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re: The reason why recruiting is dominated by the south.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 8:14 am to polydorr
Posted on 5/6/14 at 8:14 am to polydorr
quote:Because those schools outside of the south started allowing black players on their team way before the south did. The southern schools caught up to them in the 80s and passed most of them in the 90s and are now crushing them the past decade of so.
The real question: since the racial demographics haven't exactly changed much for, I don't know, over a hundred years, why is the SEC just now (last 10 years) building a dynasty in recruiting?
Posted on 5/6/14 at 8:20 am to jvilletiger25
Why is the SEC just now dominating recruiting?
That is a question that has many answers. Some of them are as follows : the meteoric rise of football's popularity, there are far more jobs / schollies available in the NFL, baseball has become an elitist sport (or maybe just plain racist), the camp circuits, and he rise of private schools in the south.
I don't have a ton of numbers or research but an opinion.
Football is by far the most popular sport in America. It is not even close. I read somewhere yesterday that the NFL had 31 of the 32 highest rated network shows last year. When the new TV contract kicks in, the estimated value will go up from 4 billion a year to 5. Kids are not dreaming of playing second base for the Cubs anymore.
There are lots of players on NFL rosters. It is a dream that doesn't sound that crazy. And there are more scholarships available in college for this sport than any other. Baseball gets what? 14? 85 for football.
Baseball is an elitist / racist sport. It is almost like swimming or golf or whatever. If u want to make it as a baseball player, u have to play travel ball. This is where the college recruiters are. They want to see u do this at an early age as well. That means $, either raised or given by parents. A poor kid from the ghetto (no matter the color of your skin) does not have the means to do this. Even if they are good at raising funds, they don't live in neighborhoods that can afford to give either. And the time required to do all this crap is ridiculous. This pushes more kids to football.
This is related to travel ball. 7on7 has become a way to keep kids involved in football all year long. This helps recruiters see players against better competition. I don't know the structure very well but, as far as I know, it is sponsored much more heavily than the baseball travel world. This paragraph is weak and I should probably delete it but whatever.
Up north, a football player has a higher percentage of hitting his ceiling because of private schools. The best athletes are black and / or poor. Most of the black people up north are still living in major cities. Many or most white people living in major cities send their kids to private school. Private schools can recruit. An awesome poor, black kid gets recruited at a relatively young age to play ball. They get a better education than they normally would and get exposed to a different world other than their own. I don't have the numbers to back this up, but this model is growing in the south. I know that Madison Academy recruits all kinds of players because they want to win football games. My friends in Nashville also tell me of the rise of this practice in their area.
I know most won't read and I know most that do will get angry. I, for one, would love to read a study done about this subject.
That is a question that has many answers. Some of them are as follows : the meteoric rise of football's popularity, there are far more jobs / schollies available in the NFL, baseball has become an elitist sport (or maybe just plain racist), the camp circuits, and he rise of private schools in the south.
I don't have a ton of numbers or research but an opinion.
Football is by far the most popular sport in America. It is not even close. I read somewhere yesterday that the NFL had 31 of the 32 highest rated network shows last year. When the new TV contract kicks in, the estimated value will go up from 4 billion a year to 5. Kids are not dreaming of playing second base for the Cubs anymore.
There are lots of players on NFL rosters. It is a dream that doesn't sound that crazy. And there are more scholarships available in college for this sport than any other. Baseball gets what? 14? 85 for football.
Baseball is an elitist / racist sport. It is almost like swimming or golf or whatever. If u want to make it as a baseball player, u have to play travel ball. This is where the college recruiters are. They want to see u do this at an early age as well. That means $, either raised or given by parents. A poor kid from the ghetto (no matter the color of your skin) does not have the means to do this. Even if they are good at raising funds, they don't live in neighborhoods that can afford to give either. And the time required to do all this crap is ridiculous. This pushes more kids to football.
This is related to travel ball. 7on7 has become a way to keep kids involved in football all year long. This helps recruiters see players against better competition. I don't know the structure very well but, as far as I know, it is sponsored much more heavily than the baseball travel world. This paragraph is weak and I should probably delete it but whatever.
Up north, a football player has a higher percentage of hitting his ceiling because of private schools. The best athletes are black and / or poor. Most of the black people up north are still living in major cities. Many or most white people living in major cities send their kids to private school. Private schools can recruit. An awesome poor, black kid gets recruited at a relatively young age to play ball. They get a better education than they normally would and get exposed to a different world other than their own. I don't have the numbers to back this up, but this model is growing in the south. I know that Madison Academy recruits all kinds of players because they want to win football games. My friends in Nashville also tell me of the rise of this practice in their area.
