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re: NCAA not expected to pass legislation on the Newton loophole at
Posted on 1/12/11 at 12:51 pm to Alahunter
Posted on 1/12/11 at 12:51 pm to Alahunter
quote:He is legally only culpable for his own actions and those he authorizes someone else to make for him. Thus, he is culpable for Cecil choosing AU, not Cecil soliciting MSU.
He was an adult and culpable.
This all assumes he really didn't know what Cecil was doing.
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Posted on 1/12/11 at 12:55 pm to WDE24
quote:
First, leaving the decision up to his dad likley means that he was going to take his dad's advice, the decision was still ultimately his
What part of .. I let my dad make the decision do you not understand?
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When did he leave it up to his dad?
Pretty sure it said in his interview, it was around Christmas. Long after the other happened.
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If it could be proven that Cam told his father before the solicitation that the decision was Cecil's, then your theory might hold a slight amount of merit
I understand why you don't want to accept Cam's own words stating he let his dad decide is proof enough.
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If it was after the solicitation, Cam letting his dad make the decision with no knowledge of the solicitation does not then cause Cam to be culpable for his dad's past dealings that Cam was unaware of (allegedly).
Cam was 21, an adult. He gave his dad the authority to make the decision where he'd attend. From that point on, Cam is responsible for his dad's actions concerning his recruitment and school of choice. You pretty much ignored everything that Cam stated and tried to make arguments for what ifs, when the facts are clear.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 12:59 pm to beaver
quote:
Why would anyone intentionally ask for money and not get it?
That is a DANG good question...perhaps the NCAA should have asked it a couple months ago...might not be having this issue right now.
In all seriousness, i think its pretty simple. There are lots of folks who could stick there hand out and it isn't quite fair to attach all of those folks to the player.
However...some folks are simple:
Player's Parents: If a kids parents ask for money...done deal. No need to prove knowledge. The only thing you would have to do is leave a wiggle room for a student with an estranged parent. That shouldn't be difficult to do...student can appeal based on that mitigating factor.
Anyone who accompanies the players recruitment: If you bring someone with you to campus...you are on the hook for their behavior. If you have your crazy Uncle attend your in-home visit...you get him too. Its great if you want your pastor there with you, but you just made him part of your team. If you involve someone other than your coach or your folks in your recruitment in any official capacity, you are responsible for their behavior.
This takes care of the Newtons of the world but also deals with the Greg Robinson/Trevon Reed type stuff as well. Not saying they did anything wrong (Never!) but this way it is very obvious that if you are gonna let some outside friend of the family manage your recruitment then be aware that you are on the hook if he doesn't behave.
In the end it is a statement that their won't be tolerance for funny business and that the student can and should be in control of the decision completely. Its an adult decision about their life.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 12:59 pm to Alahunter
quote:Cam telling a sport's writer doing a puff piece that he let his dad make the decision is not iron clad evidence that Cecil was his agent when he solicited money from MSU. Also, since the solicitation happened before the agency relationship began (according to your undisputed facts) then Cam is not culpable for those acts of his father.
Alahunter
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:00 pm to Alahunter
quote:Ok, well you already said the solicitation happened before that point. So you agree, that Cam is only responsible for what happened fromthat point on?
Cam was 21, an adult. He gave his dad the authority to make the decision where he'd attend. From that point on, Cam is responsible for his dad's actions concerning his recruitment and school of choice.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:02 pm to WDE24
quote:
Also, since the solicitation happened before the agency relationship began (according to your undisputed facts) then Cam is not culpable for those acts of his father.
I said the decision to attend Au was around Christmas. Not when Cam left the decision or where to go up to him. Considering Cecil was the one who decided where he went to Jr College, it's logical and probable that he controlled all decisions since his departure from Florida as based on his actions. He/They set the precedent.
This post was edited on 1/12/11 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:03 pm to Alahunter
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it's logical and probable that he controlled all decisions since his departure from Florida
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:03 pm to Alahunter
quote:
yeah, but Albert didn't know.
That's why he was later able to play at Memphis but was ruled ineligible at Alabama. Had money changed hands Newton would have gotten a suspension no mater what school he went to.
