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re: Where my Bama Boys at?
Posted on 9/6/22 at 1:17 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Posted on 9/6/22 at 1:17 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
We showed some signs of life that year (Arkansas, Tennessee)
If I wasn’t sure already, Arkansas was the game that had me 100% on board with the direction of the program. I vividly remember not thinking, but KNOWING that was a game where players would have folded at the end under Shula.
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Posted on 9/6/22 at 1:59 pm to Gravy_Train
quote:
The more interesting question I have about the early days of Saban is who he had blackmailed from the SEC and NCAA offices to start dropping bags for annual recruiting riches? He got those classes rolling at a time when the NCAA still thought they had nuts and were laying infractions for secondary recruiting violations.. meanwhile, Nick was playing with greyshirt scholarships.
quote:
Only those naive and new to college football would believe he runs a clean program and that it didn't take a handful of shrewd boosters, bag dropping, 7-on-7 programs and recruiting services to get that machine rolling.
I don’t idolize Saban or anything and he’s not above criticism. You make some fine points about his outsized role in the direction of the game. But to be clear, you’re making some very serious allegations of his direct involvement in some really elaborate payment schemes to get uncommitted players on campus. No one would dispute that players on campus occasionally get/got benefits from boosters, but you’re taking your claims many steps further than that with your Saban-directed cheating scheme angle. So I just want to point out that you can call people naive all you want, but I haven’t seen even our worst rivals make the claims you’re making here, in earnest. And we’ve never seen any leaks or one shred of evidence suggesting the 1980’s SMU level scheme that you’re suggesting here. Have you ever seen Saban talk about his obsessive, year-long, laser-like focus on all details recruiting above basically all other aspects of the program? Maybe you’re actually the naive one?
This post was edited on 9/6/22 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:19 pm to thatthang
You can be laser-focused and execute to the best of abilities on everything from dorm room discipline to nutrition, while, at the same time, benefit from a few "shrewd bent rules" or ulterior advantages *outside the program* to get recruiting results within a new-ish venue.
Those aren't benefits Saban himself may have directed, but that others involved in the program helped jump-start recruiting success in Tuscaloosa a bit faster than what other coaches might have been challenged with at the time. And yes, rivals have been doing it all along. No, it's not SMU, but it's also not above-board.
There's just enough smoke from 2007-2012 that I can't forget and won't give grace for how UA's success rapidly jump started:
-Trent Richardson
-Tom Albetar
-Baron Flenory
-Charles Robinson's smoke (who ended up writing virtually nothing)
-Children's First Foundation, McGregor, Namath, Drummond
-Saban's 2009-2012 classes overcommitted on the scholarship cap while keeping 12-14 around the locker room on medical greyshirts
Those aren't benefits Saban himself may have directed, but that others involved in the program helped jump-start recruiting success in Tuscaloosa a bit faster than what other coaches might have been challenged with at the time. And yes, rivals have been doing it all along. No, it's not SMU, but it's also not above-board.
There's just enough smoke from 2007-2012 that I can't forget and won't give grace for how UA's success rapidly jump started:
-Trent Richardson
-Tom Albetar
-Baron Flenory
-Charles Robinson's smoke (who ended up writing virtually nothing)
-Children's First Foundation, McGregor, Namath, Drummond
-Saban's 2009-2012 classes overcommitted on the scholarship cap while keeping 12-14 around the locker room on medical greyshirts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:20 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
At no point in 2007 did we see such a comedy of errors as what Brian Kelly gave us Saturday night...not even in the ULM game. LSU did not look well coached much of the night, although the clutch drive at the end was nice.
And this is the troublesome issue for most rational LSU fans. After two clowns for head coaches who could recruit but weren't the best Xs and Os guys, Kelly was supposed to be the solution. It was painfully obvious that the team was not prepared and obvious that in game adjustments came way to late. Additionally, the team looked unmotivated and disinterested. Yes. Very concerning.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:23 pm to 4TheLoveLSU
Kelly will never be anything like Saban. Ya'll will still go 6-6 this year. I guess .... deal with it? 
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:26 pm to 4TheLoveLSU
quote:
What was the fanbase like when Saban first started and went what 6-6? Did Bama fans give Saban a chance or were they after his head?
I mean it was his first year, so I don't remember anyone doing anything of the sort.
Fans from other teams however never shut the frick up about it.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:33 pm to Jacknola
quote:
Alabama fans are just more sophisticated about football.
I should know better than to be drinking coffee while reading this board. My damn computer screen looked like a speckled trout for a bit.
Bama fans and sophisticated have as much business in the same sentence that Joe Biden and photographic memory do.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:33 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
That was the April, 2007 draft...after the 2006 season.. Not one of those players ever played for Saban at Alabama.
But to highlight your point about the 2007 team even more dramatically, know how many Alabama players were taken in the draft after that season?
Zero.
Not. One. Player.