I know most won't read and I know most that do will get angry. I, for one, would love to read a study done about this subject.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 8:41 am to Ol'DirtyCam
quote:
Baseball is an elitist / racist sport.
It's hard to take you seriously when you have this statement in your post.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:26 am to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
It's hard to take you seriously when you have this statement in your post.
That's all that was hard to take seriously about that post?
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:35 am to NYCAuburn
quote:Well, I stopped taking it seriously after that
That's all that was hard to take seriously about that post?
Posted on 5/6/14 at 10:06 am to Ol'DirtyCam
Travel ball getting the kids schoolies/drafted over poor kids who are athletes is a myth created to prey on loser travel ball parents who sucked at sports growing up.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 10:21 am to polydorr
quote:
The real question: since the racial demographics haven't exactly changed much for, I don't know, over a hundred years, why is the SEC just now (last 10 years) building a dynasty in recruiting?
I think every answer has been covered here except one:
The broadening of exposure in college sports.
Before the OU lawsuit when only a few teams made it on TV, the system reinforced the blue bloods of the sport who were concentrated in the B1G.
But as game exposure has increased through ESPN1&2 and conference networks, now more programs can offer exposure to recruits which has allowed the SEC to keep more talent at home.
This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 10:22 am
Posted on 5/6/14 at 10:26 am to Ol'DirtyCam
quote:
Baseball is an elitist / racist sport.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 10:38 am to Ol'DirtyCam
quote:
Baseball is an elitist / racist sport. It is almost like swimming or golf or whatever. If u want to make it as a baseball player, u have to play travel ball. This is where the college recruiters are. They want to see u do this at an early age as well. That means $, either raised or given by parents. A poor kid from the ghetto (no matter the color of your skin) does not have the means to do this. Even if they are good at raising funds, they don't live in neighborhoods that can afford to give either. And the time required to do all this crap is ridiculous. This pushes more kids to football.
This misconception here is not only misguided but the truth in it is unfounded. See, as a person who coaches baseball and who has kids that play baseball the truth lies somewhere in the middle you see. Travel ball while being fairly expensive to participate also requires fund raisers and most athletic associates/parks give out scholarships and award scholarships to those deemed poor that qualify for said scholarship. So no, if a child is athletically able to play baseball and good enough to play with a travel team in 99pct of cases they will apply for help and it will be provided as well as donations taken for said players that may be financially unable to pay. I have a kid on my team this year that paid for nothing and everything he has was either donated or funded by the association itself. Now, this may not be the case everywhere but I have never seen a case of a kid not being able to play because of finances. Baseball also has sponsors/fund raiser/ tons of other methods to generate small amounts of income to help with travel and other compensations that are needed in order to participate. Of course, the club would seem elitest to most outsiders because most people don't put in enough work to be that good at the sport. I hear alot of excuses from poor people about not putting their kids in sports because they can't afford it when generally it's the parents are probably just lazy considering every association I have dealt with takes on a certain percentage of kids that can't afford to play but has parents willing enough to bring them. Then you have Rec ball, school ball, and all other types of ball that also will bring scouts if the kid is good enough. Is travel ball the best way to get noticed in baseball....certainly but it is not the be all end all you are stating here. Also, if a kid is good enough every coach in every league will want that player and will ensure the kid gets to play.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 11:26 am to Prettyboy Floyd
Thank you for clarification. I was giving a broad generalization of a topic I know very little about. I should have commented more about how it takes dedicated parents to have a child enrolled in some sort of travel ball. But that is the problem in a nutshell, how many poor kids have parents that are dedicated to keeping their kids involved in baseball? An unbelievable amount of black kids in this country grow up in a one or zero parent home. It is much easier for a poor kid, black or white, to make it in football. They can play high school football (never once playing pee wee) and get a free college education. Baseball has many more hoops to jump through to make it. How many kids play high school baseball that didn't grow up playing the game? A football player (in a very basic way) has to be bigger, stronger, faster, and meaner than the man in front of you. U can pick up the game in high school and get noticed. And let's say that u do become a great baseball player after many years of hard work perfecting a game that requires much more repetition and patience than football. Then, colleges are allowed to give out around 1/3 to 2/3 of a scholarship to u. They also don't get near as many $100 handshakes as football players.
In summary, football is a sport that is way easier to make it in than baseball. And if u do make it, the rewards are much greater for a greater number of people.
