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Posted on 5/18/20 at 2:20 pm to XbengalTiger
Perhaps you also think it said something it didn’t?
Posted on 5/18/20 at 2:20 pm to djsdawg
quote:
It’s certainly didn’t say what you think it said. Presumed cases are likely based on diagnostics, symptoms, autopsy results, and nowhere in what your bold quote did it say otherwise.
And of course you ignore the 5k extra deaths that aren’t included in the covid numbers, and the point that goes along with that.
Why don't you just read the link instead of just assuming whatever you want and saying "likely"?
From the link, right before the part I quoted:
quote:
Deaths for which COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2, or an equivalent term is listed on the death certificate as an immediate, underlying, or contributing cause of death, but that do not have laboratory-confirmation of COVID-19 are classified as probable COVID-19–associated deaths.
It pretty much admits they do what Colorado was doing.
And I didn't ignore the other 5k, I included it in my quote.
This post was edited on 5/18/20 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 5/18/20 at 2:32 pm to 3down10
quote:
Why don't you just read the link instead of just assuming whatever you want and saying "likely"?
Reading the link is what I have done, and your next quote still isn’t saying what you claim it is. Based upon the methods I listed as likely, a doctor can presume covid with or without a viral test proving covid.
quote:
didn't ignore the other 5k, I included it in my quote.
So you acknowledge some of that 5k May have also died with covid but they aren’t included in the numbers, which defeats your whole purpose of whining.
Posted on 5/18/20 at 2:38 pm to djsdawg
quote:
djsdawg
you are afraid of your own shadow.
Posted on 5/18/20 at 2:52 pm to I-59 Tiger
quote:
you are afraid of your own shadow.
Quite the dumb conclusion to reach in a discussion about covid numbers.
Posted on 5/18/20 at 4:07 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Reading the link is what I have done, and your next quote still isn’t saying what you claim it is. Based upon the methods I listed as likely, a doctor can presume covid with or without a viral test proving covid.
From the CDC link.
quote:
Deaths for which COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2, or an equivalent term is listed on the death certificate as an immediate, underlying, or contributing cause of death, but that do not have laboratory-confirmation of COVID-19 are classified as probable COVID-19–associated deaths
So once again, dying with Covid is NOT the same thing as dying from it. They added 5k of those.
Those are 5k deaths they added, they are different from the other 5k you talk about below. You do understand that right? All together it's 10k.
quote:
So you acknowledge some of that 5k May have also died with covid but they aren’t included in the numbers, which defeats your whole purpose of whining.
As they do not have a cause associated with them, I do not know. But obviously it's plausible.
However, given the much higher rate mortality rate in NY, I bet it doesn't outweigh all the ones where people die with covid and were counted rather than those who died because of covid.
But of course, we won't know and it's no surprise that you are so desperate for anything that you want to assume they are.
This post was edited on 5/18/20 at 4:08 pm
Posted on 5/18/20 at 4:23 pm to 3down10
quote:
From the CDC link.
So once again, dying with Covid is NOT the same thing as dying from it. They added 5k of those.
Presumed Based on factors that indicate covid as a COD, just as I said. People who presented with covid symptoms, had lab values indicating covid, and/or an autopsy indicating covid, but never had a covid test done. That’s not fraud.
quote:
they do not have a cause associated with them, I do not know. But obviously it's plausible.
Highly probable considering all the factors. Despite this high probability, you are still unable to accept this point as reasonable.
Posted on 5/18/20 at 4:35 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Presumed Based on factors that indicate covid as a COD, just as I said. People who presented with covid symptoms, had lab values indicating covid, and/or an autopsy indicating covid, but never had a covid test done. That’s not fraud.
So, you think the guy in Colorado who had a BAC of 0.55% being classified as a covid death is not fraud?
Which btw is the way they were told to count them.
quote:
Highly probable considering all the factors. Despite this high probability, you are still unable to accept this point as reasonable.
Maybe if it weren't for the fact that NY has way higher mortality rates than anywhere else. If their rate was below average and they had these, it makes it much more likely.
Posted on 5/18/20 at 5:16 pm to 3down10
quote:
you think the guy in Colorado who had a BAC of 0.55% being classified as a covid death is not fraud?
I haven’t heard of that case. What are the details. Of course pThere will alway be an exception to the rule.
quote:
weren't for the fact that NY has way higher mortality rates than anywhere else.
That number they came up with for excess deaths is based upon normal NY numbers, right? So that variable hasn’t changed. Covid was the new variable that changed.
Posted on 5/18/20 at 5:56 pm to djsdawg
quote:
I haven’t heard of that case. What are the details. Of course pThere will alway be an exception to the rule.
Colorado health officials claimed drunk man died of coronavirus when his blood-alcohol content was seven times the legal limit
The details are - cops find a dead guy. The coroner does an investigation, finds his BAC is 0.55 and he also tests positive for Covid.
The cause of death is then claimed to be Covid. Because that is how they have been telling everyone to count them.
So as I keep saying, dying with covid is not the same thing as dying because of it.
After this case was made public, Colorado stepped in and now they are only allowed to count deaths caused by the covid, not just everyone who tests positive.
They also had to go back and change 31% of their previous deaths for the same reason.
