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Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:11 pm to Cdawg
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Which he did against ole miss on their final drive.
They started on our 39.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:13 pm to Roger Klarvin
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Stupid attempt to try and prop up Ole Miss.
This is what happens when Ole Miss goes 6-6 and wins their Super Bowl... gonna be a long off season.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:15 pm to GalvoAg
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This is what happens when Ole Miss goes 6-6 and wins their Super Bowl... gonna be a long off season.
The irony.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:34 pm to inelishaitrust
Actually the best way to contain JFF is to catch him in his first few games as a college player before he masters the offense. He had a lot of trouble recognizing the defenses that were thrown at him earlier on and made mistakes. Against Ole Miss and LSU it cost him turnovers and sacks. Against UF he tried to run when nothing was there. As the season went on though, really starting with Miss State, he started to work within the offense better and take what was given to him.
If you look at the MIzzou game for instance, they did exactly what you are professing. They stayed in containment and tried to force JFF to throw and beat them with his arm. Then they looked up in the 2nd quarter and were down 42-0 because Johnny just kept running around in the backfield freezing the LB's that thought he would run until he could hit a wide open receiver. Then when they started to adjust to that he would just bust out a big run on them.
That's what should scare the crap out of you. You can't stop the A&M offense when it is run properly because something is always open by scheme and the OL and JFF's legs make it even more deadly. You have to hope JFF makes bad reads and mistakes. Those bad reads and mistakes are just getting fewer and fewer each game. In his last 5 games 60% of the drives he started resulted in TD's and over 80% resulted in a scoring opportunity or end of half/game.
If you look at the MIzzou game for instance, they did exactly what you are professing. They stayed in containment and tried to force JFF to throw and beat them with his arm. Then they looked up in the 2nd quarter and were down 42-0 because Johnny just kept running around in the backfield freezing the LB's that thought he would run until he could hit a wide open receiver. Then when they started to adjust to that he would just bust out a big run on them.
That's what should scare the crap out of you. You can't stop the A&M offense when it is run properly because something is always open by scheme and the OL and JFF's legs make it even more deadly. You have to hope JFF makes bad reads and mistakes. Those bad reads and mistakes are just getting fewer and fewer each game. In his last 5 games 60% of the drives he started resulted in TD's and over 80% resulted in a scoring opportunity or end of half/game.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:37 pm to inelishaitrust
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quote:
This is what happens when Ole Miss goes 6-6 and wins their Super Bowl... gonna be a long off season.
The irony.
I think you might need another look at what the word "irony" means.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:39 pm to aggressor
I disagree. I don't subscribe to the hubris that the air raid is infallible. It can be defeated if used exclusively.
I have spoken my peace. I have told everyone how to beat A&M. Only a few teams will because of personnel.
I have spoken my peace. I have told everyone how to beat A&M. Only a few teams will because of personnel.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:42 pm to inelishaitrust
Your only hope in beating Johnny Football is playing mind games with the kicker. If A&M makes all its field goals and the majority of its extra points... Johnny Football is unbeatable.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:42 pm to aggressor
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You can't stop the A&M offense when it is run properly because something is always open by scheme and the OL and JFF's legs make it even more deadly.
You can't honestly be serious.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:44 pm to aggressor
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You can't stop the A&M offense when it is run properly
Dude...A&M is a good team. It will take a good team to beat them and it is not assured.
But, let's stop the hyperbole. A&M jumped out to a 20 point lead on Bama. After that, Bama outscored them handily. Now, A&M won the game. Congrats. But, let's not lose sight of how close that was to going the other way. I'll bet you'd not want to give Bama another shot at 1st and goal at the 6 for the win...ever again!
Manziel is an AWESOME player and I will enjoy watching him play for a few years. But, let's not act as though the SEC has never seen excellent teams. AND, it is actually pretty rare for even the excellent ones to go undefeated.
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Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:44 pm to KaiserSoze99
Damn, deez aggiez is insufferable. Good job on having a Heisman winner and a good season. Good job. Damn Manziel got the whole fanbase t-bagged
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:46 pm to inelishaitrust
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The teams who were able to contain him on the ground this year (Florida 17-60, LSU 17-27, Ole Miss 20-129, Alabama 18-92)
Lulz.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:47 pm to Roger Klarvin
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Ole Miss and Bama didnt contain him on the ground.
Stupid attempt to try and prop up Ole Miss
We love moral victories!!! woohoo
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:47 pm to sorantable
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Damn, deez aggiez is insufferable.
Standard comment in a Manziel thread started by a non-A&M poster.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:54 pm to inelishaitrust
Yup. And the way you contain JFF on the ground is with fast and mobile DEs.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:56 pm to KaiserSoze99
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Only a few teams will because of personnel.
