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re: Do you accept the notion of the Big Bang as the origin of our universe?
Posted on 1/7/18 at 7:42 pm to Kentucker
Posted on 1/7/18 at 7:42 pm to Kentucker
quote:
It's just a bit of nerd panic.
I mean, it's only the sexiest launch of the last twenty/thirty years.
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JWST's infrared capabilities are expected to let it see back in time to the first galaxies forming just a few hundred million years after the Big Bang.
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Posted on 1/7/18 at 8:15 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Sweet. 
Posted on 1/7/18 at 8:39 pm to Kentucker
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...the great hostility of evangelical Christians towards atheism...
This simply isn't true for all, or even most, evangelical Christians.
When you watch the evening news, it's the bad news that receives all of the attention; the good news goes largely unreported.
A few bad apples, who are Christian in name only, spoil it for the rest of us; the overwhelmingly positive impact of Christians around the world goes unnoticed.
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The greatest conflicts...come when evangelicals want to impose their beliefs on other groups via government action.
See previous response. Don't judge all Christians based on the behavior of a few bad apples. I guarantee you, NO genuine Christians want to impose anything on anybody.
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I...think...non-Christian groups draw a line when those attempts are done by taking over government. That's dangerous.
Again, this isn't happening. Christianity is not a religion that advocates overthrowing governments, then forcing the people to conform. In history, there may be instances of this happening under the guise of Christianity, but it certainly isn't something exclusive to Christianity.
Jesus, who is the Christian's example in all things said in Matthew 22:21, give to the government what is the government's, but give to God what is God's.
And in Romans 13:1, the bible tells Christians to: "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for their is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God." In other words, respect the authority of the government, after all, it has been established because it's God's will.
So I'm right there with you when it comes to opposing those who would try to impose their beliefs on other groups.
Posted on 1/7/18 at 8:50 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
...the great hostility of evangelical Christians towards atheism...
This simply isn't true for all, or even most, evangelical Christians.
Eh, have you ever lived in The Bible Belt? Or are you just an SEC fan who jumped on the band wagon. I grew up an Atheist in a religious family all over the world.
I have so much anecdotal evidence that it's not even funny, but we can even go to just simple polling.
As you can see, both Evangelicals and Atheists generally don't get along. Having my experiences, most Christians react very negatively if you say you're an Atheist. The most common response I got when I was younger was ''So you're a Satanist?'', even in the military I fondly remember a girl saying to our very tiny line in Boot Camp (which represented the Muslims and Atheists) that ''Christians were taking over''.
Most Atheists off-line who don't want to debate will almost never say anything to you, because most of us have been absolutely beaten into the ground at family dinners and social gatherings with people asking questions like: ''SO YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN ANYTHING? SO HOW ARE WE HERE?'' and nonsensical debates like that.
Trust me, he's not exaggerating the evangelical opinion of Atheists, and no one is saying it's one way. All I'm saying is that Atheists have a good reason to be upset and feel ostracized.
Posted on 1/7/18 at 9:23 pm to Perfect Circle
I know and love many Christians. I just don't have that feeling towards evangelicals. It's difficult for me to consider them in the same light as Christians. They're just too negative about everything.
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:09 pm to Kentucker
The term evangelical Christian indicates someone who believes in Jesus, and is faithful to share and tell others about Him. Except for Catholics and the Orthodox churches, all other Christians are evangelical.
Actually, all Christians should be evangelical. Matthew 28:18-20 says, "Then Jesus came to them and said, 'All authority in Heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them to the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I've commanded them." The verse reads the same in the Catholic and the Orthodox Bible. I'm not sure why those faiths fail to hold to it.This command to "go and tell" also occurs in Acts, 1 Corintians and 1 Peter.
Man, I'm sorry you guys have had bad experiences with people claiming to be Christians. Unfortunaty, all religious and social groups have people who are disingenuous.
Actually, all Christians should be evangelical. Matthew 28:18-20 says, "Then Jesus came to them and said, 'All authority in Heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them to the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I've commanded them." The verse reads the same in the Catholic and the Orthodox Bible. I'm not sure why those faiths fail to hold to it.This command to "go and tell" also occurs in Acts, 1 Corintians and 1 Peter.