That is what happens when the caffeine kicks in and nature calls in the middle of some major research. I got my years flipped at first and only flipped it the other way by one year when it should have been by two... or something like that. Just knew it was a shite show.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:34 pm to Gravy_Train
quote:
You can be laser-focused and execute to the best of abilities on everything from dorm room discipline to nutrition, while, at the same time, benefit from a few "shrewd bent rules" or ulterior advantages *outside the program* to get recruiting results within a new-ish venue
Absolutely. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Yet I can still provide ample evidence that he focuses significantly more attention on (legal) recruiting than his peers, so it’s logical that he has success there relative to his rivals. Also, I know the program is rolling now but look how he’s still killing it under NIL despite the fact that players usually will have multiple 4 and 5 stars ahead of them on the depth chart. NIL should have taken away his advantage, if what you are saying is true.
quote:
Those aren't benefits Saban himself may have directed
Ok, but previously you were saying he was personally blackmailing people and shite so I’m not really sure what you’re claiming now in terms of Saban’s involvement in cheating schemes.
quote:
There's just enough smoke from 2007-2012
I think it’s fine to look at circumstantial evidence in this informal discussion. But it’s still circumstantial, and I’d be shocked that something more concrete hasn’t come out (from a disgruntled former player perhaps) if the sophisticated, Saban/program-managed cheating scheme was in place that you’re suggesting.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:40 pm to Bama Bird
quote:
I can assure you I didn't hear a single person call for Saban to be fired in 2007
After everything we had been through in the previous decade I was fine.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:46 pm to thatthang
quote:
Also, I know the program is rolling now but look how he’s still killing it under NIL despite the fact that players usually will have multiple 4 and 5 stars ahead of them on the depth chart. NIL should have taken away his advantage, if what you are saying is true.
He's among the fastest in the SEC to adapt to almost anything, now NIL, but it's because he has to. Yes, NIL is taking recruiting advantages away from the established and it's a situation largely out of his control. What A&M benefited from last year is not NIL, and Saban is perfectly aware of that practice, but isn't doing much to refine that "game" within the SEC.
NIL is how Texas jumps back into this fold, despite losing to Kansas at home and going 5-7. It's easier with a bigger brand and endowment than anyone in the SEC, but putting kids in the NFL is still the biggest grade of success.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:58 pm to Gravy_Train
quote:
-Tom Albetar
So why did Alabama disassociate itself from Albatar if they were working together?
All you have done is put together a list of bullshite you've seen on the internet without delving any deeper into what actually happened. Just like you completely ignoring Alabama self-reporting the textbook scandal and literally causing themselves to lose football games as a result. It's not that you're stupid...you're just lazy.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:59 pm to Gravy_Train
I don’t really take any exception to your last post.
And at the risk of putting words in your mouth, it kind of appears that you have backed away from your initial (I would call extreme) claims: Saban blackmails those in power to look the other way, he runs an extremely dirty program relative to his rivals, he either directly manages or has direct familiarity with the details of an organized and highly sophisticated, program-managed cheating scheme to get recruits on campus. Now it appears you are kind of saying he is a master of adapting, he bends the intent of the rules to his favor, and/or operates in gray areas. If that’s where you’re at now, I agree with you.
And at the risk of putting words in your mouth, it kind of appears that you have backed away from your initial (I would call extreme) claims: Saban blackmails those in power to look the other way, he runs an extremely dirty program relative to his rivals, he either directly manages or has direct familiarity with the details of an organized and highly sophisticated, program-managed cheating scheme to get recruits on campus. Now it appears you are kind of saying he is a master of adapting, he bends the intent of the rules to his favor, and/or operates in gray areas. If that’s where you’re at now, I agree with you.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:59 pm to 4TheLoveLSU
How has this thread gone for you? 
Posted on 9/6/22 at 3:07 pm to thatthang
quote:
So why did Alabama disassociate itself from Albatar if they were working together?
Because by then, Trent Richardson had already racked up five cars and six baby's mommas?
quote:
If that’s where you’re at now, I agree with you.
That's mostly where I'm at, but that "the machine" wasn't built upon playing the same rules everyone else was trying to do in 2007-2010. At that time, one might have expected the NCAA to take a heavier hand. When UT and Ole Miss made their attempts later on, they were slapped down fiercely.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 3:08 pm to 4TheLoveLSU
Why are you trying to validate your program based on how Bama fans felt in 2007?
Posted on 9/6/22 at 3:11 pm to Gravy_Train
quote:
Because by then, Trent Richardson had already racked up five cars and six baby's mommas?
Funny. But it's still just a deflection and a lame attempt at saving face.
Picking up extra textbooks and or selling books would have been a perfect way of providing some extra cash for players. Yet Alabama turned themselves in immediately when they found out it was happening and cost themselves ballgames in the process. The whole episode completely shoots down your premise, and you still have yet to address it. You haven't rebutted it because you can't. That's where you've lost this debate.
This post was edited on 9/6/22 at 3:16 pm
Posted on 9/6/22 at 3:15 pm to 4TheLoveLSU
The 6 losses were by an average of 6 points with the biggest loss being 7 points. In other words, we were in every game despite all the Shula players, suspensions, etc and everyone knew better days were coming. Literally no one was mad at Saban after enduring 4 years of Shula.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 3:22 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
The whole episode completely shoots down your premise, and you still have yet to address it. You haven't rebutted it because you can't. That's where you've lost this debate.
It's not a debate, it's an example of why I personally don't take merit to Saban's success as a clean program. Was he aware of the autograph scheme? I'm sure he wasn't directly involved, but the dealings of scholarship players *off campus* largely falls upon the responsibility of the head coach. Some strange shiny new cars and 22" wheels in the athletics parking lot? He has to walk the same lot to get to/from the offices.
UA had to seperate from Albetar because it was a problem they weren't in control of [link=LINK ] and only stood to get worse. Right down to issuing a cease-and-desist as well as revoking field passes for alums.
This post was edited on 9/6/22 at 3:25 pm
Posted on 9/6/22 at 3:24 pm to Gravy_Train
quote:
it's an example of why I personally don't take merit to Saban's success as a clean program
Oh damn, I hope Nick doesn't find out about this. It will devastate him.
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