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re: I'd like to trade Pete Golding
Posted on 9/22/21 at 10:56 am to bamameister
Posted on 9/22/21 at 10:56 am to bamameister
quote:
You are picking your stats in this argument. The fact is that points will be given up, but the defensive effort and knowing your assignment is what it's about.
BAMA was only the best defensive team in the SEC, 13th in the country in 2020. But you knew that when you threw it out there.
On talent alone, BAMA will overwhelm offenses that pose no schematic risk to our DC. For the Mullens, Kiffin's out there we will always have OCs who can outmaneuver Golding's Xs and Os. And even with 2 seasoned ILBers, who are on the Butkus list, they still look like freshmen against these OCs. Those teams are where Golding continues to show the same disappointing results.
By the way, Jeremy Pruitt finished the 2016 season for BAMA as the #1 defensive team in the country. And with all the injuries we encountered in 2017, Pruitt still had the #1 defense in the nation and a national championship.
Golding hasn't been in the top 10 yet, in any year.
What stats are you quoting? Because Alabama hasn't been outside the top10 defensively under Golding in any year.
SP+ rankings:
2019: #3 overall defense
2020: #6 overall defense
0
Posted on 9/22/21 at 11:44 am to 1BamaRTR
quote:
What a lame rebuttal. I could say the same about almost everything you say after this. But I’m not going to because I agree context matters. I also know you agree defensive scores matter because you say Mac’s pick-sixes cost Bama in the IB. Otherwise you’re seriously telling me a defense that forces turnovers and scores TD doesn’t matter at all. I know you’re not that dumb.
So you would have been ok with Alabama's defensive performance if they had managed to score a TD this weekend? Personally I would have not. That performance was terrible and while some defensive TDs would have been an upside, giving up 200 yards rushing is never acceptable.
quote:
Actually I blame Sark for that game. Horrible play calling by him to give Jacobs and Harris a combined 6 carries and making Hurts throw too much. Even though he knew Hurts was struggling.
I could ask you something similar. Why is it you so vehemently defend Golding’s defense in the 2019 losses, but never apply that same level in defending Bama’s defense in 2016? YOU yourself basically just said the circumstances are similar in both games. Yet you defend the defense in one and attack them in the other.
But here’s the thing, I never said it was all Golding’s fault. You agree context matters. I also agree it does. I think the offense made plenty of mistakes in both 2019 losses. Just like I think the defense could’ve been more consistent in those 2016 games.
I think by metrics Pruitt’s defenses were better. I’m not arguing for Golding to be fired. I didn’t even say he sucks, just that I think Pruitt is better. Though I would prefer if Saban consider making Golding focus solely on the defense while someone else took over the ILB coaching.
I’m arguing that I think that even 2016 Pruitt was better. It wasn’t “1 vs 3” either. Because you although you agree, you don’t use the same excuses for Pruitt’s defenses they you do for Golding’s. A bit weird.
Every DC out there, including Pruitt has had bad games/defenses.
At any rate, Saban on his show pretty much laid out the problem, and it was that they weren't expecting Florida to run the option and wasn't prepared for it. Mullen figured it out in the 2nd quarter and spent the rest of the game exploiting it. Last year Florida threw for a shite ton of yards.
Along with intensity of course. Which is really about effort. Against option football you have to be disciplined and they lacked that as well.
quote:
Good shite
Everyone else is being a baby but when you do it, it’s you “speaking your mind”.
Again my argument here is that Pruitt is better.
Not sure what to tell you, when I call someone a dumbass it's not because I'm upset, it's because - they probably said some stupid shite. Can't help it if people have thin skin, but I personally quit giving a frick if people are offended. I'm gonna tell the truth and I'm not just talking about Alabama football.
I grew up on sticks and stones.
Alabama fans are acting like big babies and have for the past 3 years they've thought they knew better than Saban, despite winning a national championship last year.
It's week3. Thus far Alabama is breaking in a bunch of new players as always, and has had to play 2 P5 teams, only 1 cupcake. Just maybe people should see how the season plays out before spewing their bullshite.
