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re: San Francisco Sea Serpent
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:10 am to Perfect Circle
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:10 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
Being that close to the beast; did it ever seem to take note of you, or did it just ignore you?
Fortunately, the animal was too busy looking for the sea lion and getting off the submerged rocky ledge to notice us.
Since the animal had not noticed us yet, the two of us first thought it best not to move at all while we were inside the car. The animal was huge and so close it could have turned around and attacked us through the windshield.
1
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:19 am to deltaland
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Amazing that of the thousands of people who go to the west coast beaches never see these rare creatures yet you've seen them multiple times!
How do you know how many people on the west coast beaches have seen one of these animals but didn't seek any publicity about their sighting?
quote:
How lucky you must be
There is some luck involved.
I do feel very fortunate for having any of my sightings but especially my first sighting.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 10:25 am
Posted on 11/9/17 at 12:19 pm to DawgfaninCa
How big of a marine animal do you think this thing could take on? Killer whale? Sperm whale?
Do you think its habitat is exclusive to San Francisco/Pablo Bay?
Do you think its habitat is exclusive to San Francisco/Pablo Bay?
Posted on 11/10/17 at 10:34 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
How big of a marine animal do you think this thing could take on? Killer whale? Sperm whale?
The animal we saw during our first sighting was 60+ feet in length and probably closer to 80 feet than 60 feet.
Who knows how large these animals can grow to?
Since reptiles continue to grow while they are alive, I believe it is possible for older animals to grow to over 100 feet in length.
If attacked by any marine animal, these animals will win the fight but it probably is extremely rare that ever happens.
quote:
Do you think its habitat is exclusive to San Francisco/Pablo Bay?
No, I think the animals only occasionally visit SF Bay.
In modern times, there have been sightings of these animals along the west coast of North America from Southern California all the way to Alaska.
Posted on 11/10/17 at 11:44 am to DawgfaninCa
quote:
Since reptiles continue to grow while they are alive, I believe it is possible for older animals to grow to over 100 feet in length.
This would make it one of the biggest creatures ever to have lived.
Honest questions: Why, considering how big it's said to be and the frequency of sightings, isn't this animal in the mainstream of science?
Why do marine scientists say instead that sightings of creatures like this are illusions, made up, etc?
What do you think it would take for evidence that you and others might have to be taken seriously by marine biologists? Wouldn't this be the story of the century so far? A gigantic animal that occasionaly visits SF Bay to feed on sea lions.
Are there any anecdotes of this animal feeding on humans? There are millions of people on the west coast and plenty of them habituate the beaches and waters. Do they avoid people, in your opinion?
Posted on 11/10/17 at 2:17 pm to DawgfaninCa
any old stories from alcatraz of the animal?
Posted on 11/10/17 at 3:10 pm to Kentucker
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Since reptiles continue to grow while they are alive, I believe it is possible for older animals to grow to over 100 feet in length.
quote:
This would make it one of the biggest creatures ever to have lived.
It's possible that it is one of the biggest animals ever to have lived on this planet.
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Honest questions: Why, considering how big it's said to be and the frequency of sightings, isn't this animal in the mainstream of science?
First, these animals are not seen very frequently. these animals are rarely seen.
Second, the animal rarely exposes its midsection and lower body above the surface of the water.
It is obviously a stealth predator.
The only portion of its body that it must occasionally expose above the surface of the water is the tip of its snout where its nostrils are in order to breathe.
It could do that and no one would know what it actually is or how big it is.
From a distance it would be mistaken for the head of a seal, sea lion or other known marine animal.
quote:
Why do marine scientists say instead that sightings of creatures like this are illusions, made up, etc?
Because marine scientists have never seen one with their own eyes. They just can't believe it's true that these animals exist in spite of all of the eyewitnesses who have reported seeing one.
quote:
What do you think it would take for evidence that you and others might have to be taken seriously by marine biologists?
The scientific community demands to see an actual specimen or at least a part of a specimen which is close to impossible for anyone to get.
quote:
Wouldn't this be the story of the century so far? A gigantic animal that occasionaly visits SF Bay to feed on sea lions.
Apparently, it's the unknown story of the century. Don't forget, there is a long history of these animals occasionally being seen in SF Bay.
Sightings of these animals in SF Bay didn't start with my brother's and my sighting.
quote:
Are there any anecdotes of this animal feeding on humans?
