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re: NCAA not expected to pass legislation on the Newton loophole at
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:15 pm to Alahunter
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:15 pm to Alahunter
quote:
He qualified that statement with the words. At this time.
You still want to hang on to those same words. Those words hold true for every athlete in college sports. It is over and you not stop what happen Monday night. Time to move on.
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Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:16 pm to BamaDan
quote:
So your story is that cam, who wanted to attend msu, was cheering for msu at a game, and was headed there, changed his mind on his own, then told cecil or not, but the turned around and stated in an interview that cecil made the call?
They have drugs that help treat these conditions. Seek help.
He loved MSU so much he visited OU and didn't have an official offer from them, the same with UT as well. Newton has always liked Auburn, he wanted an Auburn offer coming out of highschool but Borges offered Kodi instead.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:16 pm to Irons Puppet
You realize the NCAA was in Georgia investigating just a couple of weeks ago, right? And that it's not really over with, right? Just because you hope it's over, doesn't mean it is. It's not time to move along. This thing will drag out for some time to come.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:17 pm to BamaDan
quote:I assume you haven't read any of my posts in this thread. I haven't said any of that.
So your story is that cam, who wanted to attend msu, was cheering for msu at a game, and was headed there, changed his mind on his own, then told cecil or not, but the turned around and stated in an interview that cecil made the call?
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:17 pm to Alahunter
A lot of you are assuming that the NCAA has to abide by some legal burden of proof...they don't.
They could have said "Cecil Newton solicited extra benefits from Mississippi State University. In doing so he was acting as Cam Newton's agent. This is not allowed under NCAA rules. The player is permanently inneligible in college athletics due to a loss of amateur status."
ANy question dealing with the players knowledge of the arrangement would be explained as "the NCAA makes no distinction between a player and his parents regarding these rules. They are one and the same entity."
Auburn could have played with legal definitions to their hearts content and it wouldn't have mattered.
Its a closed system where they interpret their own rules. They don't have to consider a legal definition at all. Look no further than the USC ruling. That ruling was harsh because i think they thought the program was dirty. The ruling they actually made and the basis of it was virtually made up from nothing. They made up a new rule, "high profile athletes require high profile management and compliance", and then penalized them for violating it. They can do whatever they want.
They could have said "Cecil Newton solicited extra benefits from Mississippi State University. In doing so he was acting as Cam Newton's agent. This is not allowed under NCAA rules. The player is permanently inneligible in college athletics due to a loss of amateur status."
ANy question dealing with the players knowledge of the arrangement would be explained as "the NCAA makes no distinction between a player and his parents regarding these rules. They are one and the same entity."
Auburn could have played with legal definitions to their hearts content and it wouldn't have mattered.
Its a closed system where they interpret their own rules. They don't have to consider a legal definition at all. Look no further than the USC ruling. That ruling was harsh because i think they thought the program was dirty. The ruling they actually made and the basis of it was virtually made up from nothing. They made up a new rule, "high profile athletes require high profile management and compliance", and then penalized them for violating it. They can do whatever they want.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:17 pm to rangers911
He liked them so much so, that it took his dad to tell him to go there?
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:18 pm to Alahunter
quote:I don't know if it is over or not, but he didn't use the at this time languange in this interview.
I was very pleased with how that whole issue was handled. Our staff and enforcement did a great investigation, did it quickly and got to the facts as best we could find them…The fact of the matter is, as we got to the facts that we could uncover, they led to the right conclusion and it was that there is no evidence there was anything inappropriate with this young man and with that institution had occurred…The burden of proof for the NCAA is a little deeper than the burden of proof for a blogger.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:18 pm to rangers911
I see you didn't bother to address my point at all. That story is beyond incomprehensible. Try harder.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:18 pm to tigersruledude
quote:
A lot of you are assuming that the NCAA has to abide by some legal burden of proof...they don't.
As a Bama fan.. don't I know it.
quote:
Its a closed system where they interpret their own rules. They don't have to consider a legal definition at all.
100% correct.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:20 pm to WDE24
Explain NCAA investigators in Georgia right before Christmas asking contractors questions then, if the investigation isn't continuing?
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:22 pm to tigersruledude
quote:They don't have to, but they have chosen to abide by a "preponderance of the evidence " burden of proof.
A lot of you are assuming that the NCAA has to abide by some legal burden of proof...they don't.
quote:They could have, but they didn't because they believe that they needed to find some culpability on the part of the school or the player.
