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Message

re: Per Gadsden Times: memorabilia sold

Posted on 7/24/11 at 11:48 am to
Posted by mckibaj
Member since Nov 2010
8327 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 11:48 am to
quote:

Both sides have crazy rumor mongering

When will it end? Death penalty for both? It's gotten ridiculous.


This post was edited on 7/24/11 at 11:51 am
Posted by Evolved Simian
Bushwood Country Club
Member since Sep 2010
23198 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 11:49 am to
quote:

It's not a rumor, it's a fact that Josh Chapman had his grades changed. Hoover was forced into a independent audit and found that some tampering had occured.... I don't think it had anything really to do with alabama.



It is a fact that Chapman had a grade change. It is also a fact that the UA registrar is the one who caught the change and reported Hoover. Chapman had a higher grade in one class on his final transcript than had been on an earlier version.
Posted by arwicklu
Houston, TX
Member since Jan 2008
7627 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 11:49 am to
quote:

I just want to know if Mr. Al-Betar's company, TSA Trading, INC, doing business as T-Town Menswear in Tuscaloosa, Alabama is actually selling the clothing attire (suits, sports coats/blazers, slacks, shirts, ties and accessories) to the players (at retail or with discount) or to the University.

If he is selling aforementioned merchandise to the players at a discount, is this same discount openly available to all students of the University of Alabama?

If he is selling the aforementioned merchandise to the University of Alabama, were there sales in excess of $7500 or more within a fiscal year period, and if so, did he and the University of Alabama openly (public record) participate in the State of Alabama Competitive Bid Law?


Bid laws are great in theory but they're worthless. They all have a clause like this "Items available from only one vendor/manufacturer may be approved as sole source after a review by the Purchasing Agent. To facilitate this review, a detailed statement, written and signed by the user and attested to by the Department Head, must accompany the requisition." If I put in the bid that I need something that is within a few miles of campus because my students don't all have Chargers yet, then I would be able to exclude most businesses.

Beyond that, all of these Universities have purchasing departments. They know the rules. I'm on the contractor side of this on government projects and purchasing departments seem to be really good at legally getting around a competitive bid.

The same discount being available to all students would not apply because it is a bulk discount. If any student buys or rents 100 suits, then I'm sure they'll get a bulk discount.
Posted by mckibaj
Member since Nov 2010
8327 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 11:50 am to
quote:

Assumptions are often what lead to rumors.


Like the assumption that if Cecil asked for money from MSU that he must have asked for money from
Auburn and got it?
Posted by Bellabama
Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent
Member since Nov 2009
30878 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 11:54 am to
Well, I think that's the point... I'm not saying it's right or wrong... but it started with a seed of truth. I think a lot of people assume, including the NCAA, that that is the case. That is why the investigation is ongoing. That's why the NCAA was in Montgomery. That's why they are checking every rumor. It sucks for Auburn right now, but I don't think anyone can say it's unfounded for them to look.

It's also fair to say that they will look at TR and try to decide if having autographed shirts will make him ineligible. It would be fair to say that if it had been determined his father admitted to shopping him, the Carfax incident would have been taken more seriously, and still found to be false.

This post was edited on 7/24/11 at 11:56 am
Posted by CFBFAN1121
Abbottabad, Pakistan
Member since Sep 2006
4174 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 11:55 am to
quote:

Like the assumption that if Cecil asked for money from MSU that he must have asked for money from
Auburn and got it?


According to Bamabelle, it's ok to come to that assumption b/c it's based in fact that Cecil asked for money from MSU

But according to her, it's not ok for us to assume that Julio got illegal benefits b/c he has 10 different suits even though it's a fact that he's all buddy buddy with the owner of a suit store.
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90742 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 11:56 am to
One admitted to something that was a violation. The other is a picture.
Posted by Bellabama
Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent
Member since Nov 2009
30878 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 11:56 am to
THat's not what I said dumbass. And get the fricking name right.
Posted by arwicklu
Houston, TX
Member since Jan 2008
7627 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 11:58 am to
quote:

Both sides have crazy rumor mongering. One side is on probation the other side is being investigated.

Anybody that believes one side is less crazy than the other is the true definition of a homer.


The good news is the national media is only really running with one side of the rumors.

But you're right, a section of the message board fans are equally crazy for every fanbase. For example, the original poster on this thread has ATPB listed all over his post history. I'm sure he doesn't care about the tinfoil hats but he spends a lot of time in that thread for some reason. Seems like a waste of time and effort and really just fuels the fire in there.

Posted by arwicklu
Houston, TX
Member since Jan 2008
7627 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 12:02 pm to
quote:

According to Bamabelle, it's ok to come to that assumption b/c it's based in fact that Cecil asked for money from MSU

But according to her, it's not ok for us to assume that Julio got illegal benefits b/c he has 10 different suits even though it's a fact that he's all buddy buddy with the owner of a suit store.


You can assume whatever you want. I think a dad shopping his son is probably looking for competitive bids as per the competitive bid law and such. I think it is a more logical jump. The national media also believes it is a logical jump.

But if you want to say you think that Julio got benefits because he owns suits that is ok. The national media isn't really with you on that but go ahead and post it up.
Posted by 19auburn49
Alabama
Member since Apr 2011
286 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 12:02 pm to
quote:

Do Auburn players wear suits during Tiger Walk/
?
No most of them wear sweats
Posted by Bellabama
Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent
Member since Nov 2009
30878 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 12:05 pm to
I'd say this is true. It's sort of like saying one fanbase is more educated than the other when it's from the same state and often the same families.