Man, I'm sorry you guys have had bad experiences with people claiming to be Christians. Unfortunaty, all religious and social groups have people who are disingenuous.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 10:53 am to Perfect Circle
Well, the term evangelical has come to mean something negative to non-Christians just as the word atheist does to most Christians. The definition of atheism is "a disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods." Atheism is not anti-theism. However, the terms atheism and atheist have come to mean just that with a lot of Christians in America.
So, too, the term evangelical has come to have a hostile meaning to non-Christians. For example, this is how non-Christians see the Bible passage you quoted when it's delivered by an evangelical:
"All authority in Heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them to the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I've commanded them whether they want to or not."
It's this by-any-means-necessary obsession that I regard as dangerous to our democratic republic. Evangelicals will not take no for an answer. They seem willing to force their religion, their warped version of Christianity, upon all. Free will seems to be anathema to evangelicals.
So, too, the term evangelical has come to have a hostile meaning to non-Christians. For example, this is how non-Christians see the Bible passage you quoted when it's delivered by an evangelical:
"All authority in Heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them to the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I've commanded them whether they want to or not."
It's this by-any-means-necessary obsession that I regard as dangerous to our democratic republic. Evangelicals will not take no for an answer. They seem willing to force their religion, their warped version of Christianity, upon all. Free will seems to be anathema to evangelicals.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:43 pm to Kentucker
While recognizing the No True Scotsman, I do believe Circle has a point in that they're not really doing what they ought to. Many Christians take this point of view, but also many do not. Education, marriage, birth control, STEM CELLS, ect. ect. seem to only have religious opponents that negatively affect the rest of us.
And then of course, family dinners.
My mom tries to convert me every time she calls, but of course I take it that she legitimately cares about me and isn't trying to outright shoehorn her ideals on me.
And then of course, family dinners.
My mom tries to convert me every time she calls, but of course I take it that she legitimately cares about me and isn't trying to outright shoehorn her ideals on me.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 1:06 pm to Kentucker
Again, I'm sorry you've had unpleasant experiences with people professing to be Christian. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'm being truthful when I tell you the kind of people you're saying are evangelical Christian are neither evangelical nor Christian. In fact, your addendum, in bold type, to the Great Commission is totally non-Christian.
Really?
This is simply not true. As I stated in a previous post, an evangelical Christian is someone who believes in Jesus and is faithful to share and tell others about Him. That's it. Adding or taking away from this simple truth, brings someone's Christianity into question. What part of that is warped?
You don't understand genuine evangelical Christianity. Free will is from God. God has given us free will because He wants us to choose Him of our own accord. He doesn't want to force us to love Him, because that's not love at all. Trying to force Christianity on others as some kind of "fire insurance," or as a means of control, is misguided.
I wish that you could but meet some of the missionaries I know, who in absolute loving kindness, sacrifice so much, to tell others, here and abroad, about the Love of Jesus. Who go about doing this with such humility.
Don't judge an entire group of people based on the actions of an inconstant few.
quote:
Evangelicals will not take no for an answer. They seem willing to force their religion, their warped version of Christianity, upon all.
Really?
This is simply not true. As I stated in a previous post, an evangelical Christian is someone who believes in Jesus and is faithful to share and tell others about Him. That's it. Adding or taking away from this simple truth, brings someone's Christianity into question. What part of that is warped?
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Free will seems to be anathema to evangelicals.
You don't understand genuine evangelical Christianity. Free will is from God. God has given us free will because He wants us to choose Him of our own accord. He doesn't want to force us to love Him, because that's not love at all. Trying to force Christianity on others as some kind of "fire insurance," or as a means of control, is misguided.
I wish that you could but meet some of the missionaries I know, who in absolute loving kindness, sacrifice so much, to tell others, here and abroad, about the Love of Jesus. Who go about doing this with such humility.
Don't judge an entire group of people based on the actions of an inconstant few.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 1:27 pm to Perfect Circle
Straight from the horses mouth. Unless all of the people who actually took this poll aren't actual Evangelicals.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 2:33 pm to Perfect Circle
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I wish that you could but meet some of the missionaries I know, who in absolute loving kindness, sacrifice so much, to tell others, here and abroad, about the Love of Jesus. Who go about doing this with such humility.
I've distinguished between evangelicals and Christians. I truly love and admire "genuine" Christians. They are some of the nicest people I have ever met. It is a pleasure to live with and to know them.
I also know some evangelicals and I would not count them among my friends. For example, last year I met a married couple on a birding trip. Our mutual love for nature seemed to be the basis for a good friendship.
