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re: What do people get out of going to church on Easter once a year?
Posted on 4/21/14 at 6:52 am to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 4/21/14 at 6:52 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
He doesnt seem all that likable, but watching pastors rail against one of their own for teaching the "wrong" version of an arbitrary religious belief always make me laugh a little.
I think why they rail against him is that he does not preach a gospel of repentance. He preaches that God loves you and has a great plan. That is half of the gospel, and honestly, the easier side to grasp. Telling people they have sinned and need to ask for forgiveness is really a big part of the gospel and you will not hear that from his lips.
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Posted on 4/21/14 at 7:18 am to 3nOut
@Roger Klarvin
From a biblical perspective, separation from god due to our sin is the root cause of all the evil in the world. In essence what you're saying is that people would rather stay in a fallen world full of death and pain and sorrow rather than devote to god and avoid all of that once you reach the other side.
I don't understand the arguement of "we are seperated now and things aren't that bad so I'll just stay seperated from him" because it's followed by complaints about how bad this world is.
If people wanna stay in this world full of rape, murder, genocide, sorrow, loss, tears, etc for eternity, I guess they're entitled to feel that way. I just personally would rather go somewhere where all that doesn't exist. But not everyone believes in jesus like I do so that's that.
And really from the Christian perspective god doesn't "send" people to hell. We send ourselves by our sin. We in essence tie gods hands.
From a biblical perspective, separation from god due to our sin is the root cause of all the evil in the world. In essence what you're saying is that people would rather stay in a fallen world full of death and pain and sorrow rather than devote to god and avoid all of that once you reach the other side.
I don't understand the arguement of "we are seperated now and things aren't that bad so I'll just stay seperated from him" because it's followed by complaints about how bad this world is.
If people wanna stay in this world full of rape, murder, genocide, sorrow, loss, tears, etc for eternity, I guess they're entitled to feel that way. I just personally would rather go somewhere where all that doesn't exist. But not everyone believes in jesus like I do so that's that.
And really from the Christian perspective god doesn't "send" people to hell. We send ourselves by our sin. We in essence tie gods hands.
This post was edited on 4/21/14 at 7:20 am
Posted on 4/21/14 at 7:22 am to Mattwells90
quote:
Osteen
His message of prosperity is really annoying at times. It makes it difficult for me to tell people how the faith really is because they reply "well Joel Osteen says if I do what god wants I'll be rich and have everything I want. I did all that and I'm not rich so god isn't real". The name it and claim it gospel is really counter to the real Christian message.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 7:29 am to Mattwells90
Back to the OP though I know some ppl get upset about non regulars "crowding up the sanctuary on two holidays" but I don't get mad par say. It makes me sad. It bums me out that
1-a lot of those ppl don't know what it truly means to be a Christian and a follower of gods commandments.
2-they think they know but they really don't.
Personally as a Christian I want everyone to go to heaven with me. I know that won't happen but that's what I would like to happen. I just wish we could get those twice a year ppl to be regular attenders because going to church is really useful and important and shouldn't be a chore.
1-a lot of those ppl don't know what it truly means to be a Christian and a follower of gods commandments.
2-they think they know but they really don't.
Personally as a Christian I want everyone to go to heaven with me. I know that won't happen but that's what I would like to happen. I just wish we could get those twice a year ppl to be regular attenders because going to church is really useful and important and shouldn't be a chore.
This post was edited on 4/21/14 at 7:31 am
Posted on 4/21/14 at 7:42 am to Mattwells90
I would imagine that it is possible to be close to God, follow his commandments and be a true Christian without regularly attending large organized services.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 8:11 am to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
I would imagine that it is possible to be close to God, follow his commandments and be a true Christian without regularly attending large organized services.
if u truely want to grow then you should be around a body of believers on the reg. Older Christians should disciple newer believers.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 8:21 am to diddydirtyAubie
The celebratory mood of the Easter service in the Catholic and Episcopal churches is pretty cool. If church was like that every week, I'd probably go more.
I didn't go yesterday. I lied in my hammock and read Christopher Hitchens instead.
