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re: NIL is getting out of hand
Posted on 12/22/22 at 8:08 am to TValley
Posted on 12/22/22 at 8:08 am to TValley
quote:
The NFL has salary caps. Cap what teams can spend.
Schools already have scholarship limits.
This would be like the NFL telling the players they cant make money off commercials or endorsements.
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Posted on 12/22/22 at 8:09 am to silverstreak
It'll eventually work itself out. Don't be a baby communist.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 8:21 am to meansonny
quote:
Labor board says college students are labor?
Color me shocked.
That is about the 11th time a labor board has done this.
-nothingberger
Correct, but all those times before, that was pre Alston 9-0. Kavanaugh's concurrent opinion, Gorsuch wrote the opinion for the Majority (it was 9-0 remember). Kavanaugh's opinion sets a foundation for base salaries for college football players, perhaps collective bargaining by Conference is going to happen which of course is going result in some split between of some sort. I am well aware Alston was related to NIL. But go back and read Kavanaugh's opinion, it had wording like the NCAA model totally violates the American model of free markets and anti-trust anti-competition.
I don't have Kavanaugh's full opinion but the excerpts cited here in this USA Today article clearly show he mentions collective bargaining and football players as employees.
LINK
So Pre Alston, a labor board stating unfair labor practices by the NCAA and players are employees, a No Go. Post Alston, hmmmmmmm, well, you read Kavanaugh's opinion and tell me how you don't come to a conclusion that college ball is heading to look more and more like the NFL, more than it already is.
This post was edited on 12/22/22 at 9:02 am
Posted on 12/22/22 at 8:34 am to silverstreak
Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread. Has anyone mentioned how stupid this kid is to turn down $5 million dollars to start at UGA or Bama next year?
Posted on 12/22/22 at 8:35 am to silverstreak
the only way to remotely fix this is to place a hard cap of 65 players on the roster.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 8:44 am to greenbean
quote:
he only way to remotely fix this is to place a hard cap of 65 players on the roster.
How does that fix anything? I gather you are a fan of a Group of 5 program. Ultimately, there needs to be a bifurcation of what is currently FBS. There are too many schools all under the FBS umbrella who in form are the same, but in substance are not the same. The Mountain West and Sun Belt are not the BIG10 and SEC. Period.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 8:53 am to silverstreak
quote:
NIL is getting out of hand
Are we talking about the same NIL that was supposed to put the GOAT on the ice flow? Are we talking about that NIL or some different NIL?
Posted on 12/22/22 at 8:55 am to LouisianaFan4Life
quote:
Amen. The boosters didn't get rich paying for things without a solid ROI. I assume it'll be the wild west for a few more years, but eventually we'll have a better idea of true market value for these kids. Then the 5* qb will get millions and the 3* wr will get a few local contracts. But it'll open the door for the 3* db that turns out to be a generational talent to capitalize on their proven talent.
It's an excellent point that this remains an emerging market. We don't really know that current market conditions will be the status quo several years from now. Chances are, they won't. As the market matures and people learn from winners and losers in the market, it's likely that market conditions will generally become more conservative than they are right now where everyone is rushing in like in a boom.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:02 am to TValley
quote:
Cap what teams can spend.
This likely wouldn't pass legal muster. This is basically setting up an anti-market cartel. This is essentially what the NCAA is (capped the number at 0), and that's why the Supreme Court ruled they way it did. You have to remember that the NCAA is not a mechanism for enforcing rules; it's a mechanism for enforcing and protecting an economic cartel. The Supreme Court has ruled that cartel is illegal and cannot continue. That's why the NCAA is so at sea--it's basically been stripped of its reason to exist.
The reason the NFL is able to cap spending is because it engages in collective bargaining. That means that there's a players union on the other side it can deal with. The problem for college sports is on both sides--not only is there no players union, there isn't an overarching organization with the ability to represent all of FBS. We have individual conferences. Maybe the way this is headed is collective bargaining with conferences and conference player unions.
This post was edited on 12/22/22 at 9:04 am
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:04 am to JKChesterton
quote:
How does that fix anything?
Because there will be less roster spots on the dozen or so schools who have a near unlimited salary cap. Resulting in less "stealing" of players. P5 conferences need to be relatively healthy down to the mid tier teams in the conference. In other words, we know Tenn/Bama/UGA/UF/T5&7, etc., will still get the best players, but Ark/MSU/OM/KY/USCe, need to stay as relevant as they are now.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:07 am to greenbean
quote:
Because there will be less roster spots on the dozen or so schools who have a near unlimited salary cap. Resulting in less "stealing" of players. P5 conferences need to be relatively healthy down to the mid tier teams in the conference. In other words, we know Tenn/Bama/UGA/UF/T5&7, etc., will still get the best players, but Ark/MSU/OM/KY/USCe, need to stay as relevant as they are now.
