re: Concept Uniforms

STFU, unless you're here to correct betweenthebara on D&C guys

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Clearly it happened because the Corps got too much attention.

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Nothing is so black or white.

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What's the highest national ranking A&M has ever had in my lifetime? #2 in 1975 during Emory Bellard's tenure, when nobody gave a damn how A&M students were perceived. Nut up, dammit.

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Completely different era finest. After the OU lawsuit and tv the entire sport changed. I only think from the mid 80s on really apply as a comparison point. That is "modern football" IMHO. I think that almont national title attempt in 1975 is almost as relevant as 1939 to the modern landscape. Almost. And that is because we didn't do it.

I actually have an offseason thread I am saving about 1975 I can't wait to ask yall. Suffice to say, a national title then would have helped our recruiting more in the last decade than any branding message. Everything is relative.

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Nut up, dammit.

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There is no "nut up."

That is basically at the core of it all. Structured military and engineering types that have been attacking this thing like a math problem for 30 years. We have created a convenient lie that there is some formula to allow everyone to be part of the team and have input, but really the 12th man does as much as any other fanbase can do. Actually maybe less, because lets be honest no one is louder than drunk LSU fans.

There is no way to do twice as many pushups, or cut twice as many logs, and still get your way and win. This isn't some binary problem where the right inputs can be applied and X result happens. Defocusing the corps is only PART of the picture, it will takes and has taken a lot more to bring the sort of results we expect.

But perception and brand perception matters, I think even outside of football. Honestly I think we should strive to have a more inclusive brand because its the right thing to do. I think putting the corps on a pedestal so that it is the primary perception of A&M excludes most of the Aggies in the system. It is fricking dishonest, and if Johnny didn't hate frick that honor code to death we should want to put forth a more representative sample of what A&M is. Because not only is that the right thing to do, but because that more inclusive message also helps football.

And that is what is happening. This is the path Cook set us on, and now ten years from my graduation the message coming from A&M is a lot different. I think a few more tweaks, and some restraints to maintain Cook's momentum, and we are set. I am not talking about a sea change.

I am talking about accepting in our hearts that A&M is not the A&M of 39 or 75 and that is a GOOD thing for the state of Texas.

Now that I am home from work and can focus a bit more on this:

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In fact I HATE your lie. I have seen it before and I hate it.

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1. I will assume you did not intentionally call me a liar. But if you did F*** you.

2. From my personal experience with hiring managers, department directors, and people in positions of school leadership; I can tell you that Aggies are valued and sought out. It is because of exactly what I stated above. This coming from HR managers and department heads at companies like Humana, Roadway, FFE Transportation, Amino Transport, Nova Steel and others. The commandant at VMI. A member of the intelligence community that graduated from Mary Baldwin and was a member of the first class to go through VWIL, and had men under her command in the US Navy and others. Professors and mentors at schools like Hardin-Simmons, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and others.

They all came back to similar traits: Stick-to-it-tiveness. Trustworthiness, work ethic, readiness for command, readiness for the work force. Aggies are grounded and look for the best way to make everyone in the organization succeed.

2. A couple of examples of how sought after Aggies are

from 2010

from this year

You may think it is all a lie. But it is not. The "product" (grads) that A&M turns out are indeed special and are better in many ways than most of our competition.

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I will assume you did not intentionally call me a liar. But if you did F*** you.

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Now way am I calling you a liar, I am saying I don't believe the line that A&M molded people into who they are. I think that is a lie, not that you are a liar. Well it is part of the equation, but we aren't the good people factory or something.

Anywho I am genuinely sorry if you felt I was disparaging your honesty. Quite the opposite, I very much appreciate you taking the time to post on here and I am taking you at your word. I just don't agree partially thats all. Sorry again.

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The "product" (grads) that A&M turns out are indeed special and are better in many ways than most of our competition.

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I can appreciate that sentiment to a certain degree, even though I think most of it is the fact that what A&M has attracted some of the best "raw materials" possible. That is still something to be proud of, but that isn't all of it.

Part of it is A&M was positioned in the right place. Texas dominated the 20th century as liberal arts shined, while in the 21st century where business and STEM degrees are most needed in the job market A&M is in the perfect position to crank them out. We are the only game in town at an affordable rate in the state in certain places, and in a state with 26 million people that is a huge advantage. I can't wait to bring that momentum into law and future politics more.