Had Cam gone to MSU and even if no money changed hands he'd be bench for a while. Had talks taken place between Newton and Auburn he'd have been benched for a while. Note I said just talks that is assuming no money changed hands, if money changed hands he is done, a few ways to get some eligibility back but options are limited.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:05 pm to WDE24
Showing your homerism. His dad decided where and what he was doing from the time he left Florida because of his illegal activities and other off the field problems at that time. You don't want to use common sense and want to ignore the obvious. That's ok though, wouldn't expect less.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:05 pm to rangers911
quote:
Had money changed hands Newton would have gotten a suspension no mater what school he went to.
You don't know that they didn't yet. The NCAA doesn't either, hence their investigation continues.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:06 pm to rangers911
You also discount the fact that none of the involved parties got Means to Memphis. Cecil got Cam to Auburn.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:08 pm to Alahunter
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You don't know that they didn't yet. The NCAA doesn't either, hence their investigation continues.
The NCAA President has made such a statement when he commented on Hayden's remarks regarding this issue. He said there was no evidence money changed hands or that Newton or Auburn knew about these talks. He said if money had changed hands the situation would be different. Also MSU has denied that any money changed hands multiple times publicly because if it did they'd be in hot water.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:08 pm to Alahunter
quote:
yeah, but Albert didn't know.
He still played.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:08 pm to Alahunter
You're wasting your breath. Auburn fans will deny to the end that anything was done wrong on their or cam's part. Even if they do get sanctioned, they'll just bitch and moan about how unfair it was. Just nod your head, smile, and be confident, knowing they have zero clue on what it takes to maintain a championship level program. After they return to the land of annual 8-5 seasons, they won't talk as much.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:08 pm to Alahunter
quote:You are an idiot and showing your homerism. I am just pointing out that because of the way agency works in the civil legal world, the NCAA will probably try to amend or further define their rules. I think the NCAA made their decision requiring proof of Cam's knowledge becuase of how agency is treated under the law. You are the one taking quotes from a puff piece to put together the brilliant, yet unproven, theory that the NCAA messed up because you think it is logical and probable that Cecil made all of Cam's decisions since he left Florida.
Showing your homerism. His dad decided where and what he was doing from the time he left Florida because of his illegal activities and other off the field problems at that time. You don't want to use common sense and want to ignore the obvious. That's ok though, wouldn't expect less.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:09 pm to rangers911
He qualified that statement with the words. At this time. The investigation continues and the facts remain that Cecil was given authority by Cam to make the decision of where he went. Cecil admitted to shopping him. That qualifies Cecil as an agent. Especially considering Cam was 21 and an adult at the time it happened.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:12 pm to Alahunter
quote:
He qualified that statement with the words. At this time. The investigation continues and the facts remain that Cecil was given authority by Cam to make the decision of where he went. Cecil admitted to shopping him. That qualifies Cecil as an agent. Especially considering Cam was 21 and an adult at the time it happened.
The NCAA at any time can reopen ANY investigation with new evidence. Right now the NCAA can go back up to 4 years and reopen any investigation if new facts are presented. When he made that statement that means that the NCAA didn't have anything supporting he was paid and didn't expect to find anything either. Sure it is possible but the chance is seen as extremely remote.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:12 pm to WDE24
quote:
You are an idiot and showing your homerism. I am just pointing out that because of the way agency works in the civil legal world, the NCAA will probably try to amend or further define their rules. I think the NCAA made their decision requiring proof of Cam's knowledge becuase of how agency is treated under the law. You are the one taking quotes from a puff piece to put together the brilliant, yet unproven, theory that the NCAA messed up because you think it is logical and probable that Cecil made all of Cam's decisions since he left Florida.
Calm down Phyllis. My stance is shared with multiple news outlets, fan bases and the majority of the country. As I stated earlier today, the NCAA will and does apply their rules in sporadic and unfair ways. Even going so far as to break their own bylaws to nail some programs.
I am a bit flabbergasted that you can't see that Cecil making the decision of where Cam went to Jr. College and then to Auburn makes it very likely and probable that Cam was allowing him to do what he did concerning Miss. St. Denial is strong with you.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:14 pm to WDE24
So your story is that cam, who wanted to attend msu, was cheering for msu at a game, and was headed there, changed his mind on his own, then told cecil or not, but the turned around and stated in an interview that cecil made the call?
They have drugs that help treat these conditions. Seek help.
They have drugs that help treat these conditions. Seek help.
Posted on 1/12/11 at 1:14 pm to rangers911
The investigation isn't reopened. It is continuing. Why would it be continuing if they didn't believe or felt there was more to things than what they were promised by Cam? Perhaps the fact that Cam has been caught in multiple lies gives them some pause as to blindly believe him, at this time.
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