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re: Les Miles -- good, lucky, or bad coach?
Posted on 5/16/11 at 12:58 pm to Tigerfan56
Posted on 5/16/11 at 12:58 pm to Tigerfan56
The man averages 10 wins a year while facing an SEC schedule,that tells me all i need to know as far as him being a damn good coach.../thread..
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Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:00 pm to WDE24
quote:
The argument that was going on related to whether Les has a good record due to talent, his coaching or a combination of the two. With Les, there is enough evidence for a reasonable person to argue that it is mostly due to superior talent and his coaching is mediocre. That may not be true, but his decision making has been consistently poor enough for someone to reasonably argue it.
Can you name these decisions?
y'all are missing the point. Someone has to coach this talent. Kids don't come straight out of high school and win 60+ games by themselves. Why is this so hard for some of you to understand? Also....every coach that has ever won anything of significance has had talent.
Talent doesn't win without coaching....coaches don't win without talent. Especially in the SEC.
This post was edited on 5/16/11 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:07 pm to WDE24
quote:
Jim Harbaugh
Gary Patterson
Kyle Wittingham
Chip Kelly
Stanford hasn't won shite.
TCU plays in an inferior conference - and what have they actually won outside of their conference?
Utah's main claim to fame was beating Alabama - once. Again a good program in an inferior conference.
Kelly's been at Oregon for two years. Let's see what he's done after 6. Hell, after 2 years at LSU, Miles actually WON his BCS-NC.
Put any of those coaches in the SEC with inferior talent, and they'd look like Dan Mullen - a good coach who can't quite overcome the talent edge.
Would any of those coaches have done better at LSU than Miles in the same time frame? Maybe, but not by much. They'd still have to go up against Alabama and Florida every season.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:08 pm to TT9
quote:
The man averages 10 wins a year while facing an SEC schedule,that tells me all i need to know as far as him being a damn good coach.../thread..
I want him to go from damn good to great.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:12 pm to WDE24
quote:
With Les, there is enough evidence for a reasonable person to argue that it is mostly due to superior talent and his coaching is mediocre.
Superior talent to who? Is LSU really more talented then Alabama or Florida? Two teams LSU beat last year. shite ya'll make it sound like LSU recruits nothing but NFL superstars. There is not a big talent difference between the top 5 or 6 schools in the SEC, why is Miles the only coach that is so heavily criticized by how he wins?
Apparently, LSU has all of this NFL superstar caliber talent, but Les Miles holds them back.
This post was edited on 5/16/11 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:13 pm to Tigerfan56
Good Coach
Great Recruiter
Players love him
Lucky (but refer back to the saying...."you make your own luck")
LSU is lucky to have him
Great Recruiter
Players love him
Lucky (but refer back to the saying...."you make your own luck")
LSU is lucky to have him
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:13 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:That was the only point. We were discussing Mile's coaching ability and trying to strip away the fact that at LSU he has had the luxury of great talent. As I have said repeatedly, it is hard to argue with his W/L record, but there are other ways one might measure coaching ability where a coach is forced to do more with less talent than LSU has.
Would any of those coaches have done better at LSU than Miles in the same time frame? Maybe, but not by much.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:14 pm to WDE24
i just hope he never leaves because he makes LSU the most fun team to watch. they are also the funniest team to beat and the most agonizing to lose to because of that.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:17 pm to WDE24
quote:
We were discussing Mile's coaching ability and trying to strip away the fact that at LSU he has had the luxury of great talent.
Can you name me a few coaches that have won anything of significance without having talent?
This post was edited on 5/16/11 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:17 pm to Choctaw
quote:There have been several clock mishaps (UT comes to mind) as well as throwing a fade route as time was winding down against AU and all you needed was a field goal. Plenty of arguably unnecessary risks that ultimately mostly worked out in LSU's favor. Obviously if they hadn't worked out, luck wouldn't even be an option to choose from.
Can you name these decisions?
These decisions are what make people question Les. It is not just opposing fans, it is talked about repeatedly among analysts as well. Add to that all of his crazy quotes and people, IMO, can reasonably question his ability. However, I acknowledge that the more he wins, the harder it becomes to reasonably question him.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:22 pm to WDE24
quote:
There have been several clock mishaps (UT comes to mind)
there have been 2. And the UT game was on Crowton because he tried to make substitutions
quote:
well as throwing a fade route as time was winding down against AU and all you needed was a field goal
that field goal was a 40 yarder from the hash marks with a struggling kicker. Not the chip shot some make it out to be. And there was still time to kick it.
quote:
Plenty of arguably unnecessary risks that ultimately mostly worked out in LSU's favor. Obviously if they hadn't worked out, luck wouldn't even be an option to choose from.
These decisions are what make people question Les
name some.....you said he consistently made bad decisions. There should more than just a few obvious ones in 6 years than...right? Hell...i can name more than that for Saban.
quote:
Add to that all of his crazy quotes and people, IMO, can reasonably question his ability
what doesn having trouble talking in front of cameras have to do with coaching ability? If you ever heard him talk at a function you'd know better.
quote:
However, I acknowledge that the more he wins, the harder it becomes to reasonably question him.
no shite...huh?
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:25 pm to WDE24
quote:
There have been several clock mishaps (UT comes to mind)
There have been two: Ole Miss and UT
quote:
as well as throwing a fade route as time was winding down against AU and all you needed was a field goal.
If that ball falls incomplete there was still 2 seconds on the clock.
quote:
Plenty of arguably unnecessary risks that ultimately mostly worked out in LSU's favor. Obviously if they hadn't worked out, luck wouldn't even be an option to choose from.