NY does the same bullshite.
quote:
That number they came up with for excess deaths is based upon normal NY numbers, right? So that variable hasn’t changed. Covid was the new variable that changed.
Surely you understand that averages don't mean it's the same amount every year. Some years more, some years less.
And there were many other variables introduced due to the shutdown. I've posted about my mother-in-law previously already.
Posted on 5/18/20 at 7:14 pm to 3down10
quote:
Surely you understand that averages don't mean it's the same amount every year. Some years more, some years less.
And there were many other variables introduced due to the shutdown. I've posted about my mother-in-law previously already.
It is so far above the average that this doesn’t explain it away as you want it to. Insane to think many of those deaths weren’t covid.
Posted on 5/18/20 at 7:23 pm to Rip Torn
quote:
No fans at all is unlikely but it will definitely be different. Even Texas A and M is acknowledging that it will be different, just how different is anyone’s guess but here is another article referencing it
Texas A & M
RA Aggies are going to make sure everyone is standing at home via a 80k Zoom meeting?
Posted on 5/18/20 at 10:53 pm to djsdawg
quote:
It is so far above the average that this doesn’t explain it away as you want it to. Insane to think many of those deaths weren’t covid.
There are lots of deaths for reasons other than covid.
Going by death certificate only on the CDC Website, there have been 877k deaths in the US since Feb 1. Covid makes up only 62k of those deaths. There is some lag in that reporting, about 2 week.
That means 800k people have died for other reasons(more, but again about a 2 week lag). Small upticks in those categories can easily account for the difference. And with people staying home and things being shut down, especially medical care in other areas, they could account for them.
How much - I don't know and neither does anyone else.
But we know it's being over-counted because they are just counting people who die with Covid rather than due to it.
How much - again, it's not really certain, but the average seems to be about 20-30%.
I gave you the Colorado example. That is what all states, including NY are doing because it's how they were told to do it.
LINK
quote:
Dr. Eric France, CDPHE’s chief medical officer, said the state’s surveillance-system reporting is in line with federal guidance and matches how other states are also reporting deaths, allowing for a quick apples-to-apples comparison across states.
But as the article points out, people don't want to know how many people died with it, they want to know how many died because of it.
So thus far in this, we've been feed bullshite mortality rates from the start because they knowingly ignored the 80% of cases not tested.
And then when it comes to reporting the deaths, they've been inflated even further.
It's bullshite and people are getting tired of it. And then people like you blame the people who don't trust the government/numbers rather than the cause of the distrust. There is an actual virus that is actually killing people. People need real information, not bullshite fearmongering.
This post was edited on 5/18/20 at 10:54 pm
Posted on 5/19/20 at 8:45 am to 3down10
quote:
So thus far in this, we've been feed bullshite mortality rates from the start because they knowingly ignored the 80% of cases not tested.
And then when it comes to reporting the deaths, they've been inflated even further.
It's bullshite and people are getting tired of it. And then people like you blame the people who don't trust the government/numbers rather than the cause of the distrust. There is an actual virus that is actually killing people. People need real information, not bullshite fearmongering.
Quit frankly, I've had it with this shite. If people are afraid and fearful for their safety then they need to protect themselves and stay home. The entire country has been well educated and cautioned to the extreme and they can now for themselves how they want to live.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 11:26 am to 3down10
quote:
As I said, there is a difference between dying with covid and dying because of Covid. Colorado had to revise it's numbers and took away about 300 deaths out of like 1000 total. The exact numbers came out to they were over-counting by 31%.
Gonna need a lot more info on this. 30% seems like an absurd amount.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 11:31 am to 3down10
quote:
Small upticks in those categories can easily account for the difference. And with people staying home and things being shut down, especially medical care in other areas, they could account for them.
5k in 8 weeks in one city would require large, not small, upticks in those categories. Thats unlikely. We know there was a large uptick in covid during this time period in this location, so it stands to reason many of these unaccounted for deaths were related to COVID, which counters a lot of the "over counting" you whine about. Point is, some are counted that shouldn't be, and some are missed that shouldn't be. For you to act like this is one sided is a bit silly.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 11:32 am to RT1941
quote:
If people are afraid and fearful for their safety then they need to protect themselves and stay home. The entire country has been well educated and cautioned to the extreme and they can now for themselves how they want to live.
We would be so much better off if everyone protected themselves while out in public. Any gun owner should understand this.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 12:29 pm to 3down10
It’s amazing to read all of the ignorant posts n this forum. Countless medical, epidemiology, public health and microbiology experts have provided consistent rationale for the precautions that have been enacted.
State health officials from both red and blue states have documented the cause of deaths in COVID patients using specific criteria. Scientific American has reported that the death rate is probably understated.
The incidence of cases and deaths only tells part of the story. There are many layers to the Corona virus disease. Many of you can’t see past your nose.
You follow the science!!
State health officials from both red and blue states have documented the cause of deaths in COVID patients using specific criteria. Scientific American has reported that the death rate is probably understated.
The incidence of cases and deaths only tells part of the story. There are many layers to the Corona virus disease. Many of you can’t see past your nose.
You follow the science!!
Posted on 5/19/20 at 1:30 pm to JohnnyU
quote:
You follow the science!!
Better to follow the money.
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