I didn't go yesterday. I lied in my hammock and read Christopher Hitchens instead.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 8:47 am to The Spleen
The bible says it's not good for man to be alone. Church is meant to be a community of believers supporting and building each other up so that we can be better disciples in the world. Unfortunately there are many churches that do not hold this view. There are churches who pound you for tithe money. There are churches who judge other people and don't preach the gospel. What church is truly meant to be though is a support system that helps you learn the word and then apply it to your life.
Salvation and Christianity is not a singular experience. The whole ideaology is based on a relationship. A relationship with god and with other people. So saying that you can be a Christ follower but not partake in any relationships with the body of Christ (fellow members of the church) is missing a major commandment of god. Plus it's just really nice to have people around you who have your back and support you and your family.
Salvation and Christianity is not a singular experience. The whole ideaology is based on a relationship. A relationship with god and with other people. So saying that you can be a Christ follower but not partake in any relationships with the body of Christ (fellow members of the church) is missing a major commandment of god. Plus it's just really nice to have people around you who have your back and support you and your family.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 8:50 am to The Spleen
quote:
The celebratory mood of the Easter service in the Catholic and Episcopal churches is pretty cool. If church was like that every week, I'd probably go more.
It was in my Evangelical Lutheran church as well. I wish I could convince my husband to at least try it out.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 8:54 am to Mattwells90
quote:
The bible says it's not good for man to be alone. Church is meant to be a community of believers supporting and building each other up so that we can be better disciples in the world. Unfortunately there are many churches that do not hold this view. There are churches who pound you for tithe money. There are churches who judge other people and don't preach the gospel. What church is truly meant to be though is a support system that helps you learn the word and then apply it to your life.
I agree with all of this, but let's not call a church the supplement to true fellowship. I know several amazing believers who do not attend a regular church and haven't for years, but fellowship with believers at home groups or other organizations. I know a lot of crappy people that are in church every Sunday.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:06 am to 3nOut
@3nOut
It's similar to the argument of people who can make A's without going to class. That's kinda the exception and not the rule. Most people cannot make that work. There are always a few exceptional cases but most of us need to be in church. I've always found the longer I spent away from consistently visiting the church, the more I seemed to stray into sinful habits. That's just me though.
It's similar to the argument of people who can make A's without going to class. That's kinda the exception and not the rule. Most people cannot make that work. There are always a few exceptional cases but most of us need to be in church. I've always found the longer I spent away from consistently visiting the church, the more I seemed to stray into sinful habits. That's just me though.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:08 am to Mattwells90
And also
I do feel that worship and "church" if you will can be done in small groups at home. You don't need a big building to have church but you do need community. Some people feel they can shut off from the rest of the world when it comes to their faith. I see your point though.
quote:
Where two or more are gathered he is present
I do feel that worship and "church" if you will can be done in small groups at home. You don't need a big building to have church but you do need community. Some people feel they can shut off from the rest of the world when it comes to their faith. I see your point though.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:15 am to diddydirtyAubie
quote:
You might as well just sit at home like you do every other week. One hour a year to worship the creator won't be opening any doors.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:38 am to Dick Leverage
quote:
With that attitude, you exude the antithesis of a Christian. The very reason that many are turned off by church.
I don't really go to church often. I'm an easter/Christmas person. That's nice to know that having any pride in one's appearance is such a turn off. Here's the deal. We aren't talking about whores and beggars and leppers. We are talking about regular churchgoers (one of which I admit I am not) who don't have any pride in their appearance or any sense of decorum.
One of the reasons I rarely go to church is because its not much different than going to a movie theater (which I also hate). Kids on the back row, eating chips, flip flops, fatasses hanging out of ill-fitting jeans, spikey hair, hipster glasses, etc. Its just disrespectful. I like ritual. I like, you know, at least pretending that worshipping God is somehow sacred and deserving of my best or at least a little more consideration than what I'd throw on to get some gatorade at Walgreens on Saturday morning.
That's just me. I could be wrong. I may burn in hell for being elitist, but until then, I will continue to tuck in my shirts and wear a tie when I go to church.
