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Opinions Wanted: How To Beat A&M.
Posted on 11/26/13 at 5:06 am
Posted on 11/26/13 at 5:06 am
I'm especially curious what our A&M friends here have to say...
I only caught bits and pieces of the LSU game, but it looks like they mush rushed JFF with the defensive ends and brought heat up the middle - playing man-to-man on their receivers. Can Mizzou replicate the LSU approach?
What kind of running game do they have? Can they lean on it and sustain with it?
On offense... I still think Mizzou needs to be prepared to do anything (within reason) to score on every possession. Of course, dependent on how the game is evolving. I'm pushing the envelope and emptying the playbook. (Pinkel's fake punt vs. Ole Miss shows he currently has a similar mindset.)
I read a Cluck fan opinion that a power running game is effective against A&M - and that Missouri doesn't have one. LOL Ask Ole Miss about the last 8 minutes of the game.
I'm also curious what kind of aerial attack is effective against them. Any? All?
Wish we didn't have to beat A&M (due to our XII brotherhood), but here's to hoping it's finally our year.
I only caught bits and pieces of the LSU game, but it looks like they mush rushed JFF with the defensive ends and brought heat up the middle - playing man-to-man on their receivers. Can Mizzou replicate the LSU approach?
What kind of running game do they have? Can they lean on it and sustain with it?
On offense... I still think Mizzou needs to be prepared to do anything (within reason) to score on every possession. Of course, dependent on how the game is evolving. I'm pushing the envelope and emptying the playbook. (Pinkel's fake punt vs. Ole Miss shows he currently has a similar mindset.)
I read a Cluck fan opinion that a power running game is effective against A&M - and that Missouri doesn't have one. LOL Ask Ole Miss about the last 8 minutes of the game.
I'm also curious what kind of aerial attack is effective against them. Any? All?
Wish we didn't have to beat A&M (due to our XII brotherhood), but here's to hoping it's finally our year.
Posted on 11/26/13 at 8:04 am to Mizz-SEC
quote:
I'm especially curious what our A&M friends here have to say...
Oh lawd, here we go
quote:
I only caught bits and pieces of the LSU game, but it looks like they mush rushed JFF with the defensive ends and brought heat up the middle - playing man-to-man on their receivers. Can Mizzou replicate the LSU approach?
Exactly what they did. Didn't even use a spy on JFF at times. Compound that with Johnny's propensity to hang around in the pocket much longer than last year, and it produced a handful of coverage sacks against #2. If Mizzou has the horses to pull it off (and I think y'all do, actually), I'd employ the same strategy until Johnny proves he can beat it. Be wary of the back end, though. He will stress the secondary to the limit--y'all will need to be extremely disciplined on the back end.
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What kind of running game do they have? Can they lean on it and sustain with it?
We have a GREAT stable of backs. Yes, I said great (although the health of our bruiser, Tra Carson, is still in question). However, due to JFF being JFF or the playcalling inexplicably getting pass-happy, we rarely ground and pound, which is a damn shame if you ask me. The conditions against Arkansas dictated that we run, and we wrecked 'em the entire 2nd half. And since then.........not much of consequence during non-garbage time minutes when it comes to the run game. I don't know if it's falling in love with Manziel's improvisation or what, but our offense has been extremely unbalanced as of late (we only called six runs against LSU).
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On offense... I still think Mizzou needs to be prepared to do anything (within reason) to score on every possession. Of course, dependent on how the game is evolving. I'm pushing the envelope and emptying the playbook. (Pinkel's fake punt vs. Ole Miss shows he currently has a similar mindset.)
Call me a pessimist, but Pinkel won't have to reach very deep into his bag of tricks to keep the Aggie defense honest. To call them something short of the fabled "Wrecking Crews" of yore is an understatement of comical proportions.
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I read a Cluck fan opinion that a power running game is effective against A&M - and that Missouri doesn't have one. LOL Ask Ole Miss about the last 8 minutes of the game.
Do y'all have a DECENT running game? Meaning, can you reasonably expect on any given scoring drive to pop off gains of 4-5 yards against an average defense at least 2-3 times? Well, you're in luck: against A&M, 4-5 yard gains will balloon to 8-11 yard gashes with regularity. As long as you don't get in your own way, you should get pretty much what you want on the ground.
