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re: SEC Basketball Recruiting Rankings - 247Sports
Posted on 4/25/13 at 10:41 pm to GatorsGators
Posted on 4/25/13 at 10:41 pm to GatorsGators
quote:
GatorsGators
such an LSU hater for some reason.
1
Posted on 4/25/13 at 11:20 pm to Al Bundy Bulldog
quote:
And my friends and fellow posters give me hell for saying that Ray isn't a good recruiter.
Let me guess, you didn't read the rest of this thread either did you? Small classes are cheated in 24/7's system. Nevermind that our current ranking doesn't even include Ndoye as a commit -- nor does it have a ranking for Daniel...
That class was signed in the first 5 months that Ray was on the job before he'd ever coached a single game at the dumpster fire. Let's give him a full class with a full year to recruit before we begin to form judgement.
Who am I kidding...this is Bundy I'm talking to...
Posted on 4/25/13 at 11:30 pm to Tiger Authority
quote:I'm not an LSU hater at all. They're just the overly-optimistic "we'll be competing with UK in no time" fanbase right now. I try to counter that.
such an LSU hater for some reason.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 11:30 pm to engie
Engine I'm gonna need a formula to rearrange the true order of these rankings... Can you help?
Posted on 4/25/13 at 11:47 pm to GatorsGators
quote:
I'm not an LSU hater at all. They're just the overly-optimistic "we'll be competing with UK in no time" fanbase right now. I try to counter that.
I think we will be certainly in the class of teams capable of competing for an SEC title next year. I don't presume to think we're UK, but I also don't presume to think that such a great recruiting class is going to automatically make everyone refuse to take the floor against them.
But every basketball thread wherein an LSU poster shows any form of optimism about the players returning and the current class and you're here trying to downgrade it. You make such bold assertions about our highly ranked recruiting class that could just as easily be said about any other program.
Do you want to discuss how awesome Ole Miss's post players are going to be next year?
Posted on 4/26/13 at 1:25 am to Landsharks
quote:
Engine I'm gonna need a formula to rearrange the true order of these rankings... Can you help?
Nope -- that's actually beyond my mathematics pay grade. Basketball needs to be a much more complex algorithm than their football formula to account for different "class needs" and class sizes.
I understand their parabolic football formula -- and it's the best out there in accomplishing the football ranking -- but simply applying it to basketball doesn't work effectively with the differential in class sizes introducing too much error into the equation.
Posted on 4/28/13 at 4:56 pm to Tiger Authority
quote:
I think we will be certainly in the class of teams capable of competing for an SEC title next year. I
Posted on 4/28/13 at 5:50 pm to TT9
Do you have something substantive to add that would refute my comment? Or did you get out of the SEC rant cage again in a continued attempt to lessen the quality of every other board on this site?
We lose one contributor from a team that finished 9-9 in the conference. And we are bringing in a top ten recruiting class.
In 2009, LSU won the SEC. The year prior to that, LSU went 13-18 overall and 6-10 in the conference. Point being, these things happen.
Now, did I say we were definitively winning the SEC next year? No. Did I say we were in the class of teams that would contend? Yes.
Fact of the matter is that this is, on paper, LSU's best recruiting class ever. And if the inclusion of several high profile recruits combined with returning almost the entire roster from last years team, we will be much improved.
If you would like to refute my statement, fine, but at least provide the board with the courtesy of justifying that stance. Because as it stands, you're pretty much worthless to the board.
We lose one contributor from a team that finished 9-9 in the conference. And we are bringing in a top ten recruiting class.
In 2009, LSU won the SEC. The year prior to that, LSU went 13-18 overall and 6-10 in the conference. Point being, these things happen.
Now, did I say we were definitively winning the SEC next year? No. Did I say we were in the class of teams that would contend? Yes.
Fact of the matter is that this is, on paper, LSU's best recruiting class ever. And if the inclusion of several high profile recruits combined with returning almost the entire roster from last years team, we will be much improved.
