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re: I'll give Sumlin this, he's changed up his recruiting strategy
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:42 pm to Texas Weazel
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:42 pm to Texas Weazel
The contract is worse than sumlin. Sumlin is painfully average and comfortable with that. The contract is not average.
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Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:48 pm to Texas Weazel
quote:
You're betting very wrong.
Strong - offset clause (50%), buyout payable over 3 years
Miles - offset clause (100%), buyout payable over 6 years
Helfrich - offset clause (100%), buyout payable over 4 years
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:07 pm to Nguyening
quote:
The contract is worse than sumlin. Sumlin is painfully average and comfortable with that. The contract is not average.
Who said the contract was average? I personally think all the contracts in college football are bad. A college coach should not be making more than a school president IMO. But it's what the market dictates, so complaining about it is like complaining about seat prices. It's part of doing business.
quote:
Strong - offset clause (50%), buyout payable over 3 years
Miles - offset clause (100%), buyout payable over 6 years
Helfrich - offset clause (100%), buyout payable over 4 years
At the end of the day, we gave a contract that was needed to be paid in order to keep USC and the NFL away. It was a choice made in 2012 and every captain hindsight in here wants to use their super powers to cry about it
. Every person complaining about it would have also complained had we lost Sumlin after 2012 to USC fresh off of an 11-2 campaign with a Heisman winner. There was also the NFL at our doorstep with their "diversity problem" and the Rooney rule. No ridiculous contract would have meant hiring a new HC for the 2013 season. Sumlin would have left.Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:23 pm to Texas Weazel
quote:
What track records are those?
Stoops - 1 National title, 4 National championship appearances, 1 playoff appearance, 10 conference championships, 13 10-win seasons (out of 17 overall)
Jimbo - 1 National title, 1 playoff appearance, 3 conference championships and 5 10-win seasons (in 6 total seasons), 1 National title as Offensive Coordinator.
Dabo - 1 National title appearance, 1 cfb playoff win, 2 conference championships, 6 straight 10-win seasons
Harbaugh - built 2 separate cfb programs, 1 Super Bowl appearance, 3 NFC championship game appearances in 4 years
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:34 pm to Texas Weazel
quote:
At the end of the day, we gave a contract that was needed to be paid in order to keep USC and the NFL away. It was a choice made in 2012 and every captain hindsight in here wants to use their super powers to cry about it . Every person complaining about it would have also complained had we lost Sumlin after 2012 to USC fresh off of an 11-2 campaign with a Heisman winner. There was also the NFL at our doorstep with their "diversity problem" and the Rooney rule. No ridiculous contract would have meant hiring a new HC for the 2013 season. Sumlin would have left.
Sumlin was given his current contract after the 2013 season. So not only do you fail to grasp the simple concept that even amongst all bad contracts, some contracts are worse than others, you can't even get basic facts straights
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:22 pm to NanosTacoRun
Yeah, sumlin was going to walk from undeserved top 5 money if he didn't get the 60 day buyout clause lol.
We made the fatal mistake of assuming his perceived value to us, was what others perceived his value to be.
We made the fatal mistake of assuming his perceived value to us, was what others perceived his value to be.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:24 pm to Nguyening
Kevin Sumlin has more home losses after 5 seasons than Dennis Franchione did.
Also, it's interesting that Weazel mentions Bob Stoops, who has 9 home losses his entire tenure at Oklahoma.
Also, it's interesting that Weazel mentions Bob Stoops, who has 9 home losses his entire tenure at Oklahoma.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:37 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
Kevin Sumlin has more home losses after 5 seasons than Dennis Franchione did.
Fran didn't have to face QBs like Jeff Driscoll, Danny Etling, Jeremy Johnson, Anthony Jennings, Bo Wallace and Maty Mauk, so it's not really a fair comparison
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:42 pm to NanosTacoRun
quote:
Stoops - 1 National title, 4 National championship appearances, 1 playoff appearance, 10 conference championships, 13 10-win seasons (out of 17 overall)
Jimbo - 1 National title, 1 playoff appearance, 3 conference championships and 5 10-win seasons (in 6 total seasons), 1 National title as Offensive Coordinator.