I should probably have not mentioned race as a factor in my earlier post but I believe it Bears (Bears pho Lif yo) discussion. In 2013, African-Americans made up over 76% of the NBA and over 66% of the NFL. In 2013, African-American players made up just over 8%. It used to be over 50%. (I got these numbers from a google search which lead me to an article from Afro.com)
Why? The obvious reason is baseballs popularity has taken a major hit. Also, more hoops to jump through with a smaller chance of significant reward crystallizes the choices of top athletes (black athletes). IMO, baseball is a sport that requires much more support from family. Marriage is eroding across all demographics in this country. I recently read a study which shows the erosion of this American institution (I can't remember where I found it). Marriage and family have changed dramatically in the last couple of generations. Most of the factors affecting marriage in a negative way are economical. I predict we will see a widening of the gap in the types of children playing baseball. The background of the American baseball player is WASPy as hell now, and it will likely continue to be so.
I should not have said that it was elitist or racist. I do think it is accurate to categorize baseball as a middle (and upper) class sport.
In summary, football is a sport that is way easier to make it in than baseball. And if u do make it, the rewards are much greater for a greater number of people.
I should probably have not mentioned race as a factor in my earlier post but I believe it Bears (Bears pho Lif yo) discussion. In 2013, African-Americans made up over 76% of the NBA and over 66% of the NFL. In 2013, African-American players made up just over 8%. It used to be over 50%. (I got these numbers from a google search which lead me to an article from Afro.com)
Why? The obvious reason is baseballs popularity has taken a major hit. Also, more hoops to jump through with a smaller chance of significant reward crystallizes the choices of top athletes (black athletes). IMO, baseball is a sport that requires much more support from family. Marriage is eroding across all demographics in this country. I recently read a study which shows the erosion of this American institution (I can't remember where I found it). Marriage and family have changed dramatically in the last couple of generations. Most of the factors affecting marriage in a negative way are economical. I predict we will see a widening of the gap in the types of children playing baseball. The background of the American baseball player is WASPy as hell now, and it will likely continue to be so.
I should not have said that it was elitist or racist. I do think it is accurate to categorize baseball as a middle (and upper) class sport.
This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 11:33 am
Posted on 5/6/14 at 11:55 am to Ol'DirtyCam
quote:When the hell was baseball over 50% black?
In 2013, African-American players made up just over 8%. It used to be over 50%.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 12:11 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
70s and 80s? Again I stole the info from an article. It could very well have been inaccurate, but at its height the % was certainly well over the 8% it is now. IIRC, black folks make up around 12-13% of our nation. Black folk in the south are not playing baseball as much as they used to at any level : little league, college, minors, and majors. Where are they going? Football.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 12:14 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
When the hell was baseball over 50% black?
To be fair, baseball has went more latino in past years.
I will give you this fun little stat. In our league, we have 1 black player. Now, I live in an are and community that is predominantly white with less than 5pct being black families however you would think we would have more than 1. It's not just about the area being racist but in general you don't see alot of parents bringing their kids up to play baseball.
With the rise in concussions in football you may start to see a gradual rise in the popularity of baseball. I hear many parents worried about putting their kids in football. All of our youth leagues have went to flag football recently because of this.
I am a huge fan of baseball as I believe it's the best sport but it's also the hardest of the 3 even for amazing athletes. You can take a great athlete and let him swing a bat and he would look like a fool because it's not something you can do without understanding the fundamentals. Football you take a ball you hand it to someone and you run fast so I can see why it would be more popular for kids and for people who see the future in it.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 12:22 pm to Prettyboy Floyd
I looked around. That 50% number was bull. The high was 1986 at 19%. But the 8% is accurate. Selig has ordered a commission to ask why this huge decline has happened. I don't know if they have completed or published their findings.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 12:48 pm to Ol'DirtyCam
The decline in African American percentages in baseball has more to do with the popularity of football and basketball, rather than racism or generational poverty
Posted on 5/7/14 at 7:26 pm to AmazinGrace
only way to say it is......
african americans. No other way to say it. We have more then anyone. In the old slave days, the biggest guys were bred with the biggest women. Just the way it was. WE have somewhat of a different breed down here i guess you could say.
african americans. No other way to say it. We have more then anyone. In the old slave days, the biggest guys were bred with the biggest women. Just the way it was. WE have somewhat of a different breed down here i guess you could say.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 8:07 pm to dreaux
No wonder tennessee and Kentucky suck at football

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