If you would like to refute my statement, fine, but at least provide the board with the courtesy of justifying that stance. Because as it stands, you're pretty much worthless to the board.
This post was edited on 4/28/13 at 5:57 pm
Posted on 4/28/13 at 6:05 pm to Tiger Authority
Yeah, your team was dogshit this past year, finished 8th in a shitty conference. Didn't even make a postseason tourney.
For you to say that Lsu can compete for an sec title next year is beyond laughable. Dumbest prediction ever!
For you to say that Lsu can compete for an sec title next year is beyond laughable. Dumbest prediction ever!
Posted on 4/28/13 at 6:12 pm to TT9
I guess the fact that I offered a specific example of a situation in which a team went from bottom dwellers to winning the conference wasn't good enough.
Is the conference going to be miraculously better overall next year? Kentucky will be talented, as usual, but will lack experience. UF will certainly contend. OM loses their frontcourt, so I expect a noticeable decline for them next year. I see Arkansas to be about the same but to be honest, I don't know what to expect from them. Alabama, IMO, will be about the same as well.
I think LSU could be the most improved team next year considering our additions. This link is a recent event that two LSU recruits played in.
LINK
Martin is referred to as a "no-brainer as a pro player" one day.
Is the conference going to be miraculously better overall next year? Kentucky will be talented, as usual, but will lack experience. UF will certainly contend. OM loses their frontcourt, so I expect a noticeable decline for them next year. I see Arkansas to be about the same but to be honest, I don't know what to expect from them. Alabama, IMO, will be about the same as well.
I think LSU could be the most improved team next year considering our additions. This link is a recent event that two LSU recruits played in.
LINK
Martin is referred to as a "no-brainer as a pro player" one day.
Posted on 4/28/13 at 6:18 pm to Tiger Authority
We will see who's correct this coming year. Those recruits haven't done anything yet. And other that JOB the rest of the current players are mediocre at best.
Posted on 4/28/13 at 6:25 pm to TT9
Anthony Hickey is one of the better point guards in the league. Stringer shot 40% from 3 last year. Coleman was productive, although undersized.
I just like the entire roster. Sure, those players aren't here yet (outside of the JUCO transfer center that's been practicing with the team since January), but how is this different from any other team with a highly ranked class coming in? I think Martin is in the class of players that will make an immediate impact based on his game and size. He can do it all and he has the frame to come in and compete physically as well, which is often something that holds a high profile recruit back.
The inclusion of one player can transform a team immediately. It did for LSU when we added Marcus Thornton to the roster and won the SEC in 2009. Glen Davis, Brandon Bass, and Tasmin Mitchell were all high profile recruits that averaged in double digits scoring and rebounded well. Martin is ten times the pro prospect at this stage as those players. If he can come in and average 10-12 points per game and another 6-7 rebounds, we'll be much improved. I'm not saying we know whether he will do that or not, but if the aforementioned players are any indication, he should meet that goal easily because he's better than them.
I just like the entire roster. Sure, those players aren't here yet (outside of the JUCO transfer center that's been practicing with the team since January), but how is this different from any other team with a highly ranked class coming in? I think Martin is in the class of players that will make an immediate impact based on his game and size. He can do it all and he has the frame to come in and compete physically as well, which is often something that holds a high profile recruit back.
The inclusion of one player can transform a team immediately. It did for LSU when we added Marcus Thornton to the roster and won the SEC in 2009. Glen Davis, Brandon Bass, and Tasmin Mitchell were all high profile recruits that averaged in double digits scoring and rebounded well. Martin is ten times the pro prospect at this stage as those players. If he can come in and average 10-12 points per game and another 6-7 rebounds, we'll be much improved. I'm not saying we know whether he will do that or not, but if the aforementioned players are any indication, he should meet that goal easily because he's better than them.
