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re: Does anyone really believe Auburn isn't dirty?
Posted on 1/23/11 at 9:45 pm to Jaydeaux
Posted on 1/23/11 at 9:45 pm to Jaydeaux
quote:
Jay Jacobs = Bill Clinton
are you fricking kidding me? Cecil agreed not to attend the game but he came in after and was in the stands for Scam to hug?
it's a matter of time folks
Jay Jacobs=Bill Clinton? What in the hell is that supposed to mean?
Cecil showed up after the game so Auburn is going to get the death penalty? You are the personification of genetic decay.
"It's just a matter of time." Finally! Evidence. You see, "it's just a matter of time". Well, that's evidence enough for me. I guess Cam and Auburn are guilty. Take down the flag, cry a few tears, anoint Saban the Christ-incarnate and jerk it to old Who's the Boss re-runs on superstation until shake-weight infommercials come on!
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Posted on 1/23/11 at 9:45 pm to tkane311
quote:
convictions in the court of public opinion t
I dont want convictions I just want the piss being called rain to stop.
A convicion in the court of public opinion isn't even close to trying to pretend Cam didn't know daddy was shopping him or making him go to AU for a "big" reason.
You're all in, don't try and act like you're also innocent, you're not you're OJ
Posted on 1/23/11 at 9:47 pm to tkane311
quote:
True...and you can say that for how many more months? And what did they get caught for? I am not nearly as educated on this as I am the Cam thing but isn't it something like an offer for a loan and a gift of some frozen steaks but the general acknowledgment that there was more? I mean..it was bad..but it was 18 years ago.
No it wasn't like that. The NCAA found six major violations including cash payments. The Albert Means things happened in 1999. That has been over 10 years but it is still recent history.
quote:
I know it...and I don't like it...but do you hear Yale boasting about all the national championships that they have won or did they quit that a few decades after it became irrelevant?
What does Yale claiming championships have to do with Auburn having a history of NCAA infractions?
quote:
He's never left the program? Have the Bama fans burnt a Bear effigy and hung him from the crapstone for his cheating? He's an icon...of course not. But no, he is dead so he is not associated. But if he was alive do you think Alabama would distance themselves from him?
Dye was forced to resign due the Eric Ramsey investigation. His coaching staff caused huge sanctions including a bowl ban.
Bear Bryant never caused Alabama to have a bowl ban due to cheating. Your argument doesn't make sense.
quote:
Yes and no. I don't think it's odd because I understand jealousy and the degree to which people can jedi-mind frick themselves into believing what makes them comfortable. Yes because there is no evidence in the last (I guess) 18-19 years sufficient to even warrant an investigation of Auburn paying players...what happened before Einstein developed the theory of relativity doesn't interest me and shouldn't interest anyone else.
If you don't think Pat Dye, Colonial Bank, and Cecil Newton are enough evidence to at least investigate, then I don't know what to tell you. You obviously don't even know Auburn's history, based on your previous posts, yet you blindly defend them.
I'm not saying Auburn is guilty of anything but it is obviously worth investigating much like the Reggie Bush situation was. USC fans defended their University blindly as well. I'll leave the investigating up to the NCAA.
Posted on 1/23/11 at 9:52 pm to tkane311
quote:
My point is this. Do you really want the standard of jumping to conclusions+automatic convictions in the court of public opinion to be....recent trouble? Because it seems to me that this is the last thing a Bama fan would want....I mean, you are really swinging for the fences with this one.
I never said that, however when you have a history you should be looked at. I don't want a system that suits my team, I want a system that is fair. It has nothing to do with "the last thing a Bama fan would want."
quote:
If this does happen, my fond memories of this season are pretty much shot to hell and I would personally throw gasoline on that championship banner and call for everyone involved to be ousted permanently.
Pat Dye cheated and he wasn't ousted permanently.
quote:
But the more time ticks away, the more it appears that this will never happen...which on one hand made it difficult to savor the moment, but will help the taste linger.
The Reggie Bush case took years. This will probably take years as well. I don't know the outcome but the NCAA isn't quick regardless.
Posted on 1/23/11 at 9:52 pm to arwicklu
quote:
I think Auburn is dumb to have Pat Dye associated with the program. After the Eric Ramsey stuff they should not have let him back anywhere near the team. It is amazing that they named a field after the guy.
This from a fan of a team whose CURRENT athletic director was sitting in the room while the Albert Means hanky-panky was going on. Oh, the irony!
