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Older Arky fans
Posted on 12/12/10 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 12/12/10 at 3:08 pm
I just finished watching Pony Excess and I was just curious if you have any extra insight into what went on at SMU and that era of SWC football in general.
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Posted on 12/12/10 at 3:09 pm to Draconian Sanctions
The SWC is the answer to the question "Why is Lou Holtz senile".
Posted on 12/12/10 at 3:40 pm to Draconian Sanctions
I'm not older but the answer is what everybody on the show pretty much said. If you wanted to be good, you had to recruit Texas successfully, and if you wanted to recruit Texas successfully, you had to make it rain.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 3:44 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Anything specific, or just in general?
The Old SWC was a cesspool; at one point, Arkansas and Rice were the only two programs clear of probation. It wasn't limited to just football, either-- the cheating just wasn't as effective in other sports that Texans were less invested into than football.
What they don't tell you about the 17-17 tie that prevented an SMU 'title', is that SMU gained that tie on the strength of a call so atrocious that it's still used to teach referees what is and what is not pass interference.
Oh-- and my favorite bit that they left off, was after Houston rolled the post-death penalty Mustangs 95-21, Houston went to Little Rock and lost; the crowd chanted 'SMU-SMU-SMU' at them for most of the 4th quarter; Pardee and Houston eventually went on probation for that season.
The Old SWC was a cesspool; at one point, Arkansas and Rice were the only two programs clear of probation. It wasn't limited to just football, either-- the cheating just wasn't as effective in other sports that Texans were less invested into than football.
What they don't tell you about the 17-17 tie that prevented an SMU 'title', is that SMU gained that tie on the strength of a call so atrocious that it's still used to teach referees what is and what is not pass interference.
Oh-- and my favorite bit that they left off, was after Houston rolled the post-death penalty Mustangs 95-21, Houston went to Little Rock and lost; the crowd chanted 'SMU-SMU-SMU' at them for most of the 4th quarter; Pardee and Houston eventually went on probation for that season.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 3:46 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I just finished watching Pony Excess and I was just curious if you have any extra insight into what went on at SMU and that era of SWC football in general.
The entire conference was crooked.
Officials, schools, administrators. They hated Arkansas. When we decided to leave, they begged us to stay.
Broyles originally tried to leave the SWC back in the mid to late 70's and join what was then the Big 8. I cannot remember what happened exactly, but we did not.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 3:56 pm to BoardReader
quote:
What they don't tell you about the 17-17 tie that prevented an SMU 'title', is that SMU gained that tie on the strength of a call so atrocious that it's still used to teach referees what is and what is not pass interference.
Also what the show failed to mention in the show was this was "the game" that lead to Arkansas seriously looking to leave the SWC. Not only was there the bogus PI call that put SMU in a position to kick the FG to tie there was also a failure to call roughing the kicker against Arkansas. The PI call was made by on Horton Nestra. He was also the official who failed to call an SMU player down on throw back lateral kick return against TT. Had he call him down as he was SMU would have lost that game. It was always hinted that Nestra was in the pocket of SMU boosters.
This post was edited on 12/12/10 at 5:23 pm
Posted on 12/12/10 at 5:01 pm to Draconian Sanctions
And when you're examining Arkansas' athletic history in comparison with other SEC schools, imagine yourself in a conference where your most hated rival owns the conference, and he and all his little brothers make all the rules.
Imagine yourself thinking that today's SEC officials are not even close to the worst you've seen.
Imagine yourself thinking that today's SEC officials are not even close to the worst you've seen.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 5:07 pm to troyt37
I hope the show comes back on... I started watching it last night while pregaming, but ended up leaving to go out during the middle of it.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 5:18 pm to UpstateCock2007
quote:
I hope the show comes back on... I started watching it last night while pregaming, but ended up leaving to go out during the middle of it.
10pm CST on the Deuce tonite.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 5:18 pm to UpstateCock2007
Dickerson lied. Arkansas and one other SWC school (can't remember) were the only "clean" programs in that era.
The SWC in the 1980s was every bit as competitive as the SEC was in the 1980s IMO.
A lot of (mostly young) SEC fans think the SEC has always been this dominant beast they see today.
The SWC was brutally competitive, with teams like SMU and Houston becoming national powers in the 1980s. A&M was always competitive, and Texas was Texas.
Also, SMU and Baylor played home games at Texas Stadium and the Cotton Bowl at times, so the feel of the conference was bigger than you'd think.
I was young, and I vaguely remember knowing the SMU got the Death Penalty but not really knowing what that meant at the time. SMU, prestinge-wise at that time in the SWC, it would be similar to seeing a Georgia or Auburn get the Death Penalty in today's SEC. But the SWC only had 9 members, so the impact was more strongly felt.
The Arkansas fanbase general personality is shaped by the days of the SWC. We always were and probably always will (at least in our own minds) be outsiders. Its something we are very used to. Its better feeling like an "outsider" in a bigger, more evenly balanced conference, than being the only non-Texans and constantly dealing with Texas.
The SWC in the 1980s was every bit as competitive as the SEC was in the 1980s IMO.
