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re: Sporting News Coaches Ranking 1-133
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:26 am to SidewalkTiger
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:26 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
Recruiting is always in an upheaval during a staff change.
UGA - Last full year under Richt: 6th
UGA - transition class: 6th
UGA - first full year under Smart: 3rd
So... always?
2
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:27 am to DawginSC
quote:
Actually, NONE of the 2022 class had signed at that point.
Early signing period started less than a month later. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect Kelly to bring in a top tier class in less than a month, right?
Don’t be dumb. Check the 2023 and 2024 rankings (full cycles for Kelly) and get back to us.
This post was edited on 5/26/23 at 11:33 am
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:28 am to RB10
quote:
Early signing period started a month later. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect Kelly to bring in a top tier class in a month.
Don’t be dumb. Check the 2023 and 2024 rankings (full cycles for Kelly) and get back to us.
2 weeks actually
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:30 am to DawginSC
quote:
UGA - Last full year under Richt: 6th
UGA - transition class: 6th
UGA - first full year under Smart: 3rd
So... always?
2022 after firing Orgeron midseason - 12th
2023 - 6th
2024 - Currently 5th
What point are you trying to make exactly? Because in two full cycles Kelly is looking at top 6 classes.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:31 am to DawginSC
quote:
UGA - Last full year under Richt: 6th
UGA - transition class: 6th
UGA - first full year under Smart: 3rd
So... always?
ESD didn't exist during that transition period, my guy...
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:33 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
No one has won a NY6/BCS bowl at Notre Dame in 30 years
Another way to look at it is that all the decent coaches at ND have won NY6/BCS level games.
Yes, Charlie Weiss, Ty Willingham and Bob Davie failed to do so.
So did Brian Kelly. He's in the company of those guys. The others who failed to win that level of game or a national title or gone undefeated are Gerry Faust, Hugh Devore, Joe Kuharich, Hunk Anderson, Elmer Layden, etc.
ND fans view them as the "bad" coaches.
The good coaches? They all achieved that at least. Guys like Lou Holtz, Dan Devine, Ara Parseghian, Frank Leahy and Knute Rockne.
Also known as the "good" ND coaches.
The reality is Kelly was one of the bad ND coaches.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:33 am to RB10
quote:
What point are you trying to make exactly? Because in two full cycles Kelly is looking at top 6 classes.
He's a casual, he doesn't even understand how ESD has affected transitional classes.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:34 am to DawginSC
quote:
The reality is Kelly was one of the bad ND coaches.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:36 am to DawginSC
quote:
The reality is Kelly was one of the bad ND coaches.
The casual doesn't understand that Notre Dame isn't keeping up with the arms race within CFB.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:38 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
ESD didn't exist during that transition period, my guy...
So by "always" you meant, in the last 5 years?
Hmm.
Do you want me to show you how ND did when Kelly left... or would you rather I not destroy your misconceptions more?
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:40 am to DawginSC
quote:m
Do you want me to show you how ND did when Kelly left... or would you rather I not destroy your misconceptions more?
Sure, let’s look at it.
2022 (Kelly there for 95% of cycle) - 7th
2023 First full cycle without Kelly - 12th
Looks like they’re doing great
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:40 am to DawginSC
quote:
So by "always" you meant, in the last 5 years?
Hmm.
Do you want me to show you how ND did when Kelly left... or would you rather I not destroy your misconceptions more?
Their new head coach was already on the staff and there wasn't a ton of staff turnover.
That won't affect a transitional class as much as flipping an entire staff.
Your "comparisons" are terrible.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:43 am to RB10
quote:
Sure, let’s look at it.
2022 (Kelly there for 95% of cycle) - 7th
2023 First full cycle without Kelly - 12th
Looks like they’re doing great
So... it went from 9th in 2021 to 7th in 2022 when Kelly left.
So does a coaching change ALWAYS have a negative impact in recruiting or not?
Because the claim was made that it ALWAYS does. Now you're saying it doesn't if Brian Kelly is the one being replaced?
Not sure how positive a statement that is for Kelly.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:44 am to DawginSC
quote:
So does a coaching change ALWAYS have a negative impact in recruiting or not?
Because the claim was made that it ALWAYS does.
You're changing the statement.
It was actually that a staff change always causes upheaval.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:46 am to DawginSC
quote:
So... it went from 9th in 2021 to 7th in 2022 when Kelly left.
So does a coaching change ALWAYS have a negative impact in recruiting or not?