Posted on 1/23/11 at 10:02 pm to beatbammer
quote:
This from a fan of a team whose CURRENT athletic director was sitting in the room while the Albert Means hanky-panky was going on. Oh, the irony!
Mal Moore did not get connected to the Means case. He was a witness for the prosecution in the case against Logan Young. He was friends with Logan Young which isn't a crime.
Posted on 1/23/11 at 10:12 pm to arwicklu
quote:
No it wasn't like that. The NCAA found six major violations including cash payments
$200?
quote:
Albert Means
$200,000
quote:I'll explain this to you assuming you are as dumb as you are appearing to be. Yale national championships happened a long time ago and are thus irrelevant. You seem to be a purveyor of old Auburn lore, so tell me the last time prior to Eric Ramsey that Auburn was in any trouble with the NCAA? From memory? Don't remember? Neither do I and neither does anyone else..much like no one remembers when Yale was relevant in football.
quote:
I know it...and I don't like it...but do you hear Yale boasting about all the national championships that they have won or did they quit that a few decades after it became irrelevant?
What does Yale claiming championships have to do with Auburn having a history of NCAA infractions?
quote:
Dye was forced to resign due the Eric Ramsey investigation. His coaching staff caused huge sanctions including a bowl ban.
Bear Bryant never caused Alabama to have a bowl ban due to cheating. Your argument doesn't make sense.
Everybody knows Bear cheated. What? Saying "everybody knows" doesn't=evidence and/or truth? Hey, you assholes set the standard not me. Bear=cheater by your standard. Hence, the sum of his legitimate+illegitimate national championships are worthless.
quote:
If you don't think Pat Dye, Colonial Bank, and Cecil Newton are enough evidence to at least investigate
Don't ask me, ask the NCAA. That has been their opinion so far.
quote:I know Auburn's history as long as I have been paying attention ( nearly 20 years ) but I didn't have a timeline handy and could not care less about what happened over 20 years ago.
You obviously don't even know Auburn's history
quote:
I'm not saying Auburn is guilty of anything but it is obviously worth investigating much like the Reggie Bush situation was.
Apples and oranges, pal. They started with the evidence in Bush's case, knew the implications and had to connect them. In Auburn's case, there are implications and no evidence...they keep looking...and looking...and looking...and if they ever find anything a correlation must be drawn.
Don't give me this "I'll leave it up to the NCAA" shite because as far as any effect on Auburn, you have no choice but to do that. What you do have a choice about, you've stated your opinion pretty clearly. You have read that Blue Tuna horse shite and bought it all...just like he wanted. Do you honestly think that fricker thought he was going to convince the NCAA or the FBI? Who he really wanted to convince....was you. Mission accomplished. All he needs is a compelling argument and a whole herd of sheep.
I gotta tell you...I simultaneously admire and abhor his ability to lead people away from the truth and into an alternative that is more attractive..like Jim Jones. I would imagine he is a good lawyer. If I was being tried for murder, I would want him defending me but I would tell him I was a Bama fan.
Posted on 1/23/11 at 10:15 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Prove it.
I'll wait patiently.......
I'll wait patiently.......
Posted on 1/23/11 at 10:18 pm to 1984Tiger
I still think the fast bastard pulled his helmet off with time on the clock and a live ball after the blocked punt. Should have been 15 yards and another kick. Surely Alabama would not have blocked a third. Supposedly, that is an automatic call; no decision or judgement required by the referee.
Posted on 1/23/11 at 10:21 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Is this just a cleverly disguised ATPB?
Posted on 1/23/11 at 10:29 pm to tkane311
quote:
No it wasn't like that. The NCAA found six major violations including cash payments
$200?
The documented total for Ramsey alone was over 4,000. There is no actual number for how much money was actually being paid to the entire team. They did not bust Auburn for giving a kid 200 dollars. I'm starting to think you're an Alabama fan who is arguing for Auburn to make them look dumb.
From the official report at ncaa.org:
The institution and the involved coaches admitted a number of violations as major violations,
and the Committee on Infractions found the following major violations within the football
program had occurred:
* Provision of extra benefits in the form of cash payments, including bonuses for game performance, to a student-athlete by a representative of the institution's athletics interests.
* Provision of extra benefits in the form of cash payments to a student-athlete by an assistant
football coach.