Posted on 4/28/13 at 6:32 pm to TT9
quote:
We will see who's correct this coming year. Those recruits haven't done anything yet. And other that JOB the rest of the current players are mediocre at best.
Hickey is a pretty good player, way better than mediocre. Stringer is also one of the best 3 point shooters in the conference returning.
This post was edited on 4/28/13 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 4/28/13 at 8:37 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:Hickey is a pretty good point guard, but he's a mediocre, inconsistent shooter and a shockingly bad FT shooter. Stringer is a good shooter, but he's a 5'9" (at best) SG who is nothing more than a spot-up shooter. It's a passable backcourt but not on the same planet in terms of talent as UK and UF, or even UT and Alabama.
Hickey is a pretty good player, way better than mediocre. Stringer is also one of the best 3 point shooters in the conference returning.
Your frontcourt should be good. JOB was a beast in the second half of the year and Martin should be an instant-impact freshman (although one-and-done is a bit of a stretch). Mickey is a great talent, but he's not on Martin's level and is a bit of a tweener at this point. We'll see what Odo is like... It's impossible to predict what JUCO bigs will do, although I doubt he'll be any worse than Del Piero.
Do I think that LSU has the potential to compete with UK and UF next season if everything goes perfectly for LSU? Of course. Martin would have to be a borderline one-and-done, Odo would have to be a defensive presence without being a black hole, and one of Quarterman/Mickey/Morgan/Hammink would have to develop into an effective wing player. There are a lot of ifs whenever you're dealing with this many freshman, so I'm more inclined to think that UK (simply because of the ridiculous talent level), UF (mix of talent and experience), and UT (see UF) are going to be fighting out at the top of the SEC while LSU, Alabama, Vanderbilt, Missouri, and maybe Ole Miss and Arkansas will be fighting it out for two to four more NCAA bids, depending on how well each team does OOC.
I've been "anti-LSU" because I think the expectations are a bit too high, not because I have some weird vendetta with LSU's basketball program.
yeah, I know, tl;dr
This post was edited on 4/28/13 at 8:38 pm
Posted on 4/28/13 at 9:00 pm to GatorsGators
quote:
mediocre, inconsistent shooter
Wouldn't disagree, but he makes a lot of clutch points. Which is a huge plus. Most PGs arent good shooters, so doesnt make him a mediocre player overall. 38.6% isn't terrible by any means for a PG.
quote:
shockingly bad FT shooter.
He is, but he never goes to the FT line so it's not much of a negative. If he was shooting 6-8 FTs a game it would suck, but he averaged 1.6 FTs a game last season. He plays smart and knows how to avoid contact on his drives while still getting the bucket. So it could be a big disadvantage, but it's a really minor one instead.
Hickey also is likely the best defensive PG in the league. He shut down so many opposing PGs this year.
quote:
Stringer is a good shooter, but he's a 5'9" (at best) SG who is nothing more than a spot-up shooter.
A very good spot up shooter. 40+% from 3 is great and he has underrated defense. Sure, sometimes a guy 5'9 will struggle with a 6'3+ guy...but he really plays TOUGH defense for such a small guy. Like I said though, he will get overpowered at times, but still wont relent playing annoying defense on his guy.
quote:
It's a passable backcourt but not on the same planet in terms of talent as UK and UF, or even UT and Alabama.
Wouldn't disagree, but it's a very experienced back court now with experienced depth returning in Morgan who could make the biggest leap of anyone on the team for next season and replacing an out of control guy in Collins with a very talented TALL guy in Quarterman. Unlike last year, now we can go tall in the back court with Quarterman and Morgan and be effective this time around. When Collins was in there running point we either turned it over or got off a terrible shot more times than not.
quote:
Your frontcourt should be good. JOB was a beast in the second half of the year and Martin should be an instant-impact freshman (although one-and-done is a bit of a stretch). Mickey is a great talent, but he's not on Martin's level and is a bit of a tweener at this point. We'll see what Odo is like... It's impossible to predict what JUCO bigs will do, although I doubt he'll be any worse than Del Piero.
