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Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:01 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
Irons Puppet
Somebody has anger issues.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:02 pm to WDE24
I think their arguments, is that when someone has a history of repeatedly lying, the onus is on them to prove what they say is true in the realm of public opinion. Cam's lied on numerous occasions, his dad did until caught. It's much easier to believe that anything that could be negative to them would result in a lie to come from them in response, than it would be for them to be honest, since they have not been in one instance that can be proven.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:03 pm to Alahunter
quote:
Somebody has anger issues.
He ain't the only one pissed in this thread.....
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:04 pm to WDE24
quote:
Well, if they are liars, then the opposite of everything they have said has to be true right? That seems to be the logic in this thread.
From the get go this whole sordid mess has been based off of lies on both sides and it's ridiculous to say what we can or can't prove when it's all based off of lies to begin with. That's what I was trying to troll you guys with, but I finally got fed up and just said it
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:05 pm to Irons Puppet
GFY
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:07 pm to Alahunter
quote:
I think their arguments, is that when someone has a history of repeatedly lying, the onus is on them to prove what they say is true in the realm of public opinion. Cam's lied on numerous occasions, his dad did until caught. It's much easier to believe that anything that could be negative to them would result in a lie to come from them in response, than it would be for them to be honest, since they have not been in one instance that can be proven.
^^This X 1,000
shite! Cam and Cecil are liars, it's been proven that they have a history of lying. No one can just "select" statements from them as the truth.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:10 pm to Alahunter
quote:If that was their argument, then they could have said as much; they didn't.
I think their arguments, is that when someone has a history of repeatedly lying, the onus is on them to prove what they say is true in the realm of public opinion. Cam's lied on numerous occasions, his dad did until caught. It's much easier to believe that anything that could be negative to them would result in a lie to come from them in response, than it would be for them to be honest, since they have not been in one instance that can be proven.
If this is about the court of public opinion, then the logic still fails, but certainly Cam and Cecil's word can't be trusted for at least 2 reasons: 1. they have a vested interest in telling a particular story and 2. They have a past that makes it easy to attack their veracity.
Nevertheless, just because someone isn't truthful doesn't shift the burden of proof to that person to disprove allegations that lack any proof from the start.
Lastly, I could give 2 shits about the court of public opinion. I am only concerned with what the NCAA does or does not do. If the NCAA finds evidence that Cam knew or that AU paid, I will accept the punishments handed down. However, if the NCAA punished AU because Cecil can't be trusted and public opinion polls say people want them to, then I will have a problem with that.
This post was edited on 3/2/11 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:11 pm to Alahunter
think their arguments, is that when someone has a history of repeatedly lying, the onus is on them to prove what they say is true in the realm of public opinion. Cam's lied on numerous occasions, his dad did until caught. It's much easier to believe that anything that could be negative to them would result in a lie to come from them in response, than it would be for them to be honest, since they have not been in one instance that can be proven.
The problem is that public opinion means nothing, and if it was just public opinion that the Moore's and the Redfish's were trying to change it would not be a problem. They want to change history because it did not turn out the way they wanted. They know they can not take a re-count on the NC, so they make up things to fit their wants. They are all the biggest pussies in the sporting world.
The problem is that public opinion means nothing, and if it was just public opinion that the Moore's and the Redfish's were trying to change it would not be a problem. They want to change history because it did not turn out the way they wanted. They know they can not take a re-count on the NC, so they make up things to fit their wants. They are all the biggest pussies in the sporting world.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:12 pm to Irons Puppet
I think where the problem lies here is that you Auburn pukes seem to believe this case is set to be tried and proven in a court of law.
It is being investigated not by law enforcement or by the judicial system but by the NCAA. The burden of truth is not nearly so exact in this case. All that must exist for Auburn to be sanctioned is that the NCAA believe they cheated. Cecil's actions have gone a long way towards convincing the NCAA that Cecil, Cam, and Auburn are dirty.
It is being investigated not by law enforcement or by the judicial system but by the NCAA. The burden of truth is not nearly so exact in this case. All that must exist for Auburn to be sanctioned is that the NCAA believe they cheated. Cecil's actions have gone a long way towards convincing the NCAA that Cecil, Cam, and Auburn are dirty.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:16 pm to WDE24
quote:
If this is about the court of public opinion, then the logic still fails, but certainly Cam and Cecil's word can't be trusted for at least 2 reasons: 1. they have a vested interest in telling a particular story and 2. They have a past that makes it easy to attack their veracity.
It doesn't fail at all. The most important things that the two of them have been faced with in the last 3 years, they have lied and been caught in a lie about, up to the allegations of Cam knowing. Even the feel good SI article ended up catching Cam in a lie when he stated then, that his dad decided where he was going. At the Heisman ceremony, he changed his tune and said emphatically, he alone made the decision. When it appears that everything important asked of you is a lie, then the onus IS on you to prove you are being straightforward and honest, because your word means nothing at that point.
quote:
Nevertheless, just because someone isn't truthful doesn't shift the burden of proof to that person to disprove allegations that lack any proof from the start.
If they having a differing view, then they do have to prove something on their part, because their character has been greatly or completely diminished to the point that nothing but proof will be accepted.
quote:
Lastly, I could give 2 shits about the court of public opinion.
