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re: Best Running Back in SEC History?

Posted on 6/6/22 at 11:46 am to
Posted by Marktastic86
Pismo Beach, CA
Member since Dec 2020
18167 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 11:46 am to
quote:

the combined record of Georgia's SEC opponents in 1980 was a paltry 26-41.


Yikes
Posted by 3down10
Member since Sep 2014
30812 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 11:53 am to
quote:



Again.

That’s not the only way to create space as you continue to claim.

If they aren’t there to begin with, it also creates space.

In fact, it’s better space as it doesn’t depend on a successful block.


Ok, and if you have all the people on the line, all you need to do is run a sweep and the people on the other side of the sweep aren't blocking space.

Hell, I bet you could probably take a guard or something from the opposite side of the line, and have him run towards the direction of the sweep for an extra blocker, evening up the numbers and allowing the RB to run unblocked for big yards.

It's almost like no matter the formation, in the end it's always a numbers game and the entire point of the offense play calling is to find/create situations that create uneven numbers.
Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
38235 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 11:57 am to
quote:

Once again, the way YPC works is that most runs a back makes are shorter than their average. 2 or 3 yards at best. It's the big runs for 10+ yards or even longer that carries and raises the YPC/total yards. Those few explosive plays.


The less space there is, the less a rb is expected to get.

The more space there is, the more space a rb is expected to get.

quote:

the majority of the time, the runs are short.


Define short. Some are shorter than others.

quote:

Because if you keep getting up on the line, the running back will get that big run and run for even more if your defenders are on the line. AKA, the 17%.


You are talking about Exceptions to the rule.

The % of exceptions gets lower or higher depending on factors like amount of space available, which is partially dictated by how many wideouts run downfield. It’s taking players out of the way.

quote:

you put the ball on the offenses own 1 yard line, with 99 yards of field in front of them.


This hypothetical is too unrealistic to have any merit. This isn’t how football is played.
Posted by 3down10
Member since Sep 2014
30812 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 12:01 pm to
quote:


You are talking about Exceptions to the rule.



It's not an exception to the rule, it's the other part of the rule and you keep trying to ignore it.

quote:

This hypothetical is too unrealistic to have any merit. This isn’t how football is played.


It's played that way on every down according to you. The only thing the 99 yards does is highlight all the extra "space" that is available after you get past the defense that crowds the line.

Which is why defenses would never full time play the way you claim here.
This post was edited on 6/6/22 at 12:05 pm
Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
38235 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

almost like no matter the formation, in the end it's always a numbers game and the entire point of the offense play calling is to find/create situations that create uneven numbers.


1. Arizona University Head Coach Rich Rodriguez, one of the first Spread offense innovators, says, “The hardest thing to do [in football] is to tackle in the open field.”

2. Defenses that are successful in keeping offensive players in a smaller contained space often have two, three, four or more defenders prepared to make a tackle.

3. However, if the offensive formation can extend or even overextend a defense, or maintain a leverage advantage, then the defense is less likely to be able to have numbers at the point of attack.

4. Instead of having to face multiple tackling threats, a ball carrier might only need to make one defender miss a tackle in order for a play to be successful.

5. fact, it is for this very reason that the Spread offense was created. Defenses must choose which sections of the field they wish to defend.

6. If they choose to defend at or near the line of scrimmage, they remain susceptible to quick passes to the outside or deep strikes down the field.

7. If the defense chooses to protect against these outside and deep passes, that leaves less players to defend the middle of the field against running plays.

8. Instead of having to defend a smaller, more confined area of the field, a defense must defend the entire width of the field—the entire 53 1/3 yards—leaving more space for offensive players to get free and score.

Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
38235 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

Because if you keep getting up on the line, the running back will get that big run and run for even more if your defenders are on the line. AKA, the 17%.


The % of exceptions gets lower or higher depending on factors like amount of space available.

This is partially dictated by how spread out players are, how many wideouts run downfield.

It’s literally taking players away from the LOS.
Posted by pitchandcatch27
Huntsville,AL
Member since Jul 2018
3147 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 12:20 pm to
Top 5:

Walker
Jackson
Sims
Campbell
Rogers
Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
38235 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

Which is why defenses would never full time play the way you claim here.


The d formation and personnel is dictated by offensive personnel and formation.
Posted by 3down10
Member since Sep 2014
30812 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 12:23 pm to
quote:


1. Arizona University Head Coach Rich Rodriguez, one of the first Spread offense innovators, says, “The hardest thing to do [in football] is to tackle in the open field.”


2. Defenses that are successful in keeping offensive players in a smaller contained space often have two, three, four or more defenders prepared to make a tackle.

3. However, if the offensive formation can extend or even overextend a defense, or maintain a leverage advantage, then the defense is less likely to be able to have numbers at the point of attack.

4. Instead of having to face multiple tackling threats, a ball carrier might only need to make one defender miss a tackle in order for a play to be successful.

5. fact, it is for this very reason that the Spread offense was created. Defenses must choose which sections of the field they wish to defend.

6. If they choose to defend at or near the line of scrimmage, they remain susceptible to quick passes to the outside or deep strikes down the field.

7. If the defense chooses to protect against these outside and deep passes, that leaves less players to defend the middle of the field against running plays.

8. Instead of having to defend a smaller, more confined area of the field, a defense must defend the entire width of the field—the entire 53 1/3 yards—leaving more space for offensive players to get free and score.



Alabama didn't run a spread offense in 2015. Alabama was more of a play action team, using the run to set up the pass, not the other way around.

