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re: Looks like UGA is gonna steal a Florida commit...
Posted on 9/13/23 at 7:57 am to finchmeister08
Posted on 9/13/23 at 7:57 am to finchmeister08
quote:
Step 5 - Media says, "Wow, look at all of those stars UGA has compared to FLA, TENN, BAMA, OSU, MIAMI, etc. They are really doing something right down there in Athens."
Step 6 - UGA markets all of this as a plus to get even more highly sought after players.
There is a lot about this that is illogical. First, OSU and Bama typically have higher ranked classes than UGA. Second, this might be valid as to FLA and TENN IF UGA had not been whipping (not just beating) those teams since Kirby's first year (with one exception). The proof is always in the pudding.
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Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:51 am to Crowknowsbest
quote:
If you were a recruiting analyst, would you put more trust in the evaluation of the current UF staff, or UGA?
if i was a recruiting analyst, i would've been hired based on my own evals. not the evals others make.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 11:47 am to finchmeister08
"development"?
Well, lets see...Jordan Davis was a 3 star. Bennett was a 2 star and McConkey was a ZERO star! Two of them are playing in the pros and McConkey will be after this season. So, uh...yeah, someone on that staff has been doing some pretty good development, wouldn't ya think?
Well, lets see...Jordan Davis was a 3 star. Bennett was a 2 star and McConkey was a ZERO star! Two of them are playing in the pros and McConkey will be after this season. So, uh...yeah, someone on that staff has been doing some pretty good development, wouldn't ya think?
Posted on 9/13/23 at 12:01 pm to Darindawg
again... development isn't the argument.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 12:09 pm to Darindawg
Yeah guys, take those 3 examples and shove it 
Posted on 9/13/23 at 3:00 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Jimbo just isn't a good coach, the players themselves from those classes have been pretty good for the most part.
Based on what? They aren't performing. Maybe it is because they are not being developed. Maybe it is because they aren't working hard enough. Maybe it is because they were not ranked properly.
quote:But there are so many more thing s that go into a football player. Who would have thought Trindon Holliday would hit in the NFL? He is 5'5".
They are getting some guys wrong by their own metrics because they apparently can't read a scale or a tape measure, or time a 40 correctly
Maurice Jones-Drew was 5'7". Or Anquan Boldin ran a 4.7 40 yard dash. Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.63. Not horrible but certainly not elite.
It is so much more than measurables that go into it. Nobody can see into a guys heart, or his work ethic.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 3:01 pm to finchmeister08
quote:
again... development isn't the argument.
Maybe not, but where was the Georgia bump for those guys?
Posted on 9/13/23 at 3:02 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Yeah guys, take those 3 examples and shove it
There are a lot more examples that have played (and just guessing are currently playing for Georgia) so yes. You can find one or two players that might have gotten a bump, and we can find just as many that hit it big that did not get a bump at all.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 3:06 pm to finchmeister08
quote:
if i was a recruiting analyst, i would've been hired based on my own evals. not the evals others make.
There are 900.000 kids playing high school football in a given year. You evaluating all of them?
Nobody can or will. But a well placed high school coach contacts a college coach and they take a look at him...gets a scholly offer and that brings the attention to the recruiting services and all of a sudden they get ranked and start moving up.
You would be better served if you found kids that got a big bump and did not pan out.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 5:37 pm to DawgsLife
THANK YOU! I think some rival fans on here are in some serious denial.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 6:39 pm to DawgsLife
I’m not scouting them, 100% true. But I’m also not claiming that I am or profiting from it
Posted on 9/14/23 at 12:14 am to DawgsLife
quote:
There are 900.000 kids playing high school football in a given year. You evaluating all of them?
it is my understanding that these kids are evaluated by these sites at the camps they attend at the local universities, i.e.:
Nick Saban Football Camp (Alabama)
Friday Night Lights (Florida - they also have specific position group camps that lead up to FNL)
Geaux Tigers Camps & Clinics (LSU)
Kirby Smart Football Camp (Georgia)
there's no way every one of those 900,000 high schoolers are going to those camps. only the ones that know they have a shot of landing a scholly are going to these camps and they go to multiples of them to get eyes on them. that's part of the reason why some of the kids on these sites don't have ratings at all.
Posted on 9/14/23 at 1:36 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
I’m not scouting them, 100% true. But I’m also not claiming that I am or profiting from it
You missed my point. With 900,000 kids playing football at the high school level NOBODY is scouting all of them.
College coaches build relationships with high school coaches for a lot of reasons. One being that if they have a kid who is a grinder and and has been overlooked, the high school coach has access to a college coach and gives them a call.
The college coach takes a look at some film of the kid and if it looks good they maybe send somebody to a game or two, then offers.
Seriously. Y'all don't think if a low ranked player gets and offer from a Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, OSU or somebody that the services don't take a closer look?