Either way, I'll continue to call it like I see it - as I always have.
I don't know why people think Nick Saban is lying when he addresses these things, or why they think they know better than him. Personally, I'll just keep listening to what he says, rather than a bunch of butthurt fans.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 11:48 am to BFANLC
quote:
Bama will give you 1 five star, 1 four star, and a win in the future to be named at a later date (after Saban retires) if you take Pete Golding off our hands now.
Done and done.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 12:15 pm to 3down10
quote:
So you would have been ok with Alabama's defensive performance if they had managed to score a TD this weekend?
I am saying you cannot ignore defensive TDs and turnovers. They do make a big impact on the game. The lone turnover they had against UF resulted in an easy TD drive.
quote:
Every DC out there, including Pruitt has had bad games/defenses.
But Pruitt as a whole was much better. Which is my point. Both of his defenses were ranked no.1 by the SP+ ratings you brought up. The 2017 one was the highest rated defense under Saban. There’s a difference between no.1 and no.3 or no.7. That 2016 defense had a rating of 8.6 while that 2018 defense had one of 14.2.
quote:It’s projection on your part. You call people fragile crybabies when you are doing the same thing. You want to have your opinions? Fine. But don’t complain when others “speak their mind” too.
Not sure what to tell you, when I call someone a dumbass it's not because I'm upset, it's because
quote:
or why they think they know better than him.
As already established, no one is perfect. Every great has made mistakes. Doesn’t mean we know more then him, but he has made mistakes before. I would prefer someone else took on the ILB coaching duties but I’m not advocating for Golding to be fired. I’m not saying the defense isn’t going to get at least a little better.
My whole point is questioning why you shite and are hypercritical of the 2016 defense and Pruitt, but don’t do the same for Golding’s defenses.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 12:26 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
I am saying you cannot ignore defensive TDs and turnovers. They do make a big impact on the game. The lone turnover they had against UF resulted in an easy TD drive.
Yeah, but you still gave up 200 yards rushing and couldn't stop the run. You can't count on turnovers.
quote:
But Pruitt as a whole was much better. Which is my point. Both of his defenses were ranked no.1 by the SP+ ratings you brought up. The 2017 one was the highest rated defense under Saban. There’s a difference between no.1 and no.3 or no.7. That 2016 defense had a rating of 8.6 while that 2018 defense had one of 14.2.
I'm a big fan of Pruitt, but the situations just have not been the same.
quote:
It’s projection on your part. You call people fragile crybabies when you are doing the same thing. You want to have your opinions? Fine. But don’t complain when others “speak their mind” too.
You are the one who brought it up. I don't complain, I just tell them they are a dumbass while at the same time telling them why. There is a reason why I generally don't like Alabama fans.
quote:
As already established, no one is perfect. Every great has made mistakes. Doesn’t mean we know more then him, but he has made mistakes before. I would prefer someone else took on the ILB coaching duties but I’m not advocating for Golding to be fired. I’m not saying the defense isn’t going to get at least a little better.
Not a single person on this forum has even a remote clue what really goes on. Don't even have 1% of the information that Nick Saban has. Only some pretend to.
And what you say about Saban making mistakes is entirely my point - he will fix them if he does.
Does anyone listen to what he actually says?
quote:
My whole point is questioning why you shite and are hypercritical of the 2016 defense and Pruitt, but don’t do the same for Golding’s defenses.
People pretend Pruitt was prefect and have selective memory. If I could pick any DC it would be Pruitt, but people forget the times the defense struggled under him, and he didn't have any where near the same problems Alabama has been dealing with.
It's like SoS. You have to take into account the circumstances around it.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 12:31 pm to 3down10
TBH the only position coach on D right now that has his group playing at a elite level is Sal with the OLB's.
The rest of the position groups are either playing with poor effort, bad execution or both
The rest of the position groups are either playing with poor effort, bad execution or both
Posted on 9/22/21 at 12:40 pm to 3down10
quote:
Yeah, but you still gave up 200 yards rushing and couldn't stop the run. You can't count on turnovers.