Not that I know of but if someone was attacked and eaten by one of these animals, they wouldn't be alive to tell about it.
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There are millions of people on the west coast and plenty of them habituate the beaches and waters. Do they avoid people, in your opinion?
I do think they avoid people. I think they avoid everything except their prey.
Since the animal I saw during my first sighting had a large padded underbelly, I think these animals probably spend most of their time lying on the ocean or bay floor. You have to be in the right place at the right time and looking in the right direction to see a portion of the animal when it breaks the surface of the water.
Unless a large enough portion of the animal breaks the surface of the water, someone who doesn't know these animals exist will just assume they are seeing a portion of a known marine animal like a sea lion or a seal.
Posted on 11/10/17 at 3:30 pm to Buddy2012
quote:
any old stories from alcatraz of the animal?
Here's an 1875 news article about 3 sightings of a sea serpent in SF Bay.
It was printed in the Daily Alta California, Volume 27, Number 9341, 31 October 1875. Here is the entire article:
quote:
THE LATEST SENSATION
A Veritable Sea-Serpent In San Francisco Bay
Our Oakland correspondent is responsible for the following rather startling account. He has had it In view for a week or two past; the names of the gentlemen interviewed are well known, and altogether it is a story not to be laughed away: We are not at this time tempted of the Devil to write of this scriptural symbol but because we have had a recent convlction that it is not all a myth— the sailor's yarn of a sea-serpent, With our own eyes we have not seen this huge leviathan of the deep, which many are disposed to believe is “all in the eye," but the source of our information of the subject in hand are so reliable that, for one, we are inclined to the opinion that the sea-serpent is a reality. If the reader will follow us to the end or our narration and not be induced to coincide with our expressed view, he or she must at least be impressed with the conviction that, If nothing more,
A WORM-LIKE BONANZA,
In one snakeship, exists in the waters of San Franclsco Bay. A few nights since, while crossing the bay, Colonel J. W. Wood, a ticket taker at Long Wharf, and the smallest man on the job, and, by the way, a man whose ways are ways of pleasantness, and who is especially known to the thousands of ferry passengers as one that can always be found to-day where he was yesterday, and is likely to be to-morrow (for during these many years Col. Wood has stood sentinel and punched tickets at the gate of Long Wharf corral, and won for himself an envious name for extreme modesty, careful reliability and general trustworthiness), inquired of us whether we had that day seen Dinsmore? We knew he had reference to Wm. G. Dlnsmore, the Broadway drug store man, who has especially achieved a valuable notoriety as a dealer in an extra choice brand of “Mozart" cigars, and we said, “No, Why?" “I’ll tell you," said the Colonel; and we and the Colonel talked as follows: Colonel - Dinsmore saw today what I am satisfied I have seen on two different occasions within the past twelve months - a, snake, a huge sea serpent and no mistake; But I want you to see Dinsmore before making any public use of this. WE-Certainly but tell us more; where was it seen and all about it? Colonel— It was from the 9:30 a. m. train from Broadway station, while coming over Long Bridge, that Dinsmore saw it; off to the right from the old boat landing, about midway of the bridge; but I don't want you to use this information until you see Dinsmore. WE— Do you believe the sea-serpent to be a reality? (This question was put because we know the Colonel belonged to a family that is well versed in zoological matters. We knew his big brother, who formerly owned and became famous as the owner of Wood's Museum, at Chicago; in fact, we have great faith In the Colonel's knowledge of petrified things as well as the animated curiosities of the animal kingdom, including almost every creeping thing upon the face of the earth and in the waters under the earth. The Colonel is still a part owner of the “Cardiff Giant," and used to show it in its palmy days.) Colonel.— My education has inclined, me to dlsbelieve ; but, since I have seen and heard recent reports and descriptions of these submarine monsters being seen in other waters I have made up my mind that I have seen, right here in our own bay, either a sea-serpent or a “What is it?" I have always, heretofore, refrained from speaking about this thing, because of the
INCREDULOUS BELIEF OF THE PUBLIC
In the existence of such animals, and through a fear that the boys might pick it up and I call it one of Wood's fish stories you understand? We-Where and when did you see the sight, and what was the appearance of the worm? Colonel- It was about twelve months ago this summer, quite early in the morning -between five and six o'clock— that I first saw this remarkable snake. It was about one third of a mile north from the centre of Long Bridge, and appeared to be sporting in the water, which it agitated violently and lashed into a foam. Its numerous huge coils, as seen above the water, might have been taken for a scrambling group of seals of the "General Grant" or “Ben Butler", of Cliff House notoriety, and that'd what I thought at the time, and why I said not a word. But after a later and more distinct observation, and in view of what I have since heard, I am satisfied that my first spectacle was of a unity in one snakeship of monstrous dimensions. My second and dual(?) view was last month, also quite early in the morning, whilst "1 was coming out to Long Wharf on the earliest morning train. It was in about the same line of observation as my first view; but not more than half so away. I had a good and satisfactory view, when the monster dove underwater and disappeared from sight. It stood as erect from the water as one of the piles in the slips, and in the uniformity of its diameter I would judge its measure to be from 14 to 16 inches.
