re: Is Saban a just above average coach propped by the best players in CFB?

You'll find out soon enough!

Weird. Recruiting good players is important in college football. Who knew?

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GOAT recruiter but not GOAT Coach.

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This. He said as much during his initial talks with Mal Moore. That said, you are talking about his ability as an Xs and Os coach.

To me, that is not Saban at this stage. As a HC, he assumes a CEO role. He manages the structure of the system, provides the vision and places others in position to execute his intent. His success in that aspect is unparalleled.

The success he has maintained for a decade plus in recruiting (a primary job of all CFB coaches - consistently piling up #1 classes and managing egos when 5*s know they will have to compete and maybe wait to play), adapting with the game, and maintaining consistent success through constant staff turnover is remarkable.

Saban maintains oversight of the entire program. When given time to prepare or adjust to a lesson learned, he is almost unbeatable. His struggles have changed when something new is injected into the system that he has not experienced or accounted for. Early signing period in recruiting was an adjustment; how to manage prep efforts for a 2 round playoff was a challenge and bit them in the butt vs tOSU as he lacked the laser focus on a single team; the short prep period for the finals is still something I don't think his process has fully adapted to. But, it will improve each year as he is strong at adaptation.

People often default to recency bias to discredit how good of a "coach" Saban is, but forget about 2008 and 2009. Those teams had some young, raw talent but were not 3 deep with 4*s all over the field. And, they coached them up pretty well to win the 2009 title and be very competitive in 2008. 2011 GOT Century Pts I and II were pretty evenly matched, and Saban's ability to learn and adapt reflected in the second game. That is good coaching against equal talent.

That said, yes, likely an avg to above avg hands on Xs and Os coach who needs adequate time to prep players and scheme to dominate big game matchups. Yes, his success is largely predicated on his talent level (a coaching tale as old as time). But his ability to recruit and manage that talent is an aspect of coaching, and he is elite at that.

So, verdict... the proof is in the pudding. Dominant performance with 5 NCs in 10 yrs (on the cusp of multiple others) throughout recruiting changes, conference expansions, transfer/eligibility rules advancements, coach turnover, and championship format changes. He is an elite HC. All time great.

This has never been a question. When he didn't have the talent he was a 3 loss coach and if a game comes down to his decision making then he usually loses. They keep blaming it on players getting hurt but a good coach with that many 5*s wouldn't have that much drop off when coaches with 2 and 3*s can field a quality team. That's all on his poor coaching and shows his need for players that make him look better. Lots of coaches could win as much or more with that much talent handed to them. They wouldn't have been embarrassed like they were against Clemson with more talent. That again was all on him.

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Saban took a 4-12 team to 9-7. Could not get the QB he needed and went 6-10.

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Then he quit