They could have said "Cecil Newton solicited extra benefits from Mississippi State University. In doing so he was acting as Cam Newton's agent. This is not allowed under NCAA rules. The player is permanently inneligible in college athletics due to a loss of amateur status."
quote:The NCAA committees are made up of mostly lawyers and, while not required to take them into consideration, legal authority will be persuasive.
Auburn could have played with legal definitions to their hearts content and it wouldn't have mattered.
quote:Mostly true, but they do so anyway.
Its a closed system where they interpret their own rules. They don't have to consider a legal definition at all.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:23 pm to Alahunter
quote:
You realize the NCAA was in Georgia investigating just a couple of weeks ago, right? And that it's not really over with, right? Just because you hope it's over, doesn't mean it is. It's not time to move along. This thing will drag out for some time to come.
The investigation isn't fully over because it never centered on Cam, it centered on Rogers and Bonds. That's what most people have never figured out. Mike Slive has commented that he believes the investigation is over but it is up to the NCAA to say so, the NCAA president came out and said Cam was cleared to play at Auburn.
If they find something out then they will go back and could retroactively make Cam ineligible. I personally doubt it considering all that is out there. I've said before I've never worried about the investigation, after talking with multiple people I am very confident Auburn is in the clear but even if we weren't it would make public the guilty would be fired and the program would be clean. So either way the outcome is good for me.
I will say I've never seen people want something to be true when all evidence out in public is to the contrary. Some of the things people have said I do wonder if they have tin foil hats and RF paint at home. This is my last post on this whole Newton mess as I'm simply tired of people who will believe anything bad about another program. For people who talk about ITAT they are making them look sane.
This post was edited on 1/12/11 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:23 pm to Alahunter
This dude can't explain shite. You have to take 15 leaps of faith to even comprehend the way he thinks this played out.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:23 pm to Alahunter
quote:Where did you get that info?
Explain NCAA investigators in Georgia right before Christmas asking contractors questions then, if the investigation isn't continuing?
Also, like I said, I don't know if it is over or not, but Emmert's statements make it seem like it is over.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:24 pm to Alahunter
Burden of proof and assumptions are not equal. Most of the "haters" made the assumption that if he shopped Cam to Miss St, he did the same at Auburn. Now they have to find a way to show that it happened. Is Cam or Cecil going to say that, that leaves someone at Auburn admitting it happen. I am sorry but you are still chasing shadows.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:25 pm to BamaDan
quote:This thread has nothing to do with how I think it played out or how it probably played out. It is about the proof the NCAA is requiring before it will take action and the reasons they are likely requiring that proof. It has to do with how agency is defined and treated under the law, IMO. Also, it is about if and when the NCAA changes its rules to avoid this type of scenario.
You have to take 15 leaps of faith to even comprehend the way he thinks this played out.
This post was edited on 1/12/11 at 1:31 pm
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:25 pm to Alahunter
They like to keep the rules vague to ensure their self-serving arbitrary outcomes.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:26 pm to rangers911
Umm the investigation is ongoing and does involve Cam. The NCAA investigators were in West Georgia asking two guys about their contracted relationship with Cecil Newton ...
Just because you wish something to be true doesn't make it so ...
Just because you wish something to be true doesn't make it so ...
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:33 pm to WDE24
quote:
Explain NCAA investigators in Georgia right before Christmas asking contractors questions then, if the investigation isn't continuing?
Where did you get that info?
Updated Jan 8, 2011 5:01 PM ET
NCAA investigators have interviewed two Atlanta-area men about whether they were asked to or did deliver money to the father of Auburn quarterback Cameron Newton in connection with repairs to Cecil Newton Sr.’s church in Newnan, Ga.
Emory Wilcox and Eddie Norris were separately questioned the week before Christmas by two NCAA investigators, one of which was Jackie Thurnes, the NCAA’s associate director of enforcement.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:38 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
Burden of proof and assumptions are not equal. Most of the "haters" made the assumption that if he shopped Cam to Miss St, he did the same at Auburn. Now they have to find a way to show that it happened. Is Cam or Cecil going to say that, that leaves someone at Auburn admitting it happen. I am sorry but you are still chasing shadows.
They don't need someone from Au to admit it happens. They could find independent evidence with needing corroboration from an Auburn coach, or booster or Cecil. They also don't need a money trail. They simply have to have enough evidence to show that it was very likely that Cam knew. And with the history of Cam leaving things up to his dad, there isn't too much more they'll need to find.
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