Posted on 9/14/23 at 1:39 pm to finchmeister08
quote:
it is my understanding that these kids are evaluated by these sites at the camps they attend at the local universities, i.e.:
I get it. But some top players don't go to camps. I may be wrong, but it seems like Dylan Raiola or somebody like that did not go to camps. (I wish I could remember who it was)
But to your point...yes. That is one way the services scout.
quote:That's kind of my point. Some kids don't camp, then develop over the summer and a coach makes a phone call and so on and so on....
there's no way every one of those 900,000 high schoolers are going to those camps. only the ones that know they have a shot of landing a scholly are going to these camps and they go to multiples of them to get eyes on them. that's part of the reason why some of the kids on these sites don't have ratings at all.
Honestly....even if it were just a matter of a player commits to Georgia (or Alabama, or Ohio State) and gets a bump. Why does it get you fired up?
Posted on 9/14/23 at 3:58 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
even if it were just a matter of a player commits to Georgia (or Alabama, or Ohio State) and gets a bump. Why does it get you fired up?
You're still not getting the argument.
At least personally I don't care that they do get a bump. I think they probably should get one just based on offers from certain coaches or staffs alone. I think if a WR is being recruited by our staff, they are probably pretty dang good.
But for one, these sites are claiming they evaluate all of the players they give a rating to. We aren't usually talking about an unrated guy committing then getting bumped, its a 3 star or low 4 star (so the implication is that they were scouted and rated) suddenly becoming a top 100 player.
And then you add in the flip angle. Ok, a guy flips to Bama and gets a huge bump. Did the sites just not evaluate him well before? Do they not evaluate players committed to certain teams as much or as thoroughly?
The recruiting rankings matter because it impacts program perception, and these guys are clearly just using evals from certain staffs over other staffs or even their own eyes.
An SEC program offering an unranked guy and then a site looking into him more themselves is totally different from what is actually happening. And it benefits a few teams while actively hurting the rest.
Posted on 9/14/23 at 8:35 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
But for one, these sites are claiming they evaluate all of the players they give a rating to.
And every sane person knows they can't possibly look at and rank 900,000 kids. I mean, do you honestly believe anyone thinks they are evaluating every player?
quote:Ok. And why does it bother you? I mean seriously. What difference does it make? I'm not seeing the great harm that somebody gets upset because some random player gets a bump because he commits to some school. It absolutely affects nobody.
its a 3 star or low 4 star (so the implication is that they were scouted and rated) suddenly becoming a top 100 player.
quote:Again what difference does it make? The coaches aren't recruiting according to the rankings. The only people paying any attention to those rankings are the fans. If some fan believes that they are evaluating 900,000 kids and paying to look at rankings, then they get what they deserve.
And then you add in the flip angle. Ok, a guy flips to Bama and gets a huge bump. Did the sites just not evaluate him well before? Do they not evaluate players committed to certain teams as much or as thoroughly?
quote:Which impacts a programs perception more? Recruit rankings or performance on the field?
The recruiting rankings matter because it impacts program perception, and these guys are clearly just using evals from certain staffs over other staffs or even their own eyes.
I remember when everybody was getting so upset over the perceived Bama bump. And yes, some of their players got a bump. And a lot of their players dropped in rankings. Every team has them.
Nobody wants to talk about Dyan Raiola that dropped in rankings on 2-3 of the sites, though. just the one or two that went up.
quote:Again...I can see no tangible benefit. You say it helps perception? Ok. How does that tangibly help a school and hurt others?
And it benefits a few teams while actively hurting the rest.
Posted on 9/15/23 at 7:27 am to DawgsLife
quote:
And every sane person knows they can't possibly look at and rank 900,000 kids. I mean, do you honestly believe anyone thinks they are evaluating every player?
They aren't even claiming that they are ranking every player, the vast majority of players in the country don't have a ranking at all.
ON3 current has 8 kickers ranked. Every team in the country has a kicker, and there are some in these academies overseas as well.
They only have 121 players ranked as an Athlete.
QB? Only 111 ranked.
The star rating implies they ranked the player. I specifically said I have no problem with an unranked player they just discovered after someone offers getting a bump.
quote:
Ok. And why does it bother you? I mean seriously. What difference does it make? I'm not seeing the great harm that somebody gets upset because some random player gets a bump because he commits to some school. It absolutely affects nobody.
So now it went from "its not happening" to "why do you care?"
I don't think pointing out that these sites are heavily flawed is being upset, its pointing out that they are heavily flawed. If I say "tax rates are too high", am I automatically upset about it? I think they should change, I don't agree with them, and that doesn't mean I'm crying into my couch about it.
quote:
Which impacts a programs perception more? Recruit rankings or performance on the field?
So because one thing impacts something more, the other thing just doesn't matter? Thats dumb.
quote:
Nobody wants to talk about Dyan Raiola that dropped in rankings on 2-3 of the sites, though. just the one or two that went up.