If parity, or something like the parity the NFL has, is the goal, then roster limitations are probably the only long term solution.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:11 am to greenbean
quote:
Because there will be less roster spots on the dozen or so schools who have a near unlimited salary cap. Resulting in less "stealing" of players. P5 conferences need to be relatively healthy down to the mid tier teams in the conference. In other words, we know Tenn/Bama/UGA/UF/T5&7, etc., will still get the best players, but Ark/MSU/OM/KY/USCe, need to stay as relevant as they are now.
I think the Portal solves, starting to solve that already. The Days of schools like Bama, Ohio State, Clemson (or anyone else U name it) having 4-5 stars stacked across their 3 deep are over. Guys who have ability are going to hit the portal and find a place to play
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:35 am to JKChesterton
quote:
I think the Portal solves, starting to solve that already. The Days of schools like Bama, Ohio State, Clemson (or anyone else U name it) having 4-5 stars stacked across their 3 deep are over. Guys who have ability are going to hit the portal and find a place to play
Very few are hitting the portal as ready to play like an Addison. The majority of the players hitting the portal could not break the rotation or buy in. This year the portal will show us one thing. It will be like the draft where so many leave early for the draft to only find out they will never play competitive football again.
Almost 1500 have already entered the portal and 31% have found a home. The portal is open until Jan and will reopen again in the spring. The numbers are expected to hit 2000+. FBS teams alone will bring in over 4000 new HS recruits this year. The math will not favor all these entering the portal.
The portal is a blessing for coaches like Saban who are the best at roster management. His first few years he was criticized for processing via gray shirting and medical. Now he can do it all that at even a faster pace.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:37 am to TideWarrior
quote:
The portal is a blessing for coaches like Saban who are the best at roster management. His first few years he was criticized for processing via gray shirting and medical. Now he can do it all that at even a faster pace.
Weird considering how he was whining about this and NIL then now went and bought him a class. What a sleaze bag
Posted on 12/22/22 at 11:00 am to JKChesterton
quote:
I think the Portal solves, starting to solve that already. The Days of schools like Bama, Ohio State, Clemson (or anyone else U name it) having 4-5 stars stacked across their 3 deep are over. Guys who have ability are going to hit the portal and find a place to play
Correct, but college fans grow affinity for players over a three year career, if one or two of a team's 4 or 5 best players leave every year, then fan interest in mid tier teams will continue to decline, in stadium attendance has been declining for several years at most programs. We are still in the infancy stages of NIL, it's going to continue to grow and the biggest negative impact will be on mid tier teams.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 12:16 pm to TideWarrior
quote:
Very few are hitting the portal as ready to play like an Addison. The majority of the players hitting the portal could not break the rotation or buy in. This year the portal will show us one thing. It will be like the draft where so many leave early for the draft to only find out they will never play competitive football again.
Almost 1500 have already entered the portal and 31% have found a home. The portal is open until Jan and will reopen again in the spring. The numbers are expected to hit 2000+. FBS teams alone will bring in over 4000 new HS recruits this year. The math will not favor all these entering the portal.
The portal is a blessing for coaches like Saban who are the best at roster management. His first few years he was criticized for processing via gray shirting and medical. Now he can do it all that at even a faster pace.
That is all fine and dandy but Drew Sanders at Arkansas is likely a 2nd round pick. Cohen the OL who went to Miami will likely play in the NFL, as will Holden the WR who went to Oregon, along with the CB who went to Auburn.
Some players that are very talented that 5 or 6 years ago who were the 2nd team maybe played in specialty packages and not in the starting lineup for Bama that wants to start and play against P5 competition are going to leave.
That is the reality
Posted on 12/22/22 at 12:45 pm to JKChesterton
Yes and the reality is UA will just replace at a quicker rate now. I would prefer seeing players leave that are only taking up bench space than have to hold to them for 3 or 4 years
Posted on 12/22/22 at 1:07 pm to TideWarrior
quote:
Yes and the reality is UA will just replace at a quicker rate now. I would prefer seeing players leave that are only taking up bench space than have to hold to them for 3 or 4 years
That is true, but your ability to out depth people will not be what it was in the past, same for everyone else. That is the reality. Lots of players that were on the 2 and 3 deep at Schools like Bama, LSU as well, that are going to go somewhere else and put up numbers.
I will give you an LSU example, Trey Palmer was the #6 player in the state of LA (# 112 overall). High 4-star with a grade of 0.9499. LSU has lots of WR so after last year, he was probably no better than WR 5 at LSU. He showed flashes in the PR and KO game, and made some plays at WR but had some drop issues. He goes to the Portal to Nebraska where he is 10 times better than anything they have, drop issues and all. He put up 1,000 plus Receiving yards at Nebraska and Pro Football Focus has him as a 2nd/3rd round pick (he declared for the draft).
Like I said, he is WR 5 this year at best at LSU behind Nabers, Boutte, Thomas Jr and Jenkins.
LSU has guys like that as well who have measurables made some plays at their school but go somewhere else where they are WR 1 and put up production and now NFL draft prospect.
Bama, UGA, Ohio State, OU, LSU, Clemson, Texas, Texas A&M, all have talent that is not on their 1st team sitting on the 2/3 deep that can play.
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