* Provision of extra benefits in the form of repeated and regular cash payments to a student athlete by an athletics department administrative assistant. Provision of preferential treatment to a student-athlete by a representative of the institution's athletics interests in order for the student-athlete to obtain a loan.
* Failing to exercise appropriate institutional control and monitoring of the institution's
intercollegiate football program.
* Unethical conduct by an assistant football coach.
* Unethical conduct by an athletics department administrative assistant.
* Erroneous certification during the 1989-90 and 1990-91 academic years that the institution's
athletics program was in compliance with NCAA rules.
* Permitting student-athletes who had not met all eligibility requirements to compete in athletics
contests. [Page 7] * Exceeding the number of permissible grants-in-aid in football during the
1988-89 and 1990-91 academic years.
Posted on 1/23/11 at 10:44 pm to tkane311
quote:
I'll explain this to you assuming you are as dumb as you are appearing to be. Yale national championships happened a long time ago and are thus irrelevant. You seem to be a purveyor of old Auburn lore, so tell me the last time prior to Eric Ramsey that Auburn was in any trouble with the NCAA? From memory? Don't remember? Neither do I and neither does anyone else..much like no one remembers when Yale was relevant in football.
It was less than 20 years ago. It isn't the distant past.
quote:
Everybody knows Bear cheated. What? Saying "everybody knows" doesn't=evidence and/or truth? Hey, you assholes set the standard not me. Bear=cheater by your standard. Hence, the sum of his legitimate+illegitimate national championships are worthless.
Interesting view point. I think a guy who hasn't coached in 30 years was a cheater and although it was never proven his championships are invalid. Hard to argue with that logic.
quote:
Don't ask me, ask the NCAA. That has been their opinion so far.
They have said:
“Reinstatement decisions are independent of the NCAA enforcement process and typically are made once the facts of the student-athlete’s involvement are determined,” the statement said. “The reinstatement process is likely to conclude prior to the close of an investigation. It is NCAA policy not to comment on current, pending or potential investigations.”
quote:
Apples and oranges, pal. They started with the evidence in Bush's case, knew the implications and had to connect them. In Auburn's case, there are implications and no evidence...they keep looking...and looking...and looking...and if they ever find anything a correlation must be drawn.
Why do you know what the NCAA does or does not have. The public evidence doesn't look good. I have no idea what the NCAA knows and you don't either.
quote:
You have read that Blue Tuna horse shite and bought it all
Nope. I think Pat Dye is a cheater. It has been proven. I think Cecil Newton is a bad guy. He has admitted to selling his son. I don't know what happened but there are some really dirty characters involved and I know college athletics is dirty. Your head is so far in the sand that it wouldn't matter if I had video of Cam taking 200k.
Posted on 1/23/11 at 11:01 pm to arwicklu
quote:
The documented total for Ramsey alone was over 4,000. There is no actual number for how much money was actually being paid to the entire team. They did not bust Auburn for giving a kid 200 dollars. I'm starting to think you're an Alabama fan who is arguing for Auburn to make them look dumb.
From the official report at ncaa.org:
The institution and the involved coaches admitted a number of violations as major violations,
and the Committee on Infractions found the following major violations within the football
program had occurred:
* Provision of extra benefits in the form of cash payments, including bonuses for game performance, to a student-athlete by a representative of the institution's athletics interests.
* Provision of extra benefits in the form of cash payments to a student-athlete by an assistant
football coach.
* Provision of extra benefits in the form of repeated and regular cash payments to a student athlete by an athletics department administrative assistant. Provision of preferential treatment to a student-athlete by a representative of the institution's athletics interests in order for the student-athlete to obtain a loan.
* Failing to exercise appropriate institutional control and monitoring of the institution's
intercollegiate football program.
* Unethical conduct by an assistant football coach.
* Unethical conduct by an athletics department administrative assistant.
* Erroneous certification during the 1989-90 and 1990-91 academic years that the institution's
athletics program was in compliance with NCAA rules.
* Permitting student-athletes who had not met all eligibility requirements to compete in athletics
contests. [Page 7] * Exceeding the number of permissible grants-in-aid in football during the
1988-89 and 1990-91 academic years.
That is an awful lot of knowledge. Good stuff. You are right...Auburn did do some bad stuff back in the day...and as recently as 19 years ago. Pat Dye still being involved in the football program today says what to you exactly? Going to google that as well? Hey, not everyone has found their purpose in life...at least you have that going for you.