Dabo - 1 National title appearance, 1 cfb playoff win, 2 conference championships, 6 straight 10-win seasons
Harbaugh - built 2 separate cfb programs, 1 Super Bowl appearance, 3 NFC championship game appearances in 4 years
I already went over why those contracts are also bad. Not going over it again. If you truly believe that all those coaches are going to win a national championship, then that's your opinion. But I don't see Dabo, Jimbo, or Stoops winning a championship within the current terms of their contract. Harbaugh? Maybe, but for all we know he could take a step back next year and never recover. We just don't know and Michigan took a similar risk that we took and you know it. He has never won a P5 conference championship...just like a certain coach we don't like.
quote:
Sumlin was given his current contract after the 2013 season. So not only do you fail to grasp the simple concept that even amongst all bad contracts, some contracts are worse than others, you can't even get basic facts straights
True. I mistook 2013 for 2012. But it still doesn't change the fact that he was a hot commodity even at that point. NFL wanted black coaches for diversity reasons. Sumlin had choices in 2012 and 2013 and everyone and their mama wanted to keep him. The structure of the contract is what the market dictated. End of story. Why can't you understand that? This is no different than buying a house in an up and coming neighborhood and then the property value bottoming out a few years later. You pay what the market says you have to pay.
He was given what was fair considering the competition that was vetting him. So stop crying about the business of college football. We get that you don't like him (and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in this board that does), but crying about the contract is ridiculous Captain Hindsight.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:50 pm to Nguyening
quote:
Yeah, sumlin was going to walk from undeserved top 5 money if he didn't get the 60 day buyout clause lol.
Well, how do you know that 60 day clause wasn't the difference maker? Make no mistake, the dude had options. And at the end of the day you choose the job that gives you the better options.
Contrary to popular belief, our boosters aren't idiots who like to waste their money. They did what had to be done to keep him, which is what the majority of our fanbase wanted. They didn't just blindly throw money at him. Did the investment turn bad? It looks like it's going to be, but we paid fair market price for that investment during that time.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:50 pm to Texas Weazel
To say giving Harbaugh a monster contract was at all similar to giving Sumlin a monster contract is insane and indiotic. You're talking about one guy who went 11-1 in his last two years at San Diego, built Stanford from nothing into a giant, went to three NFC championship games and one super bowl, was NFL coach of the year, and outside of his last NFL season generally has not done worse than the season before his entire career. The dude is a winner in every aspect of the game and he was the most sought after coach on every level of the game. If he wanted to go back to the NFL he could find a team. Any college team would take him in a heartbeat.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:58 pm to Texas Weazel
In retrospect Sumlin's contract was a bad idea.
I agree people at the time thought it was in the program's best interest because it would create stability before Sumlin left to the NFL. It would have been very unlikely given the level he was recruiting at when the contract was executed that someone would have been in opposition to it.
I agree people at the time thought it was in the program's best interest because it would create stability before Sumlin left to the NFL. It would have been very unlikely given the level he was recruiting at when the contract was executed that someone would have been in opposition to it.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:59 pm to Warrior Poet
quote:
To say giving Harbaugh a monster contract was at all similar to giving Sumlin a monster contract is insane and indiotic. You're talking about one guy who went 11-1 in his last two years at San Diego, built Stanford from nothing into a giant,
But again, no conference championships.
quote:
went to three NFC championship games and one super bowl, was NFL coach of the year, and outside of his last NFL season generally has not done worse than the season before his entire career.
We learned a long time ago that NFL success doesn't translate to college. Sherman can attest to that.
quote:
The dude is a winner in every aspect of the game and he was the most sought after coach on every level of the game. If he wanted to go back to the NFL he could find a team. Any college team would take him in a heartbeat.