(to be continued)
This post was edited on 11/10/17 at 3:54 pm
Posted on 11/10/17 at 3:33 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
ITS HEIGHT ABOVE THE SURFACE
Of the water was ten to fifteen feet. The head resembled that of a Lizard or bull-frog, and was dazzling black, while the throat was pure white, From the head, just above a lizard shaped mouth, protruded an inch or more a pair of deep black eyes, half as large as ordinary saucers. The body, or so much as I saw was striped in harmonious shades of black and brown, on the back and sides, the stripes running lengthwise, while the belly was almost white. Running down the centre of the back was plain to be seen a sort of fin-like ruffle(?), about four inches in width, as though the cutlets of the animal had been drawn tightly over the belly and side, and pinned back, after the fashion of the day. WE-Well, we must admit your description is curiously interesting; but your recitation, Colonel, reminds us of that familiar “apple story” in which Eve is represented to have been seduced by the devil under the form of a serpent. You say you saw this sea-serpent, or “What is it” stand up like a pile, in a perfectly erect attitude; and since Milton tells us in his “Paradise Lost” that the serpent, before the Temptation and the Fall, moved about in perfectly upright position, we would like to ask if it is your opinion that the serpent you saw was standing erect upon its feet like a sober man? This question is asked in order to arrive at the length of the serpent, for the time and place you saw it the water was at full tide and would have measured in that locality about twenty-five feet. Colonel-I want you to see Dinsmore before this thing goes any further. I will say, however, that I believe Milton was a little off, for an erect mode of progression is utterly incompatible with the structure of a serpent, whose motion is effected by the mechanism of the vertebral column and the multitudinous ribs which, like so many pairs of levers, enable it to move its body from place to place; consequently, had the snakes before the Fall moved in an erect attitude, they must have been formed on a different plan altogether. But, since the fossil serpents hitherto found differ in no essential respect from modern representatives of the order, I must conclude that either Milton greatly erred, or that his printer was drunk. No, sir; I don't believe the serpent I saw was standing erect upon its feet, but that It was wrapt In many coils beneath the surface of the water, and would probably measure 100 feet; but you see Dins…
We interrupted the Colonel at this juncture, cordially and heartily expressing our sincere thanks for the time and information he gave us, and on yesterday afternoon called upon William G. Dinsmore at his drug store, No 1059 Broadway. We informed our friend Dinsmore that we had understood he had on the previous day seen a sea-serpent, and that we wanted the particulars for an item, whereupon he volunteered a description of the animal he had seen, and expressed himself as being satisfied that it was nothing less than a real live sea-serpent, or whatever else such a mammoth specimen of the snake species is called. It is but fair to say that Mr. Dinsmore is one of our pioneers and a most reputable citizen — a forty-niner, and a man who, when he talks, knows what he is talking about, and who doesn't talk much for fun, His description of the serpent was essentially the same as that given by Col. Wood, who, we afterward Informed Mr Dinsmore, had first given us the item.