At least in my point, I don't know about Alahunter's, I think it's sort of silly to say a group of people, or a fanbase, are responsible for the plight put on a program, when the same issues have been raised in the past, and with falsified documents by theirs. In my mind, at least, it seems like it sort of neutralizes their argument. I'm not saying Alabama fans aren't as crazy. We have people poisoning trees, but to imply it's unwarranted or that Auburn is currently being mistreated because of another team's rumors seems to ignore the fact that some rumors are grounded in facts, and it is the rabid fanbase, not reasonable curiosity, that creates the flurry of investigation.

Posted by Vince
Danziger Bridge
Member since Nov 2009
2223 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

The same discount being available to all students would not apply because it is a bulk discount. If any student buys or rents 100 suits, then I'm sure they'll get a bulk discount.


Reading comprehension must fail you equally on message boards as it does in contracts with the State of Alabama. If you will care to note, the comment regarding a discount being openly available to all students of the University of Alabama, was under the condition that the players were actually the ones buying the articles of clothing.
quote:

If he is selling aforementioned merchandise to the players at a discount, is this same discount openly available to all students of the University of Alabama?


With the obvious personal relationship established between the vendor in question and the "Department Head," i.e., coach, would this tactic be in the best interest of the University of Alabama at this time?
quote:

To facilitate this review, a detailed statement, written and signed by the user and attested to by the Department Head, must accompany the requisition.

And for the record, I have dealt with the Bid Law on numerous occasions (not in the clothing business), but as a Department Head, often with a PO in excess of seven figures.
Posted by jatebe
Queen of Links
Member since Oct 2008
18507 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 12:13 pm to
quote:

No most of them wear sweats


Ok, I don't watch the Tiger walk, so I didn't know.
Posted by arwicklu
Houston, TX
Member since Jan 2008
7627 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 12:23 pm to
quote:

Reading comprehension must fail you equally on message boards as it does in contracts with the State of Alabama. If you will care to note, the comment regarding a discount being openly available to all students of the University of Alabama, was under the condition that the players were actually the ones buying the articles of clothing.


You can still offer a bulk discount and allow the sales to be individual. I promise if the student senate said they needed hundreds of suits but each student would be purchasing at different times, then they would get a discount. It isn't a reading comprehension issue, I actually understand how business works.

quote:

With the obvious personal relationship established between the vendor in question and the "Department Head," i.e., coach, would this tactic be in the best interest of the University of Alabama at this time?


It would be this hard. Hi department head, I need a clothing store within x miles of the campus so players can walk there. I don't want them taking improper benefits to get to the store. Also they must have the following merchandise y. There is nothing even shady about it.

It is easy to cut out vendors. It isn't a compliance issue, it is a fact with competitive bids in the entire US. They're all subject to the US government review which is a lot stronger than NCAA and none of them have an issue.

That being said, if there is a contract it is different. If it is an informal discount agreement based on a bulk purchase, then it wouldn't need a contract.
Posted by arwicklu
Houston, TX
Member since Jan 2008
7627 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

It is easy to cut out vendors. It isn't a compliance issue, it is a fact with competitive bids in the entire US. They're all subject to the US government review which is a lot stronger than NCAA and none of them have an issue.


By the way I'm not saying it is correct, however there is nothing illegal that can be proven about it. I get screwed by it all of the time so I just don't worry about it. Purchasing departments always make it look legit.

If you're looking for a way to screw the University of Alabama, their purchasing department and contracting probably isn't going to be the area. That is beyond an NCAA issue and would actually be a state issue.

I don't see why violating the state bid law would even be a concern to the NCAA. The state would probably make the University purchasing department do training.

I'm all for hearing that UA will go down because Trent got free suits. Knowing how competitive bids work, I think this argument is a stretch at best.
Posted by PipeHog
NWA
Member since Jun 2011
561 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 1:05 pm to
With the recent issues involving Ohio St, I would be concerned. Do a quick ebay search and you will find jerseys autographed by Trent Richards, AJ McCarron, Phillip Sims and etc. There may be nothing to it, but selling memorabilia of current players is a no-no. I'm sure it happens everywhere. A player walks into a card shop and sell a autographed shoe for gas money.

It just looks bad to have a business owner with that much access to the players and the program.
Posted by graves1
Birmingham, Alabama
Member since Mar 2011
2167 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 1:08 pm to
If you look at e-bay you will find stuff signed by almost every starter in the SEC.
Posted by PipeHog
NWA
Member since Jun 2011
561 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 1:19 pm to
quote:

If you look at e-bay you will find stuff signed by almost every starter in the SEC.


Yes, you are correct. Like I said it goes on everywhere. However you don't see pictures of every star tailback in the SEC signing jerseys in a men's store. I'm not saying anyone did anything wrong. Take into consideration Alabama's past with crazy boosters and fans, they do not need any attention from the NCAA.
Posted by The ChizMan Cometh
Tigerdroppings Legend
Member since Feb 2011
1671 posts
Posted on 7/24/11 at 1:33 pm to
Could be an unwritten benefit too.. You sign all of this merch for me to use in my store and when you are out of school I will make sure you have a big autograph session right here in the store..
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