But if they happened, they happened. You can’t act like they didn’t, and you can’t evaluating a defensive which is what I was doing. A defense that gave up 20 points and had one defensive TD have a better performance then an defense that gave up just 20.
quote:
I'm a big fan of Pruitt, but the situations just have not been the same.
So did Pruitt not have tough circumstances in 2017 with multiple injuries? By every metric, Pruitt has been better. Smart was too.
quote:
You are the one who brought it up.
I’m not the one going around calling people babies for having their opinions and then saying “I’m just saying my part”.
quote:
People pretend Pruitt was prefect and have selective memory. If I could pick any DC it would be Pruitt, but people forget the times the defense struggled under him, and he didn't have any where near the same problems Alabama has been dealing with.
No he wasn’t perfect. But...
quote:
You have to take into account the circumstances around it.
Yeah context. That’s what I have been talking about the whole time. And that applies to Pruitt’s “bad performances” too. Doesn’t mean he was blameless in these games but there were other notable factors that contributed to the mistakes and issues.
This post was edited on 9/22/21 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 9/22/21 at 12:42 pm to 3down10
quote:
People pretend Pruitt was prefect and have selective memory. If I could pick any DC it would be Pruitt, but people forget the times the defense struggled under him, and he didn't have any where near the same problems Alabama has been dealing with.
No one is looking for perfection in this era of college football.
A great head coach once said that when a player is confused and unsure he's running about 2/3 speed. At that point 4 and 5-star athletes look exactly like 2 and 3-star athletes on the field of play.
And I'm tired of looking at it.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 1:10 pm to bamameister
quote:
No one is looking for perfection in this era of college football.
A great head coach once said that when a player is confused and unsure he's running about 2/3 speed. At that point 4 and 5-star athletes look exactly like 2 and 3-star athletes on the field of play.
And I'm tired of looking at it.
And that is all Goldings fault how? Just because that's as far up the tree as most Alabama fans have the balls to lay blame?
Are you suggesting that Saban is unaware of what's going on with the team and the quality/type of coaching they are getting? Did he stop having a hand in all these things?
Or was it maybe week3, with a bunch of newer players who are still learning having the other team start playing an unexpected style of game in the middle of it? Because that's what Saban said.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 1:12 pm to 3down10
Hell, OP, I'd trade him for a lukewarm Natty Lite. That's about all he's worth.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 1:15 pm to ClintStoerner
You should be more pissed at Phil he knew this was going on fay Phil really messed you guys up
Posted on 9/22/21 at 1:18 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
But if they happened, they happened. You can’t act like they didn’t, and you can’t evaluating a defensive which is what I was doing. A defense that gave up 20 points and had one defensive TD have a better performance then an defense that gave up just 20.
While you can force turnovers and you can increase the odds for them, for the most part you can't count on them. If you just want to look at the results, then Alabama won.
Like when Alabama turned the ball over 5 times to Ole Miss that one year. You can't expect that to always happen, so you focus on the stats otherwise.
quote:
So did Pruitt not have tough circumstances in 2017 with multiple injuries? By every metric, Pruitt has been better. Smart was too.
Nothing compares to 2019 on the injury scale. Our starting mike was Shane Lee. A true freshman, due to the multiple injures at the same position. This is the guy who calls defenses and is the QB of the defense.
2 years later and the same person is not even on the 2 deep for the position.
At any rate, I am not trying to compare the DCs, I'm trying to point out that even the best ones have bad games.
quote:
I’m not the one going around calling people babies for having their opinions and then saying “I’m just saying my part”.
No, you're going around crying because I called people babies. Get thicker skin and stop worrying about someone on the internet being blunt.
quote:
Yeah context. That’s what I have been talking about the whole time. And that applies to Pruitt’s “bad performances” too. Doesn’t mean he was blameless in these games but there were other notable factors that contributed to the mistakes and issues.
