had to offer. Johnny is so much better than Mettenberger it is almost laughable. I don't know if DaMontre is that incredible, or LSU's line is just somewhat mediocre, but our offensive line is more talented, imo. Vastly. And this is the question that remains. Sure, we can put up tons of yards, but when those all come from our 20 to the opponents 30, who cares? You don't get points for yards. When we have what looks to me to be one of the most talented offense in the country, at what point are we not expected to put up 35 points, even against good defenses? Would a different system make a difference? I honestly want o look at it objectively and decide. I know we are committed to the air raid. We can't magically mix in a different system. That isn't how it works. But are there plays we can run that could be more effective? At what point can we view the offense failures as systematic, and not based on lack of talent, or poor execution? If the goal is to win a National Title, would a coach that knows how to win a National Title come in and run this offense? We will see how the rest of the year goes, but this is the most disgusted I have been with Aggie Football since Sumlin was hired.
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Posted on 10/22/12 at 10:58 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:
but this is the most disgusted I have been with Aggie Football since Sumlin was hired.
Not disgusted by the hire, just since that time. Most disgusted since 25-27 I should say.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 11:06 am to TeLeFaWx
Great post, a lot of digest and I wish I had more time right now.
I did not think we'd be SUCH a between-the-20s team, I have to admit. I hope someone asks KK about incorporating the run game at the presser - I want to trust his offensive reasoning but I'm confused.
And agreed on Manziel missing a lot of open receivers...this isn't the first game in which it's happened, just the first in which it's been so damaging.
quote:
WThe air raid is a trade off. You have a numbers advantage until the redzone, where you are at a disadvantage.
I did not think we'd be SUCH a between-the-20s team, I have to admit. I hope someone asks KK about incorporating the run game at the presser - I want to trust his offensive reasoning but I'm confused.
And agreed on Manziel missing a lot of open receivers...this isn't the first game in which it's happened, just the first in which it's been so damaging.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 11:35 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:
develop a full back
Posted on 10/22/12 at 11:41 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:
DeVante Harris is just so small. I don't know what do think about 3 and a half more years of him.
DeVante Harris is hurt and didn't play.
"Toast" Harris (#22) started and played most of the game.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 11:47 am to joe.liberst
quote:
develop a full back
Even then, it doesn't fit the air raid. It is almost counter productive. If you have multiple backs, you've brought more defenders in to the box. It seems like a no win unless you have a receiving mismatch, or you have a tight end that can stretch the field, and they can't stack the box in fear. Basically without Calvin Johnson and Gronkowski, I didn't see the air raid working. I want to be proven wrong, and if there is a QB that can do it, it is probably Johnny. But what if he can't? What happens when we lose Johnny? How anemic are we going to look?
Posted on 10/22/12 at 11:49 am to TeLeFaWx
I agree with a ton of your points. But one thing I keep going back to is the inside the 20 issue. This is, I think, a matter of Manziel trusting his read, trusting his arm, and getting throws out on time.I expect him to improve at this. I expect him to learn to throw a fade (has he hit a single one to Evans this year?). Hell, I'd have him working on mechanics and throwing a fade pass all spring.
It probably won't fix itself this year. JFF is getting better every week but the big progression will come in the offseason when he can practice such things over and over. Our coaches need to show they can not only recognize the talent and what he can do, but harness it and tailor an offense to fit his skills and mask his weaknesses.
It probably won't fix itself this year. JFF is getting better every week but the big progression will come in the offseason when he can practice such things over and over. Our coaches need to show they can not only recognize the talent and what he can do, but harness it and tailor an offense to fit his skills and mask his weaknesses.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 12:03 pm to tmc94
quote:
I agree with a ton of your points. But one thing I keep going back to is the inside the 20 issue. This is, I think, a matter of Manziel trusting his read, trusting his arm, and getting throws out on time.I expect him to improve at this. I expect him to learn to throw a fade (has he hit a single one to Evans this year?). Hell, I'd have him working on mechanics and throwing a fade pass all spring.