And from a fans perspective, I understand that. From a general perspective, this is why Auburn fans are catching so much heat though. Cam's and his dad's repeated lies and the way everything went down makes it much more believable that he knew, that Auburn knew and yall are accepting of being dirty as long as you got to win this year. A win at all costs, if you will. It comes off as arrogant and flippant.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:17 pm to phatcat
Here we go again:
quote:
I was very pleased with how that whole issue was handled. Our staff and enforcement did a great investigation, did it quickly and got to the facts as best we could find them…The fact of the matter is, as we got to the facts that we could uncover, they led to the right conclusion and it was that there is no evidence there was anything inappropriate with this young man and with that institution had occurred…The burden of proof for the NCAA is a little deeper than the burden of proof for a blogger.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:19 pm to WDE24
quote:
The burden of proof for the NCAA is a little deeper than the burden of proof for a blogger.
Damage control, diminishing the criticism their decision.
quote:
Our staff and enforcement did a great investigation,
Misspoke. Enforcement plays NO part in a reinstatement case, per NCAA rules and law.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:20 pm to phatcat
think where the problem lies here is that you Auburn pukes seem to believe this case is set to be tried and proven in a court of law.
It is being investigated not by law enforcement or by the judicial system but by the NCAA. The burden of truth is not nearly so exact in this case. All that must exist for Auburn to be sanctioned is that the NCAA believe they cheated. Cecil's actions have gone a long way towards convincing the NCAA that Cecil, Cam, and Auburn are dirty
But the NCAA has already stated they do not believe Auburn cheated. You puke revisioist can not accept that for fact, so you try to make up stuff.
It is being investigated not by law enforcement or by the judicial system but by the NCAA. The burden of truth is not nearly so exact in this case. All that must exist for Auburn to be sanctioned is that the NCAA believe they cheated. Cecil's actions have gone a long way towards convincing the NCAA that Cecil, Cam, and Auburn are dirty
But the NCAA has already stated they do not believe Auburn cheated. You puke revisioist can not accept that for fact, so you try to make up stuff.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:21 pm to Alahunter
quote:Your right. Because they lied about other things, I should believe that Auburn knew about it and accepted it without any proof.
Cam's and his dad's repeated lies and the way everything went down makes it much more believable that he knew, that Auburn knew and yall are accepting of being dirty as long as you got to win this year. A win at all costs, if you will. It comes off as arrogant and flippant.
What proof could someone show to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of events that took place? It fails logic to place that burden on someone without requiring some proof of knowledge.
From an discerning persons perspective, it seems like a whole lot of butthurt and wishful thinking on the part of opposing fans to want everyone, including Auburn fans, to accept the opposing fans ideal version of events without any proof.
This post was edited on 3/2/11 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:21 pm to Alahunter
Talk about grasping. how about these:
quote:
The NCAA recently ruled that quarterback Cam Newton's father tried to get Mississippi State to pay for Newton to play for the Bulldogs. The NCAA found no evidence that Cam Newton knew what his father did or that Auburn was involved, so he was allowed to keep playing.
quote:
The new NCAA chief said the backlash against the organization's decision to clear Newton to play would have been worse if he were prevented from competing based on the evidence against him. At the same time, he acknowledged it's a complex legal and ethical issue.
quote:
"Who is an agent and who is a third party and how do you define that?" Emmert said. "Is it a registered agent? A financial adviser? A counselor, an uncle, an AAU coach? Who is representing you? The reason the backlash didn't surprise me is that the face of the case seemed straight forward but we had to deal with the reality of the facts that were known."
This post was edited on 3/2/11 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:25 pm to Quigley
quote:
From the get go this whole sordid mess has been based off of lies on both sides and it's ridiculous to say what we can or can't prove when it's all based off of lies to begin with. That's what I was trying to troll you guys with, but I finally got fed up and just said it
Think your point went right over their heads. In fact, after looking at the last few posts, I'm sure of it.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:28 pm to WDE24
quote:
Your right. Because they lied about other things, I should believe that Auburn knew about it and accepted it without any proof.
Auburn has lied and been busted 7 other times. They lied the last time with their AD and coach about paying players. He's an integral part of the scene now and Chiz openly welcomed him back. It's not beyond the realm of reason to believe that Auburn has gotten back to the Dye ways.
quote:
What proof could someone show to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of events that took place? It fails logic to place that burden on someone without requiring some proof of knowledge.
That would be on Cam and Auburn to show now. By siding unconditionally with Cam and his dad, when Chiz stated it was garbage and Cecil was good people, he linked himself to them. How they do it, is not of concern to me, but that is what people want, instead of silence and no comments.
quote:
From an discerning persons perspective, it seems like a whole lot of butthurt and wishful thinking on the part of opposing fans to want everyone, including Auburn fans, to accept the opposing fans ideal version of events without any proof.
Your view isn't discerning. It's from a fans perspective. Much like many of the Bama fans' when the Albert Means situation drug on for several years. The difference being, many Bama fans thought they were legitimately innocent of wrongdoing. In this case, many Au fans are saying he was probably guilty, but hahaha we got away with it.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:29 pm to WDE24
quote:
Talk about grasping.
No grasping at all. Read the NCAA rule book and website. It specifically says how reinstatement works. Either they did it the right way and Emmert was catching so much heat, he misspoke in how it went down, or the NCAA broke it's own rules in reinstating Cam. There's no other option but those to to consider.
Posted on 3/2/11 at 4:31 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
Since people either always lie or always tell the truth
You got a problem with that?
ETA: The fail in this thread is funny
This post was edited on 3/2/11 at 4:34 pm
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