THAT SAID:
I can't believe I'm about to type this, but the Aggie defense was actually............halfway.......serviceable against LSU's fearsome ground attack. By NO means am I implying that they've turned the corner, but the unit played well enough to put a proverbial finger in the crack in the dam before the offense betrayed them with ineptitude time and again. They're trying--God, they're trying--but whether the end of the year will be even incrementally better than the debacle of a season opener against Rice depends on whether they built upon any of the meager positives that came out of the LSU game.
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I'm also curious what kind of aerial attack is effective against them. Any? All?
How many kinds are there? Close your eyes, pick one, and roll with it. You'll probably be fine
Our ace in the secondary, however, is DeShazor Everett. Best defender, ball hawking corner, jack of all trades. If there's anyone to be wary of, it's #29. Safety Howard Matthews (#31) also shows flashes, but he and his counterpart Floyd Raven, Sr. (#5 with the dreads), aren't very disciplined on a regular basis.
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Wish we didn't have to beat A&M (due to our XII brotherhood), but here's to hoping it's finally our year.
I had to explain to a Michigan fan the other day how A&M and Mizzou really aren't rivals, nor do we have any real animosity towards each other. Honestly I've been looking forward to going to CoMo all season long, and that's because every time y'all came to College Station, y'all's fans were a class act.
As always, glad y'all made the leap with us to the SEC. We put the league on notice last year, and y'all continue to do so this year--let's keep that up, shall we?
Gig 'Em and M-I-Z
This post was edited on 11/26/13 at 8:19 am
Posted on 11/26/13 at 11:36 am to TbirdSpur2010
Give the ball to one of our 10 playmakers. Repeat as necessary.
Posted on 11/26/13 at 1:31 pm to Mizz-SEC
Win time of possession.
Don't over pursue JFF.
Run the football.
Don't turn it over.
In conclusion, good offense, good defense. Don't forget about the special teams. Gotta be good on the special teams.
Don't over pursue JFF.
Run the football.
Don't turn it over.
In conclusion, good offense, good defense. Don't forget about the special teams. Gotta be good on the special teams.
Posted on 11/26/13 at 2:19 pm to Mizz-SEC
1. ball control, you pound their weak defense with long sustained drives.
2. make sure you get points every drive or at least chunks of time off the board.
3. if you are able to score and take up time sumlin/jff will abandon the nonqb run game in order to try and keep up and save the jff heisman camp
4. on d don't get beat deep by them. make them work down the field on long drives.
5. when rushing JFF id use my fastest line backer as a spy, we had our ends rush deeper than normal forcing him to stay inside the pocket.
2. make sure you get points every drive or at least chunks of time off the board.
3. if you are able to score and take up time sumlin/jff will abandon the nonqb run game in order to try and keep up and save the jff heisman camp
4. on d don't get beat deep by them. make them work down the field on long drives.
5. when rushing JFF id use my fastest line backer as a spy, we had our ends rush deeper than normal forcing him to stay inside the pocket.
Posted on 11/26/13 at 3:05 pm to Mizz-SEC
What Tbird said and HBT as well. If y'all don't tell Sam and co to sliw down and stay outside JFF will do his thing. I haven't watched enough of y'all to know if your dbs can play physical man coverage all game. If you can't we will get ours. Question is will it be enough because anyone can put 40 on us. I think it will be a good game. GIG EM
Posted on 11/26/13 at 5:12 pm to heartbreakTiger
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ball control
quote:
make sure you get points every drive or at least chunks of time off the board
These are huge. One of the biggest things LSU did was get points and follow it up with quick possessions on defense early on. We never got in a rhythm offensively from the start and I think it really hurt us. If we start stringing together first downs we start to wear the other defense down and get them off balance and that's when we hit big plays.
On defense it seemed like we were so often in 2 and 10, 13, etc situations; we weren't getting good yardage on first down. This 1) made us abandon the run game (which I didn't agree with) and 2) made JFF feel like he needed to take shots down the field more often. This makes our offense much more predictable from the standpoint of containing JFF and much less efficient. Getting into those situations is easier said than done but I think that was huge for LSU and a difference I noticed between that and the Bama game.