Posted on 1/23/11 at 11:10 pm to tkane311
quote:
That is an awful lot of knowledge. Good stuff. You are right...Auburn did do some bad stuff back in the day...and as recently as 19 years ago. Pat Dye still being involved in the football program today says what to you exactly? Going to google that as well? Hey, not everyone has found their purpose in life...at least you have that going for you.
It isn't really hard to find. The NCAA posts all of their findings on the website. Copy/paste while I was watching TV wasn't really much work.
You're knocking me for taking the time to look something up when you basically just post random musings and no facts. You actually post a large amount of incorrect information and claim it to be fact. There are some good Auburn posters on this site, you're just not one of them.
Pat Dye resigned because he cheated. The smoke cleared and Auburn let Dye back into "the family." I don't know if he's cheating still but I wouldn't want the guy that got me busted back on board.
I don't want Michael Vick dogsitting for me because I like my dog. I wouldn't want Pat Dye associated with my program because I like my program.
This post was edited on 1/23/11 at 11:11 pm
Posted on 1/23/11 at 11:21 pm to arwicklu
quote:
It was less than 20 years ago. It isn't the distant past
I guess that is a matter of opinion. I think Clinton was about to be inaugurated.
quote:
Interesting view point. I think a guy who hasn't coached in 30 years was a cheater and although it was never proven his championships are invalid. Hard to argue with that logic.
Lots of people say "everybody knows bear was a cheater". Other than taking advantage of no scholarship limitations (leveraging opportunities within the rules), I don't know what he did to cheat if anything. Dude is a legend and I have NOTHING against him. Was trying to offer some perspective on what the transitive property of perspective can do.
quote:
“Reinstatement decisions are independent of the NCAA enforcement process and typically are made once the facts of the student-athlete’s involvement are determined,” the statement said. “The reinstatement process is likely to conclude prior to the close of an investigation. It is NCAA policy not to comment on current, pending or potential investigations.”
Which means absolutely nothing...right? Could mean that they are investigating Bama or LSU or whoever for any number of things and we wouldn't know about it. If your point is that they could be investigating Auburn and we wouldn't know it. True. Is there a UFO outside your window recording your keystrokes? Perhaps you should look to be sure.
quote:
Why do you know what the NCAA does or does not have
I know that they looked at this situation before and declared Cam eligible based on that evidence. If they have found anything since, it has not been sufficient to form conclusions.
quote:
The public evidence doesn't look good.
What evidence? You mean the implication that Cecil shopped Cam to one school but ultimately went to Auburn? I don't like the implication and that part is not good but the evidence doesn't prove anything other than the fact that he shopped Cam to MSU. Again "how about $100,000 then?" is not what someone says at the negotiation table if they believe that they have any other options or leverage.
quote:
Nope. I think Pat Dye is a cheater. It has been proven. I think Cecil Newton is a bad guy. He has admitted to selling his son. I don't know what happened but there are some really dirty characters involved and I know college athletics is dirty.
Ugly but probably fair.
quote:
Your head is so far in the sand that it wouldn't matter if I had video of Cam taking 200k.
This is where you lose me. So I have my head in the sand because I am not convinced, without a single fricking shred of evidence, that Auburn and Cam were involved in a pay for play scheme. But YOU are in touch with reality because you know that they were, without a shred of corroborating evidence. Conveniently, this is the conclusion that you want. Of course, my version is the conclusion that I want. Only difference is, you have a bunch of jealous fans agreeing with you and a 900 page tinfoil hat thread on your side of the argument, and I have a complete and total lack of evidence on mine. Sorry. But I'm going to go with a complete lack of evidence.
That could change and I'll be the first one to say that I was wrong in thinking that it probably didn't happen. But under no circumstances will I say that I was wrong for giving Auburn the benefit of the doubt. I guarantee you...99% of you frickers, with no evidence 10 years down the road, will not apologize or say that you were wrong for witch hunting Auburn. In spite of its unfairness, in spite of what it would say about your lack or introspection, humility and accountability...you will all still say that Auburn just got away with it. And for that, I will root against every last one of you frickers from here on out. If my life ever becomes so empty and sad that I would benefit from and/or have the time to wage a crusade against your team, I sure will. Don't see it happening though.
This post was edited on 1/23/11 at 11:25 pm
Posted on 1/23/11 at 11:23 pm to arwicklu
quote:
You actually post a large amount of incorrect information and claim it to be fact
You are still stuck on that 19 years vs 20 years thing huh? I also put a "?" next to my $200 comment because I knew it wasn't much but didn't know the amount.
quote:
There are some good Auburn posters on this site, you're just not one of them.
