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re: What are the downsides of Tenn-style offense?
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:00 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:00 pm to SummerOfGeorge
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Yep - and that's why his splits vs bad teams/good teams at Mizzou/UCF were so striking. Because there were certain teams that he just didn't have the guys to beat with his system (which he's also tweaked since those days, for the better). This year - he basically has the players to beat anyone with it. Or, we'll find out in the last test of it Saturday I guess.
Yup. Drew Lock set the SEC TD record in this offense. He throws the deep ball as good or better than Hooker, but he wasn’t nearly as mobile. The biggest difference is we had two WR that we’re capable of stretching the defense at the time and one of them was hurt a lot and the other one had problem with drops. Tennessee has like 5 of those guys they can rotate which is important because running go routes all the time wears a guy out quickly.
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Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:00 pm to theaerialview
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Impressive stats, and nice find. Hooker only has one INT, however... or am I reading it incorrectly?
It's all the QBs, not just Hooker. That's probably where that extra INT came from.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:02 pm to deeprig9
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And they do it at a fast pace so you can't sub or catch your breath
Not to high jack the thread, but this to me is something I would do no matter type offense I ran. A very fast pace as it applies to getting to the LOS after the play to prevent the Def from substituting. This doesnt mean you have to snap the ball right away (although it helps) but when you do have the matchups you want, you go like hell.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:04 pm to ScoggDog
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Absolutely not. No way, no how. But that's the kind of thinking where Tenner baits coaches ... like Kentucky's ... into doing dumb shite.
Its all about efficiency. Old school football games went 120 plays. Tenner bumps that up, with their pace, to about 140 to 150. So its the difference between a ten possession and twelve possession game. That's part of the numbers they put up.
The key, on offense, is to do what you do to maximize your chances to score ... on that possession, every possession. Spoiler Alert - most coaches do not approach offense that way. Most of them approach offense as an opportunity to punt. Heupel, however, does not.
Georgia absolutely DOES NOT need "five more stops". They need to use the possessions they have, every time, to score. If that means eight possessions feeding the TEs ? Fine. Do that.
I don't think you guys are saying different things, just in different ways.
You have to score TDs - I think that's where the pressure can mount with an offense that is less "big play explosive" oriented like Georgia's and Alabama's to an extent was. A really good offense running their scheme will move the ball on Tennessee between the 20s, but it gets more difficult in the red zone for anyone and Tennessee is good in trenches which forces you to feel like you have to throw it.
We lost the game, other than the penalties, because we didn't finish 3 drives - we kicked 2 field goals when we got into the red zone and we missed the 3rd one because we couldn't gain 7-10 more yards in 3 plays. The muffed punt and their fumble scoop score kind of negated eachother, and in the end the difference was we settled for 2 field goals. Coaches have that in mind and it can force them into maybe getting out over their skis in the red zone or on 4th downs.
This post was edited on 11/2/22 at 5:07 pm
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:05 pm to Basura Blanco
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Not to high jack the thread, but this to me is something I would do no matter type offense I ran. A very fast pace as it applies to getting to the LOS after the play to prevent the Def from substituting. This doesnt mean you have to snap the ball right away (although it helps) but when you do have the matchups you want, you go like hell.
The thing with that, though, is you have to really have versatile personnel that you feel comfortable doing anything from power runs to WR screens to 4 guys running deep routes - and Tennessee does.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:06 pm to Basura Blanco
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This doesnt mean you have to snap the ball right away (although it helps) but when you do have the matchups you want, you go like hell.
Hence the problem. Most coaches don't have one offensive set that can "do it all". They scheme and manipulate so much, every single play.
Ever notice how many touchdowns are scored on the opening possessions ? Because the coordinators are still running off the script. Then, once they burn through that shite, everything dries up sometimes. Because they don't have working offensive systems. They have a few plays, and thats it.
Give Tenner credit. They're running some basic shite that works a bunch of different ways. Then, when they get a mismatch ... like a LB trying to cover a WR (nice job, Kentucky) ... they milk that shite for multiple downs. Because they can.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:14 pm to SummerOfGeorge
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The thing with that, though, is you have to really have versatile personnel that you feel comfortable doing anything from power runs to WR screens to 4 guys running deep routes - and Tennessee does.
Yeah they do. And if win they run the ball effectively, it is only a matter of time before Hooker takes the top off. (I am really going to miss the pun value when he goes to the NFL)
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:16 pm to Basura Blanco
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Yeah they do. And if win they run the ball effectively, it is only a matter of time before Hooker takes the top off. (I am really going to miss the pun value when he goes to the NFL)
If they run the ball for 3-4 yards a pop on 1st down then you are furked. There is no scheme on planet earth that can fix that issue, and that was Alabama's biggest issue. All the other stuff was a system of that disease.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:17 pm to Basura Blanco
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The thing with that, though, is you have to really have versatile personnel that you feel comfortable doing anything from power runs to WR screens to 4 guys running deep routes - and Tennessee does.
Let us ask ourselves ... why would a team that runs the ball 55% of the time split their WRs out almost to the sideline ? Even going so far as to stack them, to get as wide as possible ?
Its a mystery wrapped in an enigma.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:19 pm to Basura Blanco
One other point I’d like to mention here, they do give you an out to slow them down pretty consistently but no one ever seems to take advantage of it.
If you look on their passing plays there is almost always a go route or two and almost always the WR running that go route will exit the field at the top of his route and be replaced by another at the LOS. At this point you should flip your DL every single time and take your time doing it, but no one ever seems to take advantage of it.