Again, I think you are trying to compare the DCs overall and I am not.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 1:26 pm to 3down10
quote:
While you can force turnovers and you can increase the odds for them, for the most part you can't count on them. If you just want to look at the results, then Alabama won.
I’m looking at performances in individual games. I’m saying that a defense that scores a TD and gives up 23 points in non-garbage time has better overall performance then one that does they without scoring a TD. I’m referring to individual games that have already been played and evaluating their overall performance.
quote:
Nothing compares to 2019 on the injury scale.
There’s still 2018 and 2020.
quote:
I'm trying to point out that even the best ones have bad games.
I’m not disagreeing with you.
quote:If you look at my original response. That’s what I was doing. That was my whole point which means we shouldn’t even be having this discussion. I said I would prefer Pruitt. I didn’t say Golding was horrible. I didn’t say Pruitt was perfect. We don’t disagree as much as it has seemed.
Again, I think you are trying to compare the DCs overall and I am not.
quote:Same to you
Get thicker skin and stop worrying about someone on the internet being blunt.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 1:32 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
I’m looking at performances in individual games. I’m saying that a defense that scores a TD and gives up 23 points in non-garbage time has better overall performance then one that does they without scoring a TD. I’m referring to individual games that have already been played and evaluating their overall performance.
Yeah the result is great. But it's 1 play among 50-80.
It's kind of like explosive plays vs long scoring drives. Explosive plays are great, but if you live on them you end up with 44-16.
quote:
There’s still 2018 and 2020.
Golding wasn't the DC in 2018.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 1:41 pm to 3down10
quote:
Yeah the result is great. But it's 1 play among 50-80.
So is every long TD on offense or ST but they still count. Yeah I agree explosive plays aren’t reliable as you stated below. But they’re also not worthless. They fall in between. That’s my point.
quote:
Golding wasn't the DC in 2018.
He was the ILB coach and was the co-DC.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 1:46 pm to 3down10
The Pruitt vs Golding DC comparison is laughable
Pruitt has had a top 10 D at 3 different Power 5 schools
#1 2013 FSU
#7 2015 UGA
#1 2016 UA
#1 2017 UA
Golding
#15 2019 UA
#13 2020 UA
#37 currently for UA 2021
Pruitt has had a top 10 D at 3 different Power 5 schools
#1 2013 FSU
#7 2015 UGA
#1 2016 UA
#1 2017 UA
Golding
#15 2019 UA
#13 2020 UA
#37 currently for UA 2021
This post was edited on 9/22/21 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 9/22/21 at 2:05 pm to DP4Tide
Cannot understand the Golding/Saban thang. Does Pete have some dirt on Nick? I do not care for the coaches not taking responsibility for the play against Florida. If Bear was still the coach he would own it and he would have fired Golding a long time ago.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 3:38 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
So is every long TD on offense or ST but they still count. Yeah I agree explosive plays aren’t reliable as you stated below. But they’re also not worthless. They fall in between. That’s my point.
They are far from worthless, but when you are looking at team strength it's just near impossible to quantify.
On the one hand we'd like it to happen on the first play of every drive. Nothing could be better. On the other hand, you can't count on it and have to be able to stop the other team.
To me, they are like a bonus.
quote:
He was the ILB coach and was the co-DC.
Yeah, I'm not sure what that really means though as far as responsibility.
I do know that Saban seems to value him pretty highly. And until I see Saban blaming coaching more than anything, I'm going to assume when Saban talks about the players, he is telling the truth.
Posted on 9/22/21 at 3:41 pm to DP4Tide
quote:
The Pruitt vs Golding DC comparison is laughable
Pruitt has had a top 10 D at 3 different Power 5 schools
#1 2013 FSU
#7 2015 UGA
#1 2016 UA
#1 2017 UA
Golding
#15 2019 UA
#13 2020 UA
#37 currently for UA 2021
Not meant to be a comparison, only an example of the times Pruitt has struggled.
But those stats are pretty trash.
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