You are right...there are some good Auburn posters on this site and I have gotten under your skin.
Pat Dye resigned because he cheated. The smoke cleared and Auburn let Dye back into "the family." I don't know if he's cheating still but I wouldn't want the guy that got me busted back on board.
I don't want Michael Vick dogsitting for me because I like my dog. I wouldn't want Pat Dye associated with my program because I like my program.
funny and I agree.
Posted on 1/23/11 at 11:28 pm to arwicklu
Mom (arwicklu) Dad (tkane311), Quit Fighting!! 
Posted on 1/23/11 at 11:43 pm to tkane311
quote:
I know that they looked at this situation before and declared Cam eligible based on that evidence. If they have found anything since, it has not been sufficient to form conclusions.
Exactly. That is why it is called an investigation. Reinstatement is usually based on self-reporting.
"Mark Jones, an Indianapolis attorney who works with NCAA-related cases, said the reinstatement committee generally relies on the school's self-report in making decisions involving eligibility issues, and doesn't investigate."
quote:
This is where you lose me. So I have my head in the sand because I am not convinced, without a single fricking shred of evidence, that Auburn and Cam were involved in a pay for play scheme.
Your head is in the sand because you're convinced that Auburn didn't do it. I think I'm fairly in touch with reality because I admit that I have no clue.
It looks bad and I'd guess that something went down but I have no clue and I'm not going to do a massive ATPB type connect the dots. My guess is just based on the little bit of evidence I have seen, knowing how dirty college athletics is, and some knowledge of football history. I do have a much better knowledge of Auburn's history than you which is odd.
quote:
Conveniently, this is the conclusion that you want. Of course, my version is the conclusion that I want. Only difference is, you have a bunch of jealous fans agreeing with you and a 900 page tinfoil hat thread on your side of the argument, and I have a complete and total lack of evidence on mine. Sorry. But I'm going to go with a complete lack of evidence.
I don't have a conclusion that I want. Like I said before, I don't know what happened. However, you just admitted that you're arguing because you have a conclusion that you want.
You choose not to look at the recent past and things like the Eric Ramsey/Dye scandal because it does look bad. I wouldn't want to defend OJ in a murder trial just like I wouldn't want to defend Dye in something pay for play related.
You just come across as totally biased without having the knowledge to back anything up. Why would anyone listen to your arguments when you're an Auburn fan that had no clue that you went on sanctions less than 20 years ago? If you don't even know your own school's recent history, then you're probably not a good resource for anything college football related.
quote:
That could change and I'll be the first one to say that I was wrong in thinking that it probably didn't happen. But under no circumstances will I say that I was wrong for giving Auburn the benefit of the doubt. I guarantee you...99% of you frickers, with no evidence 10 years down the road, will not apologize or say that you were wrong for witch hunting Auburn. In spite of its unfairness, in spite of what it would say about your lack or introspection, humility and accountability...you will all still say that Auburn just got away with it. And for that, I will root against every last one of you frickers from here on out. If my life ever becomes so empty and sad that I would benefit from and/or have the time to wage a crusade against your team, I sure will. Don't see it happening though.
You seem a little angry bud. Most of us are just talking about it because it is very relevant to our conference. I don't really care how it turns out. Bama went on sanctions and life moved on. Beyond the tinfoil hat crew, most people are just amazed by the spectacle.
Posted on 1/23/11 at 11:48 pm to tkane311
quote:
You are still stuck on that 19 years vs 20 years thing huh? I also put a "?" next to my $200 comment because I knew it wasn't much but didn't know the amount.
There has been quite a bit of incorrect info. Then you come back and make an excuse. The Bear is a cheater. Ok actually I have no clue if he is a cheater.
quote:
You are right...there are some good Auburn posters on this site and I have gotten under your skin.
I don't really think you're under my skin. I actually think you're funny. Honestly, I'm not really sure you're an Auburn fan. I don't know one Auburn fan that didn't know they had sanctions in the 90's. It was a big deal. Honestly I'd be shocked that any SEC fan didn't know this but everyone that roots for Bama or Auburn know it.
quote:
funny and I agree.
Great. Lets make a pact to never go to bed angry.
Posted on 1/23/11 at 11:51 pm to arwicklu
i'm RAing.
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