Unnecessary? Nah. And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle..... or my aunt with balls.
quote:
These decisions are what make people question Les. It is not just opposing fans, it is talked about repeatedly among analysts as well. Add to that all of his crazy quotes and people, IMO, can reasonably question his ability. However, I acknowledge that the more he wins, the harder it becomes to reasonably question him.
He keeps LSU in the spotlight even when we're not suppose to be. I like that. The goofy fricker just knows how to win ball games.
This post was edited on 5/16/11 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:34 pm to WDE24
quote:How much better could they do?
That was the only point. We were discussing Mile's coaching ability and trying to strip away the fact that at LSU he has had the luxury of great talent. As I have said repeatedly, it is hard to argue with his W/L record, but there are other ways one might measure coaching ability where a coach is forced to do more with less talent than LSU has.
Look at Spurrier at Florida during the 90's. The league wasn't NEARLY as competitive then as it is now, and even the great Evil Genius has never had an undefeated season.
Recruiting is an important factor in coaching. Could any of those other coaches go into the homes of these Louisiana recruits and land the classes that Miles has? That is, maybe if they were coaching at LSU, their recruiting wouldn't be as good and therefore they wouldn't have the talent that Miles does.
So to say that Miles does less with his talent overlooks the fact that HE'S responsible for bringing that talent in in the first place.
Look at Arnsparger at LSU. was he better than Miles? Maybe on gameday, but given 6 years at LSU I bet the talent level would've dropped under Arnsparger thereby making it more difficult for him to win, and thus ending up with fewer wins than Miles has in his 6 years at LSU.
At some point you have to credit that aspect of Miles' coaching acumen - the ability to recruit. It's no accident that he has so much talent, and that takes a lot of hard work.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 1:47 pm to WDE24
quote:
throwing a fade route as time was winding down against AU and all you needed was a field goal.
What has a better chance of success to win a game:
1.) letting the clock wind down and putting the whole game on your kicker's foot
or
2.) getting two plays off, one a quick pass to the end zone. If it falls incomplete, you get time to put the game on your kicker, if you hit the HR, you win.
At the time, the second choice was OBVIOUS (there would've been some 3 seconds on the clock if the pass failed). There was plenty of time for two plays. It was 3rd and 7 with 39 seconds left and LSU holding one timeout.
Part of the excitement was Flynn holding the ball a bit too long, but watch the play, the catch was made in the endzone with 3 seconds left on the clock.
LINK
the grief Miles gets for that call is undeserved.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 2:00 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
He got greif because he stopped winning. Period.
8-5 and 9-4 in this conference pisses people off.
One thing that does stand out... he has not won the west in 3 years. If that doesn't change, then people will continue to be unhappy.
In those 3 years, he is 8-7 against the west and 14-10 against the SEC as a whole.
If that doesn't improve, his seat will continue to stay decently warm, considering his overall success.
8-5 and 9-4 in this conference pisses people off.
One thing that does stand out... he has not won the west in 3 years. If that doesn't change, then people will continue to be unhappy.
In those 3 years, he is 8-7 against the west and 14-10 against the SEC as a whole.
If that doesn't improve, his seat will continue to stay decently warm, considering his overall success.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 2:10 pm to slayerxing
quote:
He got greif because he stopped winning. Period.
No, I mean the grief he got immediately following that game.
Any other coach would've gone for a pass in that situation as well, but Miles does it and people start saying how reckless a decision it was - even though it won the freakin game.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 2:14 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
I see Les as a much better version of Nutt...he recruits as well as anyone in the country, gets his guys up for the big games, probably has too big of a hand with the offense, and is completely unpredictable.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 2:18 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
I havent read this thread but my opinion is that he is both good and lucky. He is a risk taker, he gambles, but they are calculated risks, and he is lucky enough that it usualy pans out for him. Sometimes it bites him the arse, although not often.
You cant have the record he has and not be good. Luck only goes so far, of course the said can be said for being good. He has both, LSU is lucky to have him as a coach IMO.
Nicky is still better though.
You cant have the record he has and not be good. Luck only goes so far, of course the said can be said for being good. He has both, LSU is lucky to have him as a coach IMO.
Nicky is still better though.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 2:32 pm to slayerxing
quote:
He got greif because he stopped winning. Period.
8-5 and 9-4 in this conference pisses people off.
One thing that does stand out... he has not won the west in 3 years. If that doesn't change, then people will continue to be unhappy.
In those 3 years, he is 8-7 against the west and 14-10 against the SEC as a whole.
If that doesn't improve, his seat will continue to stay decently warm, considering his overall success.
^This X 1000
Miles received a shitload of grief from his own fanbase because of the very things you mentioned above.
Losing to Houston Nutt three years straight pissed many fans off. In addition to that, he was 8-8 in SEC games in '08/'09.
IMO, Miles will need to win the West this year, or LSU fans will be gunnin for him just like they were this same time last year.
Hell, I remember Miles takin a dig at the LSU fanbase last season when he had LSU @ 5-0.
Posted on 5/16/11 at 2:40 pm to RT1941
quote:
In addition to that, he was 8-8 in SEC games in '08/'09.
he had just kicked off his star QB and the #1 recruit in the country.....the people that didn't expect some sort of drop off are just stupid. It happens almost every year to a big name school for one reason or another.
quote:
Hell, I remember Miles takin a dig at the LSU fanbase last season when he had LSU @ 5-0.
He was taking a dig at the rantards. Don't lump us all in with those morons
This post was edited on 5/16/11 at 2:42 pm
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