Tweeners are great things to have in college, it's not like a 6'7 guy gets exposed at PF in college like they would in the NBA. The greatest thing about Martin and Mickey is both bring big time athleticism to the table and the ability to play both SF and PF. Martin could even play some C in college in spots, he's 6'9, 235-240ish right now. Odo should be exactly what he was in JUCO, a rebounder and shot blocker. Coty Clarke for Arkansas is a similar player who was right behind Odo in JUCO in rebounding and he was solid for Arkansas this year. We know Odo wont be an all-star, but that's not the reason we got him. He is not going to be asked to score because he simply wont need to when we have so many other scorers on the team.
By far the biggest difference on the team is depth for next year with more quality starters. No more starting a walk on center. No more Collins or Courtney playing significant SEC minutes in spots. Only SEC quality players will get SEC minutes now.
quote:
I've been "anti-LSU" because I think the expectations are a bit too high, not because I have some weird vendetta with LSU's basketball program.
The realistic expectations are making the NCAAT and seeing what happens from there. I think that's perfectly acceptable considering who we return (almost everyone, sans Carmouche) and who we're adding (6 new players for more depth and a couple starters).
Kind of like that final four team in 2006, no one thought we'd be that good. Sure, make the NCAAT, maybe win a game or two if really lucky, but they went really far. This team has that kind of talent they had, just need the pieces to fall into place and obviously some luck involved in runs like that (last second buzzer beater in 1 game).
Posted on 4/28/13 at 9:03 pm to GatorsGators
LSU will be very solid. I see them as being very similar to Tennessee, very good frontcourt, probably better point guard play too. The big difference is that LSU is badly missing a wing who can create his own shot and score from the perimeter like a Jordan McRae or even a Robert Hubbs. Where do they go against teams who pack it in against JOB and Martin? Let their pair of 5'9 guards chuck it from the perimeter?
Posted on 4/28/13 at 9:08 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:You're baiting me...
Hickey also is likely the best defensive PG in the league. He shut down so many opposing PGs this year.
I don't disagree with anything else that you're saying, although most 6'7ish PFs in college are either tremendously strong (Holloway, Maymon) or have a highly-developed perimeter game (Powell). Mickey isn't there yet.
Again, if everything goes perfectly for LSU next season, then they could compete with UK and UF. I just doubt that everything is going to go perfectly.
This post was edited on 4/28/13 at 9:25 pm
Posted on 4/28/13 at 9:25 pm to volfan30
quote:
Where do they go against teams who pack it in against JOB and Martin?
That will be very hard to do, and Martin has a great outside game...and is 6'9. He'll start at SF more than likely.
Likely Odo/JOB III/Martin are the starting front court. That's 6'10, 6'9, 6'9. Not sure anyone in the league next year will be to cover all 3 guys effectively at once except maybe UK or someone else with a tall strong SF.
quote:
Let their pair of 5'9 guards chuck it from the perimeter?
Stringer is 5'9, Hickey is 5'11. Both averaged double digits scoring this year, so they are great options to go to, sure.
Posted on 4/28/13 at 9:27 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:If the recent comparisons to Jamychal Green and Tobias Harris are accurate, then there's no chance that Martin starts at SF.
That will be very hard to do, and Martin has a great outside game...and is 6'9. He'll start at SF more than likely.
I think Hickey/Stringer/Morgan/Martin/O'Bryant is the most likely starting five.
Posted on 4/28/13 at 9:28 pm to thunderbird1100
Martin has been compared to Tobias Harris by most. There is no chance he is playing SF in college. No way can he guard the position.
ETA: Gators beat me to it.
ETA: Gators beat me to it.
This post was edited on 4/28/13 at 9:29 pm
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