As we got to know each other, the subjects of religion and politics came up. I disavowed both and assured them that I was not religious and only considered politics when it was time to vote.
This seemed to set the wife off. The husband seemed more like me in that he wanted to focus on our mutual interest in nature but he was quickly subdued by his wife who launched a campaign to convert me. She insisted that I join her prayer group so that she could "take me to heaven with her."
I declined and decided not to have anything more to do with them. She then took her campaign to Facebook, beseeching her "followers" to pray for her in her efforts to "reach me." I unfriended her and I think I might have to seek legal help if she makes contact with me again.
I wish I could say that this is an isolated incident but it isn't. I can pick out the evangelicals just by revealing that I'm areligious to them. Some are like the lady I described, some are incredulous but most get angry and spit out epithets that I'm sure good Christians would punish their children for using.
So, I'm not just blathering when I say that evangelicals are a major problem for non-Christians. This problem extends to government in states as conservative as Kentucky.
I'm sure you're aware of the hullabaloo that arose when a county clerk refused to issue marriage certificates to gay couples when same sex marriage was okayed by the Supreme Court. That made headlines around the world but there are many, many more examples of evangelical discrimination against minorities and non-Christians in our state. If not for the Supreme Court, I think our governor and legislature would just declare Kentucky to be a Christian caliphate. I know that's a Muslim term but it seems appropriate considering how similar fundamentalist Christians are to fundamentalist Muslims.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 4:39 pm to Kentucker
We are at loggerheads again, Ken.
Honestly, there are plenty of Christians who act the way you've described. Just as there are plenty of atheists who seek to ridicule and anger believers. No particular group has immunity from bad behavior.
I think most anger comes out of fear. In this instance, the fear comes when two groups distrust and avoid each other, rather than engage with each other and find common ground, as people. This what I've always tried to do: be respectful to all people.
Honestly, there are plenty of Christians who act the way you've described. Just as there are plenty of atheists who seek to ridicule and anger believers. No particular group has immunity from bad behavior.
I think most anger comes out of fear. In this instance, the fear comes when two groups distrust and avoid each other, rather than engage with each other and find common ground, as people. This what I've always tried to do: be respectful to all people.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 5:01 pm to Kentucker
I've been an atheist for at least 20 years and can count on one hand the number of people I personally know who I have told. I don't want the inevitable battles with friends and family and don't want to be discriminated against at work.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 5:17 pm to Perfect Circle
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We are at loggerheads again, Ken.
Well, I think we're both mature enough not to be bothered by a discussion. That's why I enjoy talking with you.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 5:26 pm to Globetrotter747
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I don't want the inevitable battles with friends and family and don't want to be discriminated against at work.
Yes, the discrimination is real. Atheists are relegated to such a low status in our society that discrimination claims from them are usually pooh-poohed by courts and HR offices in companies.
It bewilders me that atheists are automatically assigned the antagonist role in a conflict. Most people in our society seem to think that atheists can't be good people.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:05 pm to Kentucker
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:23 pm to DavidTheGnome
No
Again
Again
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:57 pm to DavidTheGnome
No it’s prob BS
Posted on 1/12/18 at 7:40 am to Kentucker
This is my favorite-ever thread on the OT board. No one screamed or hurled insults, and it reminded me that scientifically minded, non-religious people like college football, too. Sometimes I think I’m the only one.
I’m 43 and reminded my dad over Christmas that I don’t believe in god. For a second, I thought he was going to hit me.
I started to speak with him about how cool the LIGO project is, then decided to drop it.
I’m 43 and reminded my dad over Christmas that I don’t believe in god. For a second, I thought he was going to hit me.
I started to speak with him about how cool the LIGO project is, then decided to drop it.
Posted on 1/12/18 at 1:05 pm to RaleighTiger
I've always been amazed by the hostility that some theists show towards people who don't accept religion. Islam is often denigrated because of Muslims' claim that it's a "religion of peace." Christianity has a history equally as brutal as Islam. While there may be some members of both religions who do practice peace, and it may be a majority for both, there are plenty of Muslims and Christians ready to kill and maim in the name of their gods.
Regarding the LIGO project, its use in the discovery of gravity waves is every bit as profound as any experiment done at the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva. That an SEC school, LSU, was involved in the LIGO project is impressive.
Regarding the LIGO project, its use in the discovery of gravity waves is every bit as profound as any experiment done at the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva. That an SEC school, LSU, was involved in the LIGO project is impressive.
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