If you look on their passing plays there is almost always a go route or two and almost always the WR running that go route will exit the field at the top of his route and be replaced by another at the LOS. At this point you should flip your DL every single time and take your time doing it, but no one ever seems to take advantage of it.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:21 pm to ScoggDog
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Let us ask ourselves ... why would a team that runs the ball 55% of the time split their WRs out almost to the sideline ? Even going so far as to stack them, to get as wide as possible ?
Its a mystery wrapped in an enigma.
Sounds great as long as your OL doesn't get overwhelmed at the point of attack and your RBs are good at identifying gaps to split quickly. If they do, even 1 time every couple of 1st downs, you are in 2nd and 10 and that scheme is not built to continually pick up 1st downs in that situation.
Against Alabama and Georgia in 2021 they were overwhelmed and it killed drive after drive. So far in 2022 the only team that has been able to do that to them is Pitt.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:23 pm to JesusQuintana
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If you look on their passing plays there is almost always a go route or two and almost always the WR running that go route will exit the field at the top of his route and be replaced by another at the LOS.
Yep. No different than a line change in hockey.
I always wonder, whenever playing Tenner, why defenses don't take advantage of four WRs lining up within steps of the sideline. The sideline never misses a tackle. But, they never take advantage of it. You'll see a DB line up evenly with that WR. That's old school football ... dumbly applied to the Heupel way of doing shite.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:23 pm to JesusQuintana
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If you look on their passing plays there is almost always a go route or two and almost always the WR running that go route will exit the field at the top of his route and be replaced by another at the LOS. At this point you should flip your DL every single time and take your time doing it, but no one ever seems to take advantage of it.
No shite? I havent noticed that and its pretty damn slick on Huepel's part. When you have seen this, have the refs done their stand over the center and look at the defensive teams sideline thing?
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:25 pm to SummerOfGeorge
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Sounds great as long as your OL doesn't get overwhelmed at the point of attack and your RBs are good at identifying gaps to split quickly. If they do, even 1 time every couple of 1st downs, you are in 2nd and 10 and that scheme is not built to continually pick up 1st downs in that situation.
Hmm. Luckily, most everybody plays a 3-4 now. Sounds like the entire scheme would fall apart against a 4-3.
Credit to Heupel. It sounds like he looked at modern defensive coaching and said to himself "that's dumb - lets exploit it".
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:25 pm to ScoggDog
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I always wonder, whenever playing Tenner, why defenses don't take advantage of four WRs lining up within steps of the sideline. The sideline never misses a tackle.
That has been my biggest question about defending their defense as well. To a novice it seems like the clear downside to lining your WRs up that wide is that the defensive backs can use the sideline to their advantage and play everything to their outside with a goal that is almost entirely DO NOT LET THEM CROSS MY FACE. Jam them at the line, don't them cross you, use the sideline as a double team. Make them drop it in the bucket between me and the sideline over and over. If they do, tip your cap. Leave your safeties in the middle third, tell your front 7 their job is the QB and the RB and mix up looks/pressures that way.
I assume that there are structural issues to that or that they have an adjustment that coaches have seen that is so automatic that it isn't even worth trying. Still, seems like something you'd see somebody make an effort at.
This post was edited on 11/2/22 at 5:28 pm
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:27 pm to Basura Blanco
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When you have seen this, have the refs done their stand over the center and look at the defensive teams sideline thing?
Usually. But it baffled Kentucky because the exit point and entry points weren't the same. Kentucky got caught with the wrong math ... too many LBs and not enough DBs ... all night because of it. For two years in a row now.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:28 pm to Basura Blanco
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No shite? I havent noticed that and its pretty damn slick on Huepel's part. When you have seen this, have the refs done their stand over the center and look at the defensive teams sideline thing?
Actually, I should say this was done constantly when he was here. I’m not sure they are still doing it but I would assume they are. Guys don’t have the endurance to run go route after go route effectively.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:29 pm to JesusQuintana
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Actually, I should say this was done constantly when he was here. I’m not sure they are still doing it but I would assume they are. Guys don’t have the endurance to run go route after go route effectively.
I also remember hearing something during our game with them last year that Ellerbe will get on the mic at points during a long drive and basically tell Heupel "our guys are done up front, you have to go for a shot play now - the drive has to end one way or another".
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:30 pm to SummerOfGeorge
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I assume that there are structural issues to that or that they have an adjustment that coaches have seen that is so automatic that it isn't even worth trying. Still, seems like something you'd see somebody make an effort at.
Honestly, don't sell yourself short. Coaches like Stoops ... most coaches, really ... know how to do this shite one way and one way only. They can't change.
I think Heupel has simply looked at all that and said "lets exploit it". He's clever.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:32 pm to ScoggDog
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Honestly, don't sell yourself short. Coaches like Stoops ... most coaches, really ... know how to do this shite one way and one way only. They can't change.
I think Heupel has simply looked at all that and said "lets exploit it". He's clever.
You are probably right. And, to be fair, most teams probably don't have CBs physically talented enough to just say "your job is to jam this guy to the sideline every play - if you don't he's gone and you have no help". Because Tillman/McCoy are physical beasts and then Hyatt has the feet of a cheetah.
However, watching Eli Ricks for us the next week absolutely blanket State receivers for 40 minutes after not getting on the field for a single snap in a game where he could have been tasked with that job.............pretty frickin frustrating.
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