So that warrants national championship money??? Because what you're saying is eerie similar to what was said about Sumlin before his contract extension (minus NFL experience of course)
. Manziel school records? Cotton bowl victory? Heisman? Alabama Victory? Remember those arguments? For all we know, Harbaugh may start sucking after 5 years. He has never been HC at one place for over 4 years. Michigan is taking the same risk we took in that nobody knows if the coach will turn out to be a good one.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 3:04 pm to Texas Weazel
If you think Michigan is taking the same risks we took you are fricking high.
Everyone is taking risk to some degree, but you can't objectively compare Sumlin's resume as of 2012 and Harbaugh's as of 2014, and conclude the two situations are similar, given their experience and overall records, taking into consideration the programs they took over
Everyone is taking risk to some degree, but you can't objectively compare Sumlin's resume as of 2012 and Harbaugh's as of 2014, and conclude the two situations are similar, given their experience and overall records, taking into consideration the programs they took over
Posted on 12/3/16 at 3:09 pm to Warrior Poet
Just to follow up, The two coaches at Stanford before Harbaugh were 10-23 and 6-17. Harbaugh basically did what Briles did for Baylor without ignoring the rules and recruiting criminals. Not to mention the academic qualifiers Harbaugh had to constrain him.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 3:10 pm to Warrior Poet
quote:
If you think Michigan is taking the same risks we took you are fricking high.
Are you 100% sure Harbaugh is going to succeed and win a national championship???? Or how about that Harbaugh won't suddenly start sucking? Because a risk is a risk at the end of the day. Especially with a coach that has never won a P5 conference championship.
This post was edited on 12/3/16 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 12/3/16 at 3:16 pm to Texas Weazel
No one is sure genius but it's a measure of risk and you are trying to compare two risks that are incomparable.
If you want to say that giving Sumlin the contract we did was the best choice we could have made at the time we made it, I'm not sure whether I agree but at the time I agree there was a real fear we were going to lose Sumlin. Now I suspect that "fear" was complete bullshite outside of maybe USC because Billy Liucci just let rumors fly around and never squashed them like he should have.
But stop making dumb frick comparisons because people are getting distracted by the stupid shite you're saying to prove your point from your ultimate point.
If you want to say that giving Sumlin the contract we did was the best choice we could have made at the time we made it, I'm not sure whether I agree but at the time I agree there was a real fear we were going to lose Sumlin. Now I suspect that "fear" was complete bullshite outside of maybe USC because Billy Liucci just let rumors fly around and never squashed them like he should have.
But stop making dumb frick comparisons because people are getting distracted by the stupid shite you're saying to prove your point from your ultimate point.
This post was edited on 12/3/16 at 3:18 pm
Posted on 12/3/16 at 3:48 pm to Warrior Poet
We've been trolled or we've been arguing with an idiot. It's best now to just walk away.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 4:32 pm to Warrior Poet
quote:
If you want to say that giving Sumlin the contract we did was the best choice we could have made at the time we made it, I'm not sure whether I agree but at the time I agree there was a real fear we were going to lose Sumlin.
And that's the entire point I've been trying to make! But y'all keep bashing everything that involves Sumlin to no end that it took y'all this long to understand that. I'm no Sumlin apologist...just trying to make you understand what we were up against and why the contract extension was warranted (again...AT THE TIME). Has it turned out to be a bad deal? It's ending up to be highly likely.
There's a risk with every hire like it or not, even with Harbaugh. With Sumlin, we had just came off our fourth ever 11+ win season (or fifth? I can't remember), had a Heisman winner for the second time in school history (and contending again in 2013), and broke school records left and right. Can you imagine the reaction of our fanbase had we let him walk after all this? We were doing things we hadn't done or had not done in a very long time. Of course we were going to match and beat any offer he got. What we did was very warranted for the info we had and the competition that we were up against at the time.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 4:45 pm to Texas Weazel
Then don't use stupid examples/comparisons to prove your point. Stick to the facts.
And with respect to the facts, others have disagreed with your position. I tend to agree given how lop sided the agreement with Sumlin is. There are some risks we should just not assume.
And with respect to the facts, others have disagreed with your position. I tend to agree given how lop sided the agreement with Sumlin is. There are some risks we should just not assume.
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