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re: Is it advocating racism or remembering heritage?

Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:04 pm to
Posted by dwgsfrlife7673
Warner Robins
Member since Jan 2014
1036 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:04 pm to
Swear this board teaches me more politically and historically than my college classes at times
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
70096 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:05 pm to
quote:

If you're gonna say the Civil War wasn't about slavery, you're the one regurgitating complete bullshite from apologists, revisionists, and obfuscaters



I know for many years, we have been taught that the Civil War was all about the abolition of slavery, but this truly did not become a major issue, with the exception of John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry, until after the Battle of Antietam in September 1862, when Abraham Lincoln decided to free the slaves in the Confederate States in order to punish those states for continuing the war effort. The war had been in progress for two years by that time.

Most southerners did not even own slaves nor did they own plantations. Most of them were small farmers who worked their farms with their families. They were fighting for their rights. They were fighting to maintain their lifestyle and their independence the way they wanted to without the United States Government dictating to them how they should behave.

• American slavery got its start in the North
• the American abolition movement began in the South
• most Southern generals did not own slaves, and many, like Robert E. Lee, were abolitionists
• many Northern generals, like U.S. Grant, owned slaves and said they would not fight for abolition
• according to the 1860 Census a mere 4.8 percent of Southerners owned slaves, 95.2 percent did not
• Abraham Lincoln was a white separatist who wanted to send all blacks “back to Africa”
• Jefferson Davis adopted a black boy and freed Southern slaves before the North did
• Lincoln was not against slavery, he was against the spread of slavery
• Lincoln supported the idea of corralling African-Americans in their own all-black state
• Lincoln "won" both the 1860 and 1864 elections with less than 50 percent of the American vote
• Lincoln was a big government liberal, Davis was a small government conservative
• there were tens of thousands of both black and Native-American slave owners
• Lincoln started the Civil War, not the South
• the North fought to "preserve the Union," not to abolish slavery
• the South fought to uphold the original Constitution, not to maintain slavery
• it would have cost ten times less to free the slaves and reimburse their owners than fight the War
• the Northern armies were racially segregated, the Southern armies were racially integrated
• after emancipation 95 percent of all blacks voluntarily remained in the South
•50,000-100,000 African-Americans fought for the Confederacy
• Europe would have supported the South but she was scared off by Lincoln’s war threats
• Northern prisons had higher death rates than Southern ones
• “Reconstruction” was a dismal failure, which is why the South is still recovering from the War
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134050 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:05 pm to
quote:

Being offended is a profession today, just ease around it and let them be.


Eh, it's not so much about "being offended" as it is about showing a lack of consideration for what is obviously a divisive symbol in the current social climate.

I'm not going to sit here and say that every person I have ever seen flying that flag was a racist. But if Mrs. T had had her dorm room decked out in it? Yeah I would have been leery of pursuing her.

Even with all other things equal.
This post was edited on 2/19/14 at 5:06 pm
Posted by genro
Member since Nov 2011
61797 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:06 pm to
Everyone keeps talking about these other reasons. No one lists any.
Posted by dwgsfrlife7673
Warner Robins
Member since Jan 2014
1036 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:07 pm to
quote:

Northern prisons had higher death rates than Southern ones

Andersonville is right down the street
Posted by genro
Member since Nov 2011
61797 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:07 pm to
quote:


• American slavery got its start in the North
• the American abolition movement began in the South
• most Southern generals did not own slaves, and many, like Robert E. Lee, were abolitionists
• many Northern generals, like U.S. Grant, owned slaves and said they would not fight for abolition
• according to the 1860 Census a mere 4.8 percent of Southerners owned slaves, 95.2 percent did not
• Abraham Lincoln was a white separatist who wanted to send all blacks “back to Africa”
• Jefferson Davis adopted a black boy and freed Southern slaves before the North did
• Lincoln was not against slavery, he was against the spread of slavery
• Lincoln supported the idea of corralling African-Americans in their own all-black state
• Lincoln "won" both the 1860 and 1864 elections with less than 50 percent of the American vote
• Lincoln was a big government liberal, Davis was a small government conservative
• there were tens of thousands of both black and Native-American slave owners
• Lincoln started the Civil War, not the South
• the North fought to "preserve the Union," not to abolish slavery
• the South fought to uphold the original Constitution, not to maintain slavery
• it would have cost ten times less to free the slaves and reimburse their owners than fight the War
• the Northern armies were racially segregated, the Southern armies were racially integrated
• after emancipation 95 percent of all blacks voluntarily remained in the South
•50,000-100,000 African-Americans fought for the Confederacy
• Europe would have supported the South but she was scared off by Lincoln’s war threats
• Northern prisons had higher death rates than Southern ones
• “Reconstruction” was a dismal failure, which is why the South is still recovering from the War
All true. And I knew all of it.

Also, the war was about slavery.


Remember, what I said about obfuscation?
Posted by reggierayreb
Member since Nov 2012
18137 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:07 pm to
You'd think those facts would deter genro V&S.


















But you'd be wrong .
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134050 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

the Confederate flag and the Don't Tread on Me Flag mean the same thing but the latter doesn't have the racist overtone?



Pretty much.

And I'm as big a USAUSAUSA as you'll come across, but I wouldn't wear or display the latter flag in the UK, either.
Posted by thesoccerfanjax
Member since Nov 2013
6128 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

Everyone keeps talking about these other reasons. No one lists any.


"States' rights, duh"

"States' rights to what?"

"STATES' RIGHTS, OK!"
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

Everyone keeps talking about these other reasons. No one lists any


I think volshaft has just made a list for you to peruse.
Posted by dwgsfrlife7673
Warner Robins
Member since Jan 2014
1036 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:08 pm to
Just seems like today the people repping the flag are 50/50. While some are just expressing their pride others seem to use it as an oppressive and aggressive showcase.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
282623 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

Don't Tread on Me Flag mean the same thing but the latter doesn't have the racist overtone?


This is considered offensive to some.

Gadsden Flag Racist

Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
282623 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:09 pm to
quote:

"States' rights


Is considered a racist term today
Posted by genro
Member since Nov 2011
61797 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:09 pm to
quote:

I think volshaft has just made a list for you to peruse.

None of those were reasons. That was a list of things that were also bad about the North, and apologetic to the South. Whoopdy damn do.
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134050 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:09 pm to
quote:

some are just expressing their pride others seem to use it as an oppressive and aggressive showcase.


This.
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:10 pm to
quote:

Over a quarter million Southerners didn't go die for slavery.. Most of them couldn't afford slaves and didn't give a shite... They fought back cause their home was invaded.



Poor people always fight the wars for the privileged and rich. This doesn't change anything.
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134050 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:11 pm to
quote:

Is considered a racist term today


No it's not.

It's considered an apologetic term and a cop out.
Posted by DynastyDawg
Relf-Coast
Member since Jan 2013
10886 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:11 pm to
quote:

I think volshaft has just made a list for you to peruse.


quote:

All true.
And I knew all of it.
Also, the war was about slavery.
Remember, what I said about obfuscation?


^^^^^^^^
That's why the list was a complete waste of time.
I knew it would be, which is why I didn't make it myself.
Disregard everything but his own opinion.
= Dumbass.
Posted by parkjas2001
Gustav Fan Club: Consigliere
Member since Feb 2010
45000 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:11 pm to
Peoples History of the United States is a good history book for those who have not read it.
Posted by reggierayreb
Member since Nov 2012
18137 posts
Posted on 2/19/14 at 5:11 pm to
I'm usually above resorting to personal attacks but you're a shitty father, your breath stinks and you have very few friends... yes, I went there.
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