I don't think it is that simple. The air raid uses short, intermediate, and long routes to be successful. If one route isn't open, 95% of the time, another will be. What happens when they jam the receivers at the line, and the timing gets disrupted, and there is too much pressure to not get the ball out quickly on routes that aren't there? Because this is what happens. Johnny tries to scramble, and usually doesn't stand a chance. I like pass happy offenses. I like to throw the ball 60% of the time. But the best passers in the world at the highest level still have to have an offense with the fear of the run. Again. I want to be proven wrong, and Johnny is the QB to do it. We will see. I know Johnny is young, but he has proven to be capable enough. We play Alabama in 3 weeks. This is the caliber of defense we want to be able to overcome, or at least not look hopeless against. I really don't know how long I can see multiple levels of ineptitude with the talent we have on offense. Mike Evans, Ryan Swope, Luke Joeckel, Jake Matthews, Christine Michael, and Johnny Football should be able to score, even on Alabama's defense. If the system we play fundamentally allows their defense to mitigate our talent in the red zone, I don't know how long I can watch our games with a hopeful outlook. I know it was a 5 point loss to LSU, but you put a one armed AJ MaCarron on that field for the Tigers, and he makes twice as many throws as Mettenberger did, and there are a lot less sunshine pumpers talking about moral victories on TexAgs.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 12:09 pm to TeLeFaWx
dude, you seriously need to find the return key on the keyboard 
I'd say we haven't really seen this offense. The Leach version had a lot of quick slants but JFF isn't reading the field presnap to execute them (though we are staring). Those quick throws at the goalline are critical to making us successful in the redzone. You have to read the defense and let it rip. He really hasn't done that at any part of the field and it shows in the red zone the most.
There are actually quite a few offenses that throw a lot in the red zone these days even in the NFL but they all depend on excellent QBing. JFF is an exceptional talent but he's still just really raw.
I'd say we haven't really seen this offense. The Leach version had a lot of quick slants but JFF isn't reading the field presnap to execute them (though we are staring). Those quick throws at the goalline are critical to making us successful in the redzone. You have to read the defense and let it rip. He really hasn't done that at any part of the field and it shows in the red zone the most.
There are actually quite a few offenses that throw a lot in the red zone these days even in the NFL but they all depend on excellent QBing. JFF is an exceptional talent but he's still just really raw.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 12:20 pm to tmc94
quote:
dude, you seriously need to find the return key on the keyboard
Lol my bad.
quote:
I'd say we haven't really seen this offense.
I would disagree on this.
quote:
The Leach version had a lot of quick slants but JFF isn't reading the field presnap to execute them (though we are staring). Those quick throws at the goalline are critical to making us successful in the redzone. You have to read the defense and let it rip. He really hasn't done that at any part of the field and it shows in the red zone the most.
I think he really hasn't done as bad of a job at that as you think. Slant routes just aren't as effective as you're making them out to be. In the red zone, athletic and physical DBs just ruin the timing of these routes, and since their isn't anyone deep, a lot of pressure can be brought further disrupting the passer.
At the NFL you see much more grabs at the back of the endzone by impossibly large and athletic tight ends than you do small slot receivers. The opposite is true in Conference USA.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 12:50 pm to TeLeFaWx
Cannot help but agree with most of your points (save being disgusted with the football program--i know, i know, there are no moral victories, and I'm beyond ready for us to start winning these big games, but the fact still stands that our roster is chock full of underclassmen still learning the ropes of this offensive system and, for the most part, excelling at it).
JFF had plays he needed to make. So did the defense (the unit I thought played the best on Saturday), and special teams. People like to talk about "team wins," but this was the perfect example of a "team loss."
In short, I am unhappy, but far from disgusted. Not sunshine pumping, just trying to stay grounded.
JFF had plays he needed to make. So did the defense (the unit I thought played the best on Saturday), and special teams. People like to talk about "team wins," but this was the perfect example of a "team loss."
In short, I am unhappy, but far from disgusted. Not sunshine pumping, just trying to stay grounded.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 12:50 pm to TeLeFaWx
I think you make some valid points but some of theme don't add up. For instance you criticize the Red Zone offense strongly and our ability to score in the Red Zone. We had 2 TD's though in the RZ, both running by someone not named Manziel. We had a 3rd drive that resulted in a missed FG but that wasn't a scheme issue it was all execution. Johnny went right instead of left to the hole and blocking on 1st Down and he just missed his throw to EZ on 3rd down. Better execution and either is a score. All our other drives stalled outside the 20. This was still LSU we were playing here, what level of Red Zone success were you expecting?
This game was lost on execution, period. You can blame that on coaches or players but it was the execution that killed us.
4 turnovers, all of which were preventable.
Multiple killer penalties (esp the Hurd PI and the incredibly stupid chop block that cost us the Malena TD).