A lot of (mostly young) SEC fans think the SEC has always been this dominant beast they see today.
The SWC was brutally competitive, with teams like SMU and Houston becoming national powers in the 1980s. A&M was always competitive, and Texas was Texas.
Also, SMU and Baylor played home games at Texas Stadium and the Cotton Bowl at times, so the feel of the conference was bigger than you'd think.
I was young, and I vaguely remember knowing the SMU got the Death Penalty but not really knowing what that meant at the time. SMU, prestinge-wise at that time in the SWC, it would be similar to seeing a Georgia or Auburn get the Death Penalty in today's SEC. But the SWC only had 9 members, so the impact was more strongly felt.
The Arkansas fanbase general personality is shaped by the days of the SWC. We always were and probably always will (at least in our own minds) be outsiders. Its something we are very used to. Its better feeling like an "outsider" in a bigger, more evenly balanced conference, than being the only non-Texans and constantly dealing with Texas.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 5:20 pm to Draconian Sanctions
You saw it all, DC. Nothing much to add except for individual stories not covered.
Not saying we were without our skeletons but the only time Arkansas was mentioned in the entire 2 hours was the last 2 minutes, by ED. As he was just naming schools in the SWC. Aggie, UT, Baylor and TT were mentioned throughout...
But I'm not an idiot either.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 5:25 pm to Sao
There's a reason I put "clean" in quotes. I don't think we were spotless. But I also don't think we were as egregious as the Texas schools. We didn't have the money back then.
The entire state of Texas was flush with oil money and in the middle of a boom, while Wal-Mart's glory days were still ahead.
We were never caught, and I'm inclined to believe those Texas bastards would have done anything they could to get us caught.
I'm fairly confident we were (at least relatively speaking) a clean program.
The entire state of Texas was flush with oil money and in the middle of a boom, while Wal-Mart's glory days were still ahead.
We were never caught, and I'm inclined to believe those Texas bastards would have done anything they could to get us caught.
I'm fairly confident we were (at least relatively speaking) a clean program.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 5:29 pm to wmr
I must have been under a rock (or I was chasing tail being a teen) but all of the Gov. Clements stuff was eye popping all over again. This 30/30 and the U were incredible TV
Posted on 12/12/10 at 5:43 pm to KingofDeQueen
quote:
0pm CST on the Deuce tonite.
Thanks.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 5:55 pm to troyt37
quote:
Imagine yourself thinking that today's SEC officials are not even close to the worst you've seen.
So, you are saying the old SWC officials were worse to Arkansas than the SEC is to however is playing bama and aubie?
How did Arkansas ever win the SWC chmapionship? Hell, UT always has had talent.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 6:02 pm to tigernchicago
I think the SEC refs are just as bad or worse than the SWC. I would say worse b/c they have the benefit of replay and still can't get it right half the time or decide not to.
This post was edited on 12/12/10 at 6:05 pm
Posted on 12/12/10 at 6:06 pm to BoardReader
quote:
Oh-- and my favorite bit that they left off, was after Houston rolled the post-death penalty Mustangs 95-21, Houston went to Little Rock and lost; the crowd chanted 'SMU-SMU-SMU' at them for most of the 4th quarter; Pardee and Houston eventually went on probation for that season.
The game against Houston that year (1989) in Little Rock has to be one of my all-time favorites to witness. It was just one of those nights where you could feel the "electricity" in the air. Jack Pardee, Andre Ware and the Houston Cougars... well, they were accustomed to flaunting their newfound swagger and were the types of opponents you just hated...and I do mean hated, with every bone in your body. But with those teams, i.e Houston, SMU, and let's not forget Texas, one had to respect their level of talent. It was unreal.
The corruption was rampant in the SWC. There seemed to be no fear or shame with it, though some SWC teams took more pride in perfecting it into something worth flaunting. It was disappointing for me.
This post was edited on 12/12/10 at 7:25 pm
Posted on 12/12/10 at 6:41 pm to Derrick
quote:
I think the SEC refs are just as bad or worse than the SWC. I would say worse b/c they have the benefit of replay and still can't get it right half the time or decide not to.
Can't agree with that. Now a days, most games are nationally televised so there is generally a bigger backlash to simply ridiculous calls. Back in the SWC days, the Texas officials didn't give shite about Arkansas in the first place, coupled with the lack of a microscope on the ref's actions made boning Arkansas a somewhat consistent practice.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 6:47 pm to Porky
Yeah I remember having a visceral hatred for the Houston Cougars in both basketball and football.
They were kind of like Miami in that way. You just knew they were dirty, and they didn't even try to pretend they had class.
They were kind of like Miami in that way. You just knew they were dirty, and they didn't even try to pretend they had class.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 6:47 pm to BennyAndTheInkJets
I only recall games from 86 to 91, so that's not a long memory from SWC, but I do know that one time in the Liberty Bowl 1976 ib, SEC refs screwed us against Tenn by giving a fumble we recovered back to them....the only close call Arkansas has ever received in the SEC is the JJ Meadors TD at Alabama.
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