He was pretty clearly at least a bit overrated. He is on essentially a superteam in a weak division now and isn't lighting it up. Multiple QBs were better on the camp circuit. Didn't light it up in Arizona, which isn't exactly a HS football hub.
quote:
I can see no tangible benefit
Your coach does.
Posted on 9/15/23 at 8:34 am to VolSquatch
quote:
They aren't even claiming that they are ranking every player, the vast majority of players in the country don't have a ranking at all.
You are right. My 900,000 figure accounts for all high school players and typically they do one or two classes at a time.
But my main point is that there are thousands of schools all over the country whose kids never get looked at. Smaller schools whose kids don't go to a camp, but could play. McConkey would probably be a decent example of this, but I think he was ranked as a two star.
But you made my point for me, didn't you? A lot of kids go overlooked and then a school becomes aware so they offer a scholarship, then the services take note and rank them.....or bump them up?
quote:I never said it didn't happen. My stance pretty much has been, "What difference does it make?" Why does it drive y'all crazy?
So now it went from "its not happening" to "why do you care?"
quote:And yet when he committed to Georgia he went down in some of the services rankings. I thought your point was that when a kid gets offered to Georgia he gets a bump?
He was pretty clearly at least a bit overrated. He is on essentially a superteam in a weak division now and isn't lighting it up. Multiple QBs were better on the camp circuit. Didn't light it up in Arizona, which isn't exactly a HS football hub.
quote:Really? Show me where he cares. And you can't seem to tell me how there is a tangible benefit.
I can see no tangible benefit
Your coach does.
This is the second time you have proven my point for me. Again. Why does it matter? If it helps perception, how does that help a school and hurt other schools? (That's what you argued, right?)
The only reason y'all care is because you want your recruit ranking to be ranked higher or ours to be lower, and I keep saying where they are ranked does not make a bit of difference. Prove me wrong.
Posted on 9/15/23 at 8:54 am to DawgsLife
quote:
You are right.
This is really all you had to say. Feel free to edit and delete the rest.
quote:
But you made my point for me, didn't you? A lot of kids go overlooked and then a school becomes aware so they offer a scholarship, then the services take note and rank them.....or bump them up?
Thats..... what I said
The problem, since you can't understand, is when X recruiting service ranks a kid a 3 star or low 4 star, implying they evaluated the kid. Follow me?
THEN after already having made an evaluation, often while no games are being played in the middle of the summer and sometimes the player not even going to camps, the ranking wildly shifts.
If you're evaluating on measurables and tape and not just going off what Brian Hartline says about a receiver or Kirby says about a DB, why would there be a huge swing in a player's rank just because a certain school took an interest?
If they were open about it and said "we rank guys ourselves initially, but ultimately we are going to defer to the coaches who do this professionally" there wouldn't be an issue.
quote:
I thought your point was that when a kid gets offered to Georgia he gets a bump?
So this is why you're "so upset"
Its not my point, you just can't read.
quote:
Show me where he cares
You don't think your coach cares about the perception of his program?
The tangible benefit is your recruiting classes. Players want to play with other good players. Some guy being a 3 star rankings wise but being a 5 star on the field helps me in 2-3 years getting other guys, sure, but its not going to help me immediately. Recruits say all the time that they want to play with other players, and "momentum" in recruiting is very real.
You think all of those 9 or however many guys that committed to Florida in one weekend were all planned? No, they weren't. 3 or 4 were I believe, and the rest came along specifically because they saw they were going to get to play with those guys and because of the momentum.
I'm really trying to have a good discussion here, but you're really having trouble with some basic reading comprehension.
Posted on 9/15/23 at 9:16 am to VolSquatch
quote:All you have to do is go back and see that is the point I have been making. It's not some nefarious system to make certain schools look better.
Thats..... what I said
quote:
So this is why you're "so upset"
Its not my point, you just can't read.
Shall I copy and paste where you and Finchmeister have been saying this exact thing?
quote:Not as it concerns a recruiting class. I mean he went after several players that were ranked 2* and below, sooooo....
You don't think your coach cares about the perception of his program?
quote:OH! So your point is Jordan Davis, Stetson Bennett, McConkey, Tyrique McGee, William Poole, Monty Rice, John Fitzpatrick, Chris Smith and on and on .....most were 3* or below. I wonder why Kirby did not care about perceptions when he signed them. All of them got extensive playing time and I THINK all are in the NFL right now.
The tangible benefit is your recruiting classes. Players want to play with other good players. Some guy being a 3 star rankings wise but being a 5 star on the field helps me in 2-3 years getting other guys, sure, but its not going to help me immediately. Recruits say all the time that they want to play with other players, and "momentum" in recruiting is very real.
What happened to the bump?
Again. Y'all are bent out of shape over nothing.
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