Kelly recruited 95% of that class to ND. Then they dropped to 12th. Don’t forget about that.
quote:
Because the claim was made that it ALWAYS does. Now you're saying it doesn't if Brian Kelly is the one being replaced?
No I didn’t. You can’t seem to keep things straight.
quote:
Not sure how positive a statement that is for Kelly.
2021: 11-2
2022: 9-4
2022 class: 7th
2023 class: 12th
I’m not sure how you can spin that as a negative for Kelly. You’re sure giving it your best shot though.
ETA: ND was 44-7 in Kelly’s last 4 seasons with 2 playoff appearances. Man, that guy sure is a bad coach
This post was edited on 5/26/23 at 11:51 am
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:50 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
History also says Yale and Princeton can win national titles yet here we are.
Notre Dame is now Princeton and Yale. Keep reaching dude, at the end of the day, TAMU now has a head coach with more hardware than LSU.
In the meantime, you paid the maximum money for a mercenary that has zero hardware. Now you want everyone in rantville to realize it's only a matter of time. And to really make your point stand out you continue to repeat yourself ad nauseam. No one cares what you or your bayou boys think will happen.
When Josh Pate speaks of ALABAMA he speaks with the knowledge he is talking about the greatest football program ever and a head coach with 7 NCs.
Some guesses are going to be better than others.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:52 am to bamameister
quote:
TAMU now has a head coach with more hardware than LSU.
They did in 2018 too.
Until they didn't.
quote:
When Josh Pate speaks of ALABAMA he speaks with the knowledge he is talking about the greatest football program ever and a head coach with 7 NCs.
Some guesses are going to be better than others
So Josh Pate is only right when he talks about Alabama.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:56 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
So Josh Pate is only right when he talks about Alabama.
Who knows. At ALABAMA, we like to wait until we see the hardware. In the meantime, enjoy all that potential.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:59 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
Your "comparisons" are terrible.
They seem to only be "terrible" when they show your beliefs aren't right.
2021 OU (last season under Riley) - 12th
2022 OU (transition) - 8th
2023 OU (first under Venables) - 4th
or
2022 AU (last season under Harsin) - 21st
2023 AU (transition) - 18th
or
2022 Nebraska (last season under Frost) - 41st
2023 Neb (transition) - 24th
Are you going to admit that some coaches don't have disasters in recruiting in their transition year? Or are you going to stick with believing that ALWAYS happens?
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:00 pm to DawgsLife
quote:Valid point.quote:
The title of the article reads : Ranking college football coaches 1-133 for 2023 season
To me this is the key. There is no doubt right now for the 2023 season I would rather have Brian Kelly as my coach over Jimbo Fisher. By that same metric I would rather have Kirby Smart over Nick Saban.
quote:In their prime, it gets interesting.
Getting all these coaches in their prime...I think I would still take Brian Kelly, but would take Nick Saban over Kirby Smart. If Kirby Smart continues winning at a high rate this might change.
It is looking more and more like Jimbo Fisher was a flash of a year or two and does not have staying power. Brian Kelly has been consistent as a whole.
I think Nick Saban and it isn't close. The LSU program he built was in way worse shape than UGA was, honestly so was Alabama. UGA made runs, had seasons they could have won but for inexplicable losses, and Smart has eliminated those losses. But I don't know how he does at a place where things need a true rebuild.
Fisher had a title, at Fla State. If there's a program in the country that screams "SEC caliber", with elite Southern athletes coming consistently, that's the program. But then things went sideways, he lost control of the conference to Clemson, and got run out of town.
Now at A&M, he showed promise... 2019 had a lot of "good losses". LSU, Bama, UGA, Clemson; you could say A&M was maybe a top 10 program with an unfortunate schedule.
Made a run in the covid year, but couldn't quite do it. Last year was supposed to be the big year, and they cratered instead. People laugh at LSU for losing to them, but think about that- that game very likely saved his job.
I think Kelly is better than I thought he was, and better than people think. It pains me to say this as an LSU fan, but I thought the ride was over for us. This program was imploding rapidly, and going into the season I didn't feel good about any game. Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas... all could be beatdowns. Florida and Auburn, similar programs but road games. Alabama and A&M, expected losses. We were due to have a season like men's basketball.
The fact that we didn't makes me optimistic, and rate him higher than I did before. You can laugh that we lost to A&M, and that UGA lit us up. That should have happened a lot, and it didn't.
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