This post was edited on 4/21/14 at 10:39 am
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:41 am to Mattwells90
The megachurch pastor person I like the most is Mark Driscoll.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:42 am to Mattwells90
quote:
From a biblical perspective, separation from god due to our sin is the root cause of all the evil in the world. In essence what you're saying is that people would rather stay in a fallen world full of death and pain and sorrow rather than devote to god and avoid all of that once you reach the other side.
All Im saying is that, given the choice between this world and giving up their life for the possible hope of being with God when they die, a lot people will choose the devil they know over the devil they dont.
However, given the choice between fire and brimstone and God the choice is very different.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:21 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
All Im saying is that, given the choice between this world and giving up their life for the possible hope of being with God when they die, a lot people will choose the devil they know over the devil they dont.
What exactly do you mean by giving up their life? Are you refering to not doing things that the bible says is sin or actually dying for your faith?
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:26 am to Mattwells90
Props to the posters in this thread for having a civil conversation on religion without name calling and ridiculous troll attempts.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:31 am to Mattwells90
Im saying devoting your life to worshipping a god you cant even know is there. The bible demands a lot more from the true followers of Jesus than most American christians are ever willing to commit to, much less someone who is skeptical of god's existence to begin with.
If the bible is right, even a lot of christians arent going to heaven. If hell is no worse than our time on earth, and plenty of believers arent truly saved anyway, whats the point? If given the choice between existing as I am now or jumping through a bunch of hoops just so I can worship god for eternity in "paradise", I choose this.
Hell being fiery and painful is a crucial component of christianity's success. Id argue a lack of belief in hell is a bigger driving force behind our declining belief in god than a lack of belief in god himself. If people dont fear hell, theres no point unless you just really really love Jesus.
That being said, the bible very clearly says that hell is real, it is painful, it is full of eternal suffering and that most of humanity will go there. This idea that hell is just a "separation from god" is a soft way of breaking the story to people. If the bible is true, and I of course dont believe it is, hell is not just a separation from God.
If the bible is right, even a lot of christians arent going to heaven. If hell is no worse than our time on earth, and plenty of believers arent truly saved anyway, whats the point? If given the choice between existing as I am now or jumping through a bunch of hoops just so I can worship god for eternity in "paradise", I choose this.
Hell being fiery and painful is a crucial component of christianity's success. Id argue a lack of belief in hell is a bigger driving force behind our declining belief in god than a lack of belief in god himself. If people dont fear hell, theres no point unless you just really really love Jesus.
That being said, the bible very clearly says that hell is real, it is painful, it is full of eternal suffering and that most of humanity will go there. This idea that hell is just a "separation from god" is a soft way of breaking the story to people. If the bible is true, and I of course dont believe it is, hell is not just a separation from God.
This post was edited on 4/21/14 at 11:35 am
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:38 am to Roger Klarvin
See that's the key difference. I don't view it as hoops to jump through. Really all that's required to be saved is to admit you're flawed, accept jesus and love him and others. Because I love jesus I don't enjoy doing things I liked before. I don't like getting drunk sleeping around cursing etc.
And FWIW hell is actually painful. I'm sure the lake of fire isn't comfortable. The bible gives the example of non stop torment. And again what you're saying is you'd rather live in this world than paradise. That makes no sense. That's like saying I'll stay in Antarctica and freeze instead of going to the Bahamas for free. But it really is true when your heart is changed, you won't enjoy sinful things. And I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I can honestly say I've lived on both sides of salvation and I am much happier and enjoy life more since leaving those old things behind.
And FWIW hell is actually painful. I'm sure the lake of fire isn't comfortable. The bible gives the example of non stop torment. And again what you're saying is you'd rather live in this world than paradise. That makes no sense. That's like saying I'll stay in Antarctica and freeze instead of going to the Bahamas for free. But it really is true when your heart is changed, you won't enjoy sinful things. And I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I can honestly say I've lived on both sides of salvation and I am much happier and enjoy life more since leaving those old things behind.
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