THE PLAIN VIEW OF THE SERPENT
That Mr. Dlnsmore had, was while it was swimming along with the rapidity of a steam-tug, near the old ferry landing, or Long Bridge. Its head was raised about four feet out of the water, and at intervals be could see a curviture in its huge body at a distance not less than twenty five or thirty feet from its head. After Mr. D's description we informed him that Col. Wood had his own reasons for wishing his name not to appear before the public in this connection, and that we didn't much like to deal with this hitherto somewhat fabulous subject without being permitted the free use of names of reference of responsible and prominent citizens as a sort of guarantee for the truth of our report. Mr. D. saw at once the justness and consistency of our request, and consented to the free use of his name, and also referred us to Judge Shearer, who, he said, had seen the serpent as he had seen it. We then bade him a thankful adieu and called upon Judge Shearer, father of Lewis Shearer, the Republican candidate for Third District Judge at the late election. We found the Judge in his law office over the Union National Gold Bank, and promptly introduced ourself and announced the object of our errand. This venerable looking man, whoso hair is turned white, slowly took off his spectacles, and, after carefully wiping, replaced them upon the bridge of his nose and looked us squarely in the face. He said: "Young man, I am getting quite old, and my eyes are growing somewhat dim, in all of which I plainly see the palsied hand of Time beckoning me to not loiter by life’s wayside to indulge in idle talk or sensational stories. As
THE MATTER OF FACT
I have neither the inclination nor the time to do that." but with regard to the sea serpent seen by Mr. Dlnsmore and myself, and other gentlemen, there can be no question of mistake, young man. The Judge then proceeded with his description of the serpent; but as it was substantially the same as those given above, we will not repeat, but with a truce to this matter, leave the reader to do his or her own speculating on the monstrous worm that we believe lives and moves and has its being in the waters of San Francisco Bay.
This post was edited on 11/10/17 at 3:47 pm
Posted on 11/10/17 at 3:58 pm to DawgfaninCa
We found this old newspaper article in the New York Times archives. The article was first published in the San Francisco Chronicle on March 28, 1885. The "Goat Island" which is mentioned in the article is now named "Yerba Buena Island". Here is the part of the article that discusses the sighting of a sea serpent in SF Bay:
quote:
A COUPLE OF FISH STORIES
SAN FRANCISCO BAY FURNISHES A SEA
SERPENT AND A MONSTER.
From the San Francisco Chronicle, March 28.
The existence of the giant sea serpent is
no longer in doubt. It has been seen in the
waters of San Francisco Bay. According to the
statement of J.P. Allen, of the Bank of California,
he and several other residents of Alameda
were standing on the deck of the ferryboat
Garden City yesterday morning, at about
8:00 o’clock, about midway between Alameda
and Goat Island, when a huge black monster
suddenly raised its head and neck from the water
to a height of about 10 feet, opened its jaws,
displaying a mouth two feet wide filled with rows
of sharply pointed teeth, and after taking a
curious glance at the passing steamer plunged
again into the water, at the same time elevating
a sixty-foot tail, with which it thrashed the
water for some time, after which it made off in
the direction of the Alameda baths, near which
some fishing boats were anchored. Some incredulous
persons to whom the story was told say
that the ferryboat struck a floating spar, forcing
one end downward in the water and elevating
the other as the steamer passed over the
submerged end, and that after the steamer had
passed the elevated end fell back into the water
with a splash. We may expect soon to hear of
the destruction of the Alameda fishing fleet, or
more probably the establishment of a hotel for
Summer boarders in the vicinity of the Alameda
wharf...
This post was edited on 11/10/17 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 11/13/17 at 3:25 pm to DawgfaninCa
I'm seeing something on-line about Portuguese fisherman catching a dinosaur-era shark, a living fossil, called a "frill shark." The pictures I'm seeing associated with the shark match you sea serpent to a T...long undulating body, snake-like head filled with teeth.
While obviously not as large the sea serpent you've seen, I wonder if an incredibly old frill shark could attain a size approaching what you've described?
While obviously not as large the sea serpent you've seen, I wonder if an incredibly old frill shark could attain a size approaching what you've described?
Posted on 11/13/17 at 11:09 pm to DawgfaninCa
I am really glad I read this thread
Posted on 11/14/17 at 10:35 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
I'm seeing something on-line about Portuguese fisherman catching a dinosaur-era shark, a living fossil, called a "frill shark." The pictures I'm seeing associated with the shark match you sea serpent to a T...long undulating body, snake-like head filled with teeth.
While obviously not as large the sea serpent you've seen, I wonder if an incredibly old frill shark could attain a size approaching what you've described?
I don't know whether an old frill shark can grow to as large as the animal we saw but I know the animal we saw was not an old "frill shark".
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