I wouldn't worry about offense
This post was edited on 11/26/13 at 5:14 pm
Posted on 11/26/13 at 5:25 pm to Agforlife
quote:
What Tbird said and HBT as well. If y'all don't tell Sam and co to sliw down and stay outside JFF will do his thing. I haven't watched enough of y'all to know if your dbs can play physical man coverage all game. If you can't we will get ours. Question is will it be enough because anyone can put 40 on us. I think it will be a good game. GIG EM
Yes, great posts by TBird and HBT.
As to your question... We've primarily rushed four and played zone behind them in passing situations (4th and 15 being a glaring exception). Which is why we've been gashed by screens so often.
Can a four man rush contain JFF? I have my doubts.
Can our corners play physical man coverage? Not sure. They really haven't been asked to.
Can we score 40? I'm counting on it and am REALLY glad Franklin had a week to knock some rust off. The weather is going to be a non-factor. High Saturday of 48, no rain.
To be honest, I wish you would have won last week. It's hard to envision a player as dynamic as JFF losing two in a row.
And my gut is still telling me the team that has last meaningful possession wins it.
How is JFF's health?
Posted on 11/26/13 at 5:37 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
On defense it seemed like we were so often in 2 and 10, 13, etc situations; we weren't getting good yardage on first down. This 1) made us abandon the run game (which I didn't agree with) and 2) made JFF feel like he needed to take shots down the field more often. This makes our offense much more predictable from the standpoint of containing JFF and much less efficient. Getting into those situations is easier said than done but I think that was huge for LSU and a difference I noticed between that and the Bama game.
Of all the things Missouri has done this year, I think their ability to take away the run has been the most impressive.
Their pass rush and turnover record has generated the hype and flash, but their most consistent defensive attribute all year has been making teams one dimensional by stuffing the run.
Thanks for the feedback...
Posted on 11/26/13 at 5:43 pm to Mizz-SEC
a four man rush can contain jff. the whole key is your defensive ends not losing contain. If they dont get deep enough jff will escape to the outside and that is where the trouble starts. If they get deep and force jff to step up in the pocket it makes it harder for him to do his magic. the defensive tackles are best if they can just plug the middle making it tough for jff to navigate around them.
Posted on 11/26/13 at 7:50 pm to heartbreakTiger
All the above is great info. I have to go with heartbreakTiger. You can try to duplicate what LSU did but you have to use your personels strengths. Mizzou's defense is built primarily on speed around the line of scrimmage. Find a way to use this to contain JFF.
It all starts with discipline in the secondary and gap responsability on the line. LSU did it by funneling JFF through the middle of the line right to thier LB's. He still gained yards, but with LB's closing, it left him with less time to survey the field. Beleive me, if Mizzou knows how LSU stopped JFF, JFF is studying a way to counteract this. I wouldn't be suprised to see some more screen plays until Mizzou stops them like with OM. I would still gameplan a spy on him. Bring blitz's from different areas, LB one time then maybe safety the next. That split second of not knowing what he's looking at may make the difference. Some things not characteristic.
In truth, your not going to stop JFF. Just slow him down.
It all starts with discipline in the secondary and gap responsability on the line. LSU did it by funneling JFF through the middle of the line right to thier LB's. He still gained yards, but with LB's closing, it left him with less time to survey the field. Beleive me, if Mizzou knows how LSU stopped JFF, JFF is studying a way to counteract this. I wouldn't be suprised to see some more screen plays until Mizzou stops them like with OM. I would still gameplan a spy on him. Bring blitz's from different areas, LB one time then maybe safety the next. That split second of not knowing what he's looking at may make the difference. Some things not characteristic.
In truth, your not going to stop JFF. Just slow him down.
Posted on 11/26/13 at 7:53 pm to Mizz-SEC
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How is JFF's health?
Honestly, he's a little nicked up, but who isn't at this point in the year? Once kickoff happens, he'll be his usual swashbuckling self.
He is being slightly more careful about avoiding contact this season, though, especially since the Auburn game. Not to the point of being tentative, though.
Posted on 11/26/13 at 10:26 pm to jafo
i should have added the mixing in of a blitz from different looks as well. we blitzed and had success getting to jff and forcing him to scramble away from the line.
Posted on 11/26/13