This is exactly right. I have said that A&M's offense is better than Oregon's has been in recent years because of balance and personnel up front. I don't know that Oregon has even had one NFL caliber O-linemen during their run, much less 2 first rounders. A&M can run the ball in the interior well because they have the personnel, recruited by Sherm, to run the NFL pro-style offense and take some of the pressure off of JM. You must have elite D-linemen that are big enough to stop that plus have the speed and length to chase him down when he does try to break the pocket.
You must have linebackers with speed and size to do the same, and elite DB talent to stay with wide receivers much longer than they normally would.
Then you have the tempo to deal with.
I still can't believe that Kingsbury did not force feed the ball to the RB's more when we (LSU) went to that 3 down linemen set. I think he learned a lesson that game.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:56 pm to sorantable
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t-bagged
a-hole
Posted on 12/11/12 at 3:27 pm to Mohican
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This is exactly right. I have said that A&M's offense is better than Oregon's has been in recent years because of balance and personnel up front. I don't know that Oregon has even had one NFL caliber O-linemen during their run, much less 2 first rounders. A&M can run the ball in the interior well because they have the personnel, recruited by Sherm, to run the NFL pro-style offense and take some of the pressure off of JM. You must have elite D-linemen that are big enough to stop that plus have the speed and length to chase him down when he does try to break the pocket.
You must have linebackers with speed and size to do the same, and elite DB talent to stay with wide receivers much longer than they normally would.
Then you have the tempo to deal with.
I still can't believe that Kingsbury did not force feed the ball to the RB's more when we (LSU) went to that 3 down linemen set. I think he learned a lesson that game.
THIS
It's not really scheme, it's personnel. LSU has it. Bama has it but not as much as LSU. Others. Not so much.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 3:51 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot
My argument isn't that A&M has the greatest offense ever, my argument is that when it is run PROPERLY it is basically impossible to stop. If it is run properly there is always something open.
The OP's point is that you can force Manziel to beat you with his arm successfully. The problem with this is by definition you are stacking the box with 4 or 5 guys at the line who aren't rushing him to create lanes and a couple others who are spying and protecting against the run. That means you have either 1 on 1 coverage with every receiver or no more than 2 safeties helping, so a 4 on 6 situation essentially in terms of receivers to DB's. That's great, only not if you have a QB that can run around for 7 or 8 seconds or longer because of his legs and OL and the lack of aggression coming after him for fear of him running. If you have 4 quality WR's spread all over the field for 8 seconds with 6 guys covering them someone is going to get wide open. Thus the key is if JFF sees it and runs the offense properly.
It's different than an Air Raid. An Air Raid is about getting rid of the ball quickly for the most part and hitting open receivers who spread the field. An Air Raid can be stopped with quality DL and DB's, especially in the Red Zone when the field shrinks. There is no defense though that can consistently cover quality receivers for more than 7 seconds, esp if you have a QB that can recognize the open man and deliver the ball.
Thus my point isn't that A&M's offense is unstoppable but rather it is unstoppable when run PROPERLY. JFF is getting better and better at doing so as evidenced by his 80% rate of scoring opportunities in drives in the last 5 games. He's not there yet. Also the obvious point is that against a better quality defense with better quality talent it is harder to run the offense properly because the margin for error is much smaller.
So the best way to stop A&M is to try to confuse JFF into making mistakes, not to try to force him to pass or run.
The OP's point is that you can force Manziel to beat you with his arm successfully. The problem with this is by definition you are stacking the box with 4 or 5 guys at the line who aren't rushing him to create lanes and a couple others who are spying and protecting against the run. That means you have either 1 on 1 coverage with every receiver or no more than 2 safeties helping, so a 4 on 6 situation essentially in terms of receivers to DB's. That's great, only not if you have a QB that can run around for 7 or 8 seconds or longer because of his legs and OL and the lack of aggression coming after him for fear of him running. If you have 4 quality WR's spread all over the field for 8 seconds with 6 guys covering them someone is going to get wide open. Thus the key is if JFF sees it and runs the offense properly.
It's different than an Air Raid. An Air Raid is about getting rid of the ball quickly for the most part and hitting open receivers who spread the field. An Air Raid can be stopped with quality DL and DB's, especially in the Red Zone when the field shrinks. There is no defense though that can consistently cover quality receivers for more than 7 seconds, esp if you have a QB that can recognize the open man and deliver the ball.
Thus my point isn't that A&M's offense is unstoppable but rather it is unstoppable when run PROPERLY. JFF is getting better and better at doing so as evidenced by his 80% rate of scoring opportunities in drives in the last 5 games. He's not there yet. Also the obvious point is that against a better quality defense with better quality talent it is harder to run the offense properly because the margin for error is much smaller.
So the best way to stop A&M is to try to confuse JFF into making mistakes, not to try to force him to pass or run.
Posted on 12/11/12 at 4:20 pm to inelishaitrust
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But we did hold Johnny down well enough to win
No. SIX TURNOVERS allowed you guys to almost win. Historically, three TOs have generally proven fatal to A&M's win chances, so I don't see much for you to brag about there.
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