Part of it is the fact that A&M's size does kind of forces you to be independant person who is responsible. A&M weeds people out like few private colleges can really afford to do, and by senior year it shows.

Finally there is the network, the values, the shared experiences and the massive scale team building exercises. All of what is Aggie goes into the formula. I just think that we have to recognize the starting point comes from the diversity and therefore excellent of the stock coming in, which therefore necessitates a more inclusive (aka most non-reg) image.

Sorry again for the offense.

Haha. I'd do it. Basketball was my sport.

Easy money pops.

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What happened the last time A&M played a Big12 team? WITH the Corps block?

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Look finest, I am Aggie circa 2014ish. I am not talking about results on the field, I am talking about recruiting.

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I'd argue with anybody who thinks football recruits watch A&M football on TV and thinks "Ooh, I don't want to go there. They're all military." That's nonsense.

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No, but part of that is the fact that despite what has been like a 100 year campaign to the contrary, not everyone takes the corps and equals the military. Not all of that good will, or positive vibe comes over. I think many people can discern the difference, and then overestimate the importance of a corps membership as a necessity to the full A&M experience.

Some of that is a generation gap. For older generations, supporting the soldiers is sacred. That was a huge thing during the Iraq War, support the soldiers even if you didn't support the war, which I assume is an American generation backlashing to the less nuanced way the Vietnam War was handled (where low level troops got blame and shame). There is a pride associated with the military that carries through on defense spending and to the corps for many older Aggies and Texans. I have seen too many Aggies trot out a defense of the corps that is the same one that got a ton of people to put yellow ribbons on their car ten years ago.

It is different with younger generations. Millennials in particular are more jaded when their Gulf War didn't go as well as the last one. At a more basic level, to a rebellious 18 year old the military represents an enforced authority like the one they are looking to get away from. Some people need the social and life structure, hence the frats in college, but even in colleges with large Greek populations that usually doesn't go over 25% of the student body. And even at those rates, no single Greek organization has their brand raised to the level of the university. What is attractive to most civilian students is freedom to pursue the life of success they want enabled by the university and community around it that they chose to attend.

I think the frat comparison is too far for the corps, as it is a single unit with a bigger part of A&M's history and traditions. With that said, I wish there would be more respect for the work of the past and what has organically grown out of that process. Namely:

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The truth that you won't admit is you're pissed that civilian students have no real identity compared to the Corps.

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This BS.

I mean yes, compared to what you went through a non-regs life looks completely without structure. It looks like we get this water-down version of the A&M experience that is lacking in the rich understanding about what it is to be an Aggie or something. And to you it must look like that, but to EVERYONE else that watered down version is the barely digestible Aggie message to the masses.

I would have thought that being on the Rant would have driven this home, but even in the "traditional" SEC we outnumber everyone on traditions by a large amount. Almost every fanbase has something, and some like Auburn have a pretty decent amount. But our water-down non-reg experiance blows away that and everything else.

I think going forward we need to put this watered-down (which really means more palatable to a general audience) non-reg experience on the pedestal and point to the corps as the keepers and founders of those traditions-but not the sole owners.

If I was a 1960's or 70's corps-person I would want to cry every time I went to Kyle. 30,000 kids doing ANYTHING together so synchronized this side of people lighting joints at a concert is amazing. The legacy of all those college aged kids, year after year, wanted to go to Kyle and practice synchronized yells on the primary social night is the real innovation that is not produced elsewhere. We have an engine for student and eventually alum participation that even programs like Bama would be envious of. But we need to recognize that is in the non-reg sphere, even if it started and is supported by the corps.

What we need to do is stop saying A&M is too hard to explain because we refuse to water it down. We need to cherry pick the best parts of the experience, and maybe the prettiest girls in the seats, and put them where they are most visible to the general public. That naturally leads to a less corps-focused brand than the University has ever had. And we are almost there, as long as we keep marching forward on Cook's path and don't allow our internal mind police to lock away any concept as sacred.

I can't, I am out of words tmc.

Well except to wish you a good morrow sir!