Johnny struggled in seeing his open read and in the realization that as soon as he started to run against a team this fast he was going to get caught.
Kicking game, enough said.
Our only 2 areas that we lack talent right now is at DB and at Kicker. We just have to get more depth at DB. Kicker is harder to read because sometimes those guys get it together mentally, Bertolet doesn't lack for leg strength. I almost want us to send out the backup for chip shots and extra points and just bring him out for anything 40+ but that would likely screw up his head even worse.
I don't know that I buy we should have lost this game a lot worse. If we don't have the turnovers we certainly win. I also think that even though they had a few open guys deep the wind really affected those balls for both teams and honestly the passes would have had to be perfect. Had we executed though in the first half we are up big on LSU though and I don't know that they are able to come back. We have to play close to error free to win at that level and for that matter LSU does as well against us. The difference is that they DO execute and they know how to take advantage of our mistakes.
This team will get better. Manziel is just learning some hard lessons. The scramble runs that worked against other teams don't work against the big time defenses. He has to be patient and execute the offense. Honestly he needs to be so good at it that he can "feel" the openings before they happen. A great Air Raid QB is a surgeon that just knows exactly how to dissect a defense. If you add in Johnny's playmaking ability on top of that to go with a great OL, great RB's, and a solid defense you have a recipe for going all the way. Essentially that is Oregon right now.
This game was lost on execution, period. You can blame that on coaches or players but it was the execution that killed us.
4 turnovers, all of which were preventable.
Multiple killer penalties (esp the Hurd PI and the incredibly stupid chop block that cost us the Malena TD).
Johnny struggled in seeing his open read and in the realization that as soon as he started to run against a team this fast he was going to get caught.
Kicking game, enough said.
Our only 2 areas that we lack talent right now is at DB and at Kicker. We just have to get more depth at DB. Kicker is harder to read because sometimes those guys get it together mentally, Bertolet doesn't lack for leg strength. I almost want us to send out the backup for chip shots and extra points and just bring him out for anything 40+ but that would likely screw up his head even worse.
I don't know that I buy we should have lost this game a lot worse. If we don't have the turnovers we certainly win. I also think that even though they had a few open guys deep the wind really affected those balls for both teams and honestly the passes would have had to be perfect. Had we executed though in the first half we are up big on LSU though and I don't know that they are able to come back. We have to play close to error free to win at that level and for that matter LSU does as well against us. The difference is that they DO execute and they know how to take advantage of our mistakes.
This team will get better. Manziel is just learning some hard lessons. The scramble runs that worked against other teams don't work against the big time defenses. He has to be patient and execute the offense. Honestly he needs to be so good at it that he can "feel" the openings before they happen. A great Air Raid QB is a surgeon that just knows exactly how to dissect a defense. If you add in Johnny's playmaking ability on top of that to go with a great OL, great RB's, and a solid defense you have a recipe for going all the way. Essentially that is Oregon right now.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 1:07 pm to aggressor
We had 1 TD and it was our opening drive.
Excuses are for losers is what it comes down to. If execution isnt up to par, that falls on the coaches. They are supposed to coach the kids to execute.
Saying losing is ok, "next year," and making excuses is the old army way. Lets stop it already. I just hope we are finally past clapping for the team as they come off the field during a loss.
Excuses are for losers is what it comes down to. If execution isnt up to par, that falls on the coaches. They are supposed to coach the kids to execute.
Saying losing is ok, "next year," and making excuses is the old army way. Lets stop it already. I just hope we are finally past clapping for the team as they come off the field during a loss.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 2:07 pm to LegacyAggie
Did the last TD not count? 
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:15 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
Basically without Calvin Johnson and Gronkowski, I didn't see the air raid working.
Hopefully we can get some more good size WRs that can help us in the redzone. I could see Sealy-Jones/Mike Evans combo being pretty tough to cover in the redzone.
A four verticals route with them two and some real burners would be awesome.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:21 pm to aggressor
quote:
Did the last TD not count?
It was a junk TD. Everyone knew it.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:46 pm to LegacyAggie
A&M gets the onside kick and they have the ball with a minute left to score. Hard to call that one junk. The called back TD on Malena was also a great offensive call and the block would have been irrelevant as Joekel had already driven him back.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 5:08 pm to aggressor
KK needs to learn to run the ball, or this team will continue to lose close games it should absolutely win.
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