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re: The Gaza land invasion (Day 46) ...
Posted on 8/4/14 at 9:50 am to Alahunter
Posted on 8/4/14 at 9:50 am to Alahunter
quote:
A pretty high up and advisor to Netanyahu is calling for concentration camps now and for Gaza to be returned fully to the Israeli's. The boredom from the public is to gloss over this now. Like I said earlier, it's quite easy for the world to look the other way on anything if it doesn't directly affect them. I may garner some attention, but in the end... everyone is too fat and lazy to worry about anyone else until they are affected.
Link?
Gaza itself is largely a concentration camp, but that is their own damn fault in my opinion. The only reason Egypt and Israel have had to build walls around it and blockade suspect cargo is because Hamas can't stand to NOT be at war with Israel. There is little reason that a peaceful Gaza strip would be permanently poverty stricken, other than the culture and extremism of the residents.
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Posted on 8/4/14 at 9:54 am to cokebottleag
quote:
What we did was go into a country willfully ignorant of what it has historically taken to build a stable ally from the ground up, and instead expected everything to be hunky-dory cause 'we're America and they'll love us.'
AND those of us who were against from the beginning were called traitors, pacifists, cowards - Oh yeah I forgot Liberal, frankly I'll take that tag over the group that killed our soldier, sailors, marines and airmen for nothing more than profit. Same as Vietnam, same same
This post was edited on 8/4/14 at 9:57 am
Posted on 8/4/14 at 9:54 am to cokebottleag
quote:
Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset and member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, Moshe Feiglin, has called for the use of concentration camps for the “conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters.”
Sharing a plan for the destruction of Gaza in a letter addressed to Netanyahu on his Facebook page on August 1, Feiglin wrote “What is required now is that we internalize the fact that Oslo is finished, that this is our country – our country exclusively, including Gaza.”
LINK
Posted on 8/4/14 at 10:05 am to Alahunter
Well saying and doing are two different things.
That's not to say you don't have a very much valid point.
That's not to say you don't have a very much valid point.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 10:15 am to Duke
Honestly, though, a full-on invasion, occupation and annexation is better than what's going on right now -- which is basically starve and strangle the opposition.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 10:57 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Sure but that is quite a difficult proposition in a hostile and very densely populated area.
I don't know why Israel wouldn't just let them alone given the stability since the 2012 ceasefire. Let Hamas try and govern. Hell they had already agreed to work with Fatah and we're losing popularity in Gaza. Israel dangles the carrot of an economy if they installed somebody not terrorist to run things. It's the only way to get rid of an organization like Hamas. Attacking to clear them only unifies their popular support and keeps feeding more extremism. Like we discussed, the next group is likely more ISIS than Hamas. Careful what you wish for Israel.
I don't know why Israel wouldn't just let them alone given the stability since the 2012 ceasefire. Let Hamas try and govern. Hell they had already agreed to work with Fatah and we're losing popularity in Gaza. Israel dangles the carrot of an economy if they installed somebody not terrorist to run things. It's the only way to get rid of an organization like Hamas. Attacking to clear them only unifies their popular support and keeps feeding more extremism. Like we discussed, the next group is likely more ISIS than Hamas. Careful what you wish for Israel.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 11:24 am to Duke
quote:
I don't know why Israel wouldn't just let them alone given the stability since the 2012 ceasefire. Let Hamas try and govern. Hell they had already agreed to work with Fatah and we're losing popularity in Gaza. Israel dangles the carrot of an economy if they installed somebody not terrorist to run things. It's the only way to get rid of an organization like Hamas. Attacking to clear them only unifies their popular support and keeps feeding more extremism. Like we discussed, the next group is likely more ISIS than Hamas. Careful what you wish for Israel.
Not sure if serious? Hamas kidnapped and killed 3 israelis first. Then Hamas was the first to escalate this to a shooting war with the 100s of rockets fired into Israel. Israel didn't just invade for the hell of it.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 11:31 am to cokebottleag
quote:
Not sure if serious? Hamas kidnapped and killed 3 israelis first. Then Hamas was the first to escalate this to a shooting war with the 100s of rockets fired into Israel. Israel didn't just invade for the hell of it.
But he's completely correct.
Israel even had the world's support at one point, and was happy with the way things were going until they went ahead and had a ~75% civilian death rate. He changed my mind for the most part, because the way to win wars right now is to get the populace to stop supporting the opposing army. With no support, they can't possibly retain power.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 11:44 am to cokebottleag
quote:
Hamas kidnapped and killed 3 israelis first.