The spread offense is based on distributing the ball to many offensive players. The space is mostly used by WR's, not the RB. So you have the players spread out, you get the WR the ball quickly and then he has space. This is not the same for a RB, which again will always come down to the numbers.

A spread based running game is based on misdirection.



This post was edited on 6/6/22 at 12:28 pm
Posted by 3down10
Member since Sep 2014
30812 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 12:25 pm to
quote:


The % of exceptions gets lower or higher depending on factors like amount of space available.

This is partially dictated by how spread out players are, how many wideouts run downfield.

It’s literally taking players away from the LOS.



If you run to the right, you are taking players from the left side of the line away from the play.

The ball carrier isn't a quantum physics wave function where he goes through all the holes at the same time.

Posted by 3down10
Member since Sep 2014
30812 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 12:27 pm to
quote:


The % of exceptions gets lower or higher depending on factors like amount of space available.

This is partially dictated by how spread out players are, how many wideouts run downfield.

It’s literally taking players away from the LOS.


It's not an exception, but the payoff on the big plays is based on the amount of field available. That is why you see defenses crowd the line more and more the closer you get to the goal line, but almost never see it on 1st and goal from the opponents own 1.

Yet for some reason you keep trying to use these odds to say they are the reason for the final stats.
Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
38235 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

The ball carrier isn't a quantum physics wave function where he goes through all the holes at the same time


Ok professor, I think physics agrees that Going through a 10 foot hole is easier than going through a 5 foot hole.

This post was edited on 6/6/22 at 12:42 pm
Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
38235 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 12:51 pm to
quote:

The space is mostly used by WR's, not the RB.


It creates space for all play makers, including rbs in the backfield.

4. Instead of having to face multiple tackling threats, a ball carrier might only need to make one defender miss a tackle in order for a play to be successful.

7. If the defense chooses to protect against these outside and deep passes, that leaves less players to defend the middle of the field against running plays.
Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
38235 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 12:58 pm to
quote:

That is why you see defenses crowd the line more and more the closer you get to the goal line, but almost never see it on 1st and goal from the opponents own 1.


The d formation and personnel is dictated by offensive personnel and formation.

If the goes bunch with extra tight ends and fullbacks, the D reacts.

Is the O spreads the field, the D reacts.

Posted by BrotherDawg84
Member since Dec 2020
3103 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 1:06 pm to
quote:

So SEC defenses are “lesser competition”?


Georgia doesn't play the good SEC teams. Especially in the early 80's when the good teams were limited. The SEC didn't become what it is today until the 2000's.

Even these days you still play the bottom tier teams of the SEC.

In the 3 years Walker played, he faced only 1 ranked SEC team, and that was #14 1982 Auburn.

Henry actually played the best of the SEC, and in a time when the SEC is the best conference.

Walker would have had much less yards total playing on a real schedule instead of the bull shite they called an SEC schedule in 1980.


You're one of those people who you can't instill common sense in, and you'd argue with a stop sign. So you believe, or pretend to believe, whatever you want, but the vast majority of college football experts proclaim Herschel Walker as the greatest running back in the history of all of college football, not just the SEC. Keep your head up your arse, or wherever you keep it, but Herschel was the best ever. Now go argue with stop signs.
Posted by 3down10
Member since Sep 2014
30812 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 1:25 pm to
quote:


You're one of those people who you can't instill common sense in, and you'd argue with a stop sign. So you believe, or pretend to believe, whatever you want, but the vast majority of college football experts proclaim Herschel Walker as the greatest running back in the history of all of college football, not just the SEC. Keep your head up your arse, or wherever you keep it, but Herschel was the best ever. Now go argue with stop signs.


That's a long winded way of saying you're going to believe whatever you want to believe and have no desire to support the reason why you believe it.

As if I really thought a Georgia fan was going to change their mind no matter what I said. Georgia fans aren't the ones whose minds will get changed by looking at the actual circumstances, but they sure as hell provide a great platform to highlight these things.

Because I think playing 1 ranked SEC team over a 3 year period is kind of significant. As you've demonstrated, so many people just up and assume the SEC was as strong 40 years ago as it is today(it wasn't), or that the better teams of the SEC automatically played each other at some point(they don't).

Now that it's been pointed out to you, you just want to stick your head in the sand, and that says it all.

This post was edited on 6/6/22 at 1:26 pm
Posted by 3down10
Member since Sep 2014
30812 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 1:26 pm to
quote:



The d formation and personnel is dictated by offensive personnel and formation.

If the goes bunch with extra tight ends and fullbacks, the D reacts.

Is the O spreads the field, the D reacts.


Well finally you recognize this. Thanks.

Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
38235 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 2:00 pm to
quote:

Well finally you recognize this. Thanks.


This is why your hypothetical is useless as that’s not how football is played.

A benefit to spreading the field is to give play makers space to gain yards.

Do you recognize that?
Posted by Funky Tide 8
Bayou Chico
Member since Feb 2009
54904 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

In the 3 years Walker played, he faced only 1 ranked SEC team, and that was #14 1982 Auburn.


This is an incredible stat. Crazy how bad the SEC was then compared to now.
Posted by 3down10
Member since Sep 2014
30812 posts
Posted on 6/6/22 at 2:26 pm to
quote:



This is why your hypothetical is useless as that’s not how football is played.

A benefit to spreading the field is to give play makers space to gain yards.

Do you recognize that?


Once again, Alabama didn't run the spread in 2015.

The spread in the way you are talking about is when you are distributing the ball to multiple play makers, and the benefit would only be in limited carries for a RB. When you get into the number of carries for Walker/Henry, such advantages in YPC will disappear.

Georgia choose the formations they ran because it's what they thought gave them the best chance.
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