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re: Vandy rape case: Juror on trial failed to disclose rape from 20 years ago
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:18 am to I-59 Tiger
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:18 am to I-59 Tiger
He says:
You follow:
What? His action was rape and the poster applauds the consequence of prison.
There's no need for a hate crime here and they'd have to show the defendant decided to rape her because she was white. Saying something hateful in the act doesn't mean that hate is why he did it. Charging for a hate crime turns up the media heat, makes it about race, and opens up more avenues for appeal. So the DA made the reasonable choice to hit them on the rape charges that were a slam dunk. That's just good prosecuting.
quote:
I don't think being white or black has a bearing on his actions. He's a rapist and he's going to prison.
You follow:
quote:
But can you hold a minority accountable for his or her actions?
What? His action was rape and the poster applauds the consequence of prison.
There's no need for a hate crime here and they'd have to show the defendant decided to rape her because she was white. Saying something hateful in the act doesn't mean that hate is why he did it. Charging for a hate crime turns up the media heat, makes it about race, and opens up more avenues for appeal. So the DA made the reasonable choice to hit them on the rape charges that were a slam dunk. That's just good prosecuting.
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Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:19 am to Killean
quote:
No, that's what you're taking from it just because I don't think white people are automatically guiltless just like black people aren't automatically guilty.
I have yet to read a post here where anyone insinuates white people are automatically guiltless or black people are automatically guilty. What I have seen is you dance around whether you can actually say a minority can be guilty of a crime and should be accountable for their actions.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:21 am to I-59 Tiger
Minorities and Majorities can't be guilty of crimes.
People can be guilty of crimes.
People can be guilty of crimes.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:22 am to Killean
Oh,good grief. Lets just open up the prison doors.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:23 am to I-59 Tiger
Are you fricking retarded?
I mean seriously.
That's not an insult, it's a serious question.
I mean seriously.
That's not an insult, it's a serious question.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:26 am to BrerTiger
quote:
Well, now I've seen everything.
Will you liberals please shut up so racism can die?
Who is it that keeps screaming racism? It's gotten to a point where any time a white person does something negative toward a black person, i.e. white boss fires black employee, people cry racist. White cop kills black suspect, people cry racist. White politician gets elected over black politician...you get the idea
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:27 am to Killean
Okay. Are you retarded?
You can't give a straight forward answer,that's for certain.
You can't give a straight forward answer,that's for certain.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:27 am to Killean
I-59 has shown himself to be plenty smart over the years. I have no idea why he's chosen this fight and why he's sticking with it though.
You're better than this I-59.
You're better than this I-59.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:30 am to Duke
what am I doing wrong? This guy keeps excusing actions minorities take without wanting to hold them accountable.
Tell me where I'm wrong and I'll apologize and go back to this quote I'm working on.
Tell me where I'm wrong and I'll apologize and go back to this quote I'm working on.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:31 am to Killean
quote:
The real question is can you hold him accountable for his actions without focusing on the fact that he's a minority.
When the "accountability" involves sentencing, and when T.C.A. § 40-35-114 (17) defines a mitigating factor as:
" The defendant intentionally selected the person against whom the crime was committed or selected the property that was damaged or otherwise affected by the crime, in whole or in part, because of the defendant's belief or perception regarding the race, religion, color, disability, sexual orientation, national origin, ancestry, or gender of that person or the owner or occupant of that property; however, this subdivision (17) should not be construed to permit the enhancement of a sexual offense on the basis of gender selection alone;"
then an examination of race is likely going to be necessary.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:31 am to Killean
quote:
These are independent facts that can exist all at the same time:
1. Batey is a rapist and deserves to be in prison a long time.
2. Black people often cause problems for the black community.
3. Racism exists and it is a problem.
4. People who blame racism for things aren't always right.
5. People who blame racism for things aren't always wrong.
6. Racism can exist between any group.
7. Being a minority doesn't mean you're immune from being a racist.
8. Having minority friends doesn't mean you're not a racist.
9. EXTREMISTS in all religions and groups are the problem.
We have bumped heads a few times in this thread, Killean, but I agree with this completely
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:32 am to I-59 Tiger
Why don't you actually point out a single instance where I excused the actions of a minority and didn't hold them accountable.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:35 am to Killean
that is certainly what I have gathered from reading your posts. If that is incorrect, like I told Duke, I apologize.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:37 am to I-59 Tiger
quote:
This guy keeps excusing actions minorities take without wanting to hold them accountable.
I quoted where he said the minority who did this is a rapist who's going to jail. I didn't see him disagree with him going to jail for being a minority. The only conclusion is he not excusing the man for his action of rape and supports him being held accountable for it.
How much more accountable should he want the former Vandy player to be?
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:41 am to I-59 Tiger
I think it just might be a case of misunderstanding.
My point is that people are accountable for their own actions regardless of race or upbringing. Also, you don't lose your own responsibility for a problem just because someone else contributes to it.
My point is that people are accountable for their own actions regardless of race or upbringing. Also, you don't lose your own responsibility for a problem just because someone else contributes to it.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:42 am to Duke
quote:
How much more accountable should he want the former Vandy player to be?
Accountable to enhanced sentencing?
Isn't that the discussion?
You proffer that its good prosecuting because the DA:
- Removed media attention
- Limited avenues of appeal
- More easily secured a convention
Isn't it reasonable for people to disagree about that? More specifically, even if its good prosecuting by some measure of: the DAs record, the saving of state money, or the increased chance the accused would serve some time; can't someone proffer that its not good because of the unequal application of a hate crime statute? Or as one person pointed out the possible futility of hate crime laws in general?
This post was edited on 1/29/15 at 10:45 am
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:46 am to Killean
quote:
My point is that people are accountable for their own actions regardless of race or upbringing. Also, you don't lose your own responsibility for a problem just because someone else contributes to it.
Well said.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:47 am to piggilicious
quote:
the way this thread turned is probably a prime example of why the lawyers didn't want to include this in the trial.
Was just thinking the same thing. Instead of discussing destroyed lives, heinous crimes that can occur anywhere, whether sexual assault is a bigger problem among athletes than the general population of young men, or any other thought-provoking issue related to this case...we're talking about the one issue they chose to exclude from the trial. Because it (racism) distracts from the appalling facts of the case.
This post was edited on 1/29/15 at 11:25 am
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:50 am to dukkbill
quote:
Isn't it reasonable for people to disagree about that?
I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect and want hate crime prosecution. People can have a different perspective and I wouldn't think they're idiots. Unless there are details I'm not aware of, there's not much to show he raped her because she was white and wanted to get back at whitey. Why try and build that case when you have him dead to rights on rape and will put him away for a long time?
quote:
Or as one person pointed out the possible futility of hate crime laws in general?
That's a legitimate point. While I can understand the purpose, murder is murder no matter why it happened. Same thing in this case.
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:52 am to BrerTiger
quote:
quote: Clay Travis @ClayTravisBGID 5 minutes ago In investigative reports, Batey was accused of peeing on victim & saying, "That's for 300 years of slavery, bitch."
Mother of God
I'm gonna turn the tables on this situation and blame Reverends Al and Jessie for indoctrinating ppl with these ideals
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