Did they? It happened in the West Bank where Hamas isn't in power. Hamas never took credit for it and it doesn't follow their usual MO of taking prisoners to use as bargaining chips. I know Israel claimed it was Hamas, but the connection is dubious at best. A number of Israeli security experts agree. The current wisdom is that they may have been Hamas connected but not working under orders from above.
quote:
Then Hamas was the first to escalate this to a shooting war with the 100s of rockets fired into Israel.
This after arrested hundreds of Hamas connected individuals on the very shakey notion Hamas as an organization was behind the murder of 3 teens and one Palestinian was burned alive by Israelis in retaliation. The arrests kicked the hornet's nest. It doesn't take a political science PhD to see the end result would be rockets flying given the weakened position of Hamas.
Such statements don't remove blame from Hamas for firing the rockets, but to point out Israel's blame in escalation as well.
Check out "Hamas's Chances" by Nathan Thrall on the London Review of Books website. He lays out a great explaination of the political considerations of Hamas within the scope of the time from the 2012 ceasefire until today.
Neither should be absolved from their role in escalation. More interesting is the security nightmare Israel welcomes with the current trajectory of the Gaza problem. The crackdowns just lead to a more embolden resistance, one that assuredly will be extremist militant Islam.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 11:55 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
the way to win wars right now is to get the populace to stop supporting the opposing army. With no support, they can't possibly retain power.
Just politics mayne.
That's the biggest problem within this discussion. The conventional wisdom is that it is primarily religious. The reality that most conflicts in history is that it's political and religion is the tool to galvanize the masses to the cause.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 1:44 pm to Duke
Most of the Arab countries are sitting this one out in terms of financial support. They're tired of Hammas' antics as well.
With the tunnels destroyed, it's going to be interesting seeing where this next phase of Israeli operations goes.
With the tunnels destroyed, it's going to be interesting seeing where this next phase of Israeli operations goes.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 3:18 pm to scrooster
Well Egypt is busy cracking down on the Muslim Brotherhood. So they're actively working to get rid of Hamas too.
Syria is busy with a civil war. Iraq and Iran have the ISIS problem. Plus now it's super difficult to help given Gaza is shut off from the outside world.
Yes though, how does Israel proceed is a very good question.
Syria is busy with a civil war. Iraq and Iran have the ISIS problem. Plus now it's super difficult to help given Gaza is shut off from the outside world.
Yes though, how does Israel proceed is a very good question.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 3:20 pm to Duke
you boys are getting way worked up for nothing. Military/industrial/petro complex will solve this before it hurts bidness
No worries
No worries
Posted on 8/4/14 at 6:31 pm to scrooster
If I was Israel I'd totally frick them up. fricking tired repeated bullshite from the enemy.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 7:19 pm to Duke
This was on the poli board. It had to be posted here, but didn't wanna start a new thread about it. Gotta be one of the funniest wtf political cartoons I've seen in a long time... 
Posted on 8/4/14 at 7:51 pm to Alahunter
Holy frick that is hilarious.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 7:52 pm to Duke
quote:
Did they? It happened in the West Bank where Hamas isn't in power. Hamas never took credit for it and it doesn't follow their usual MO of taking prisoners to use as bargaining chips. I know Israel claimed it was Hamas, but the connection is dubious at best.
I just saw that a manual on how to use human shields was picked up by Israel. The propaganda is strong in this conflict.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 8:46 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
And Israel has ton of literature supporting the genocide of Palestine. But better yet they have actually gone into village and slaughter entire villages killing hundreds of innocent children and their mothers. But I guess that's not important enough for Fox News to mention when it discusses the history of these 2 regions.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 8:46 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
.
This post was edited on 8/4/14 at 8:48 pm
Posted on 8/4/14 at 9:04 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
And Israel has ton of literature supporting the genocide of Palestine. But better yet they have actually gone into village and slaughter entire villages killing hundreds of innocent children and their mothers. But I guess that's not important enough for Fox News to mention when it discusses the history of these 2 regions.
Of course they do -- I think it's bullshite. Who the hell leaves a manual around that says that kind of stuff? Any soldier worth his salt would know how to hide behind soft targets to fire back against a larger force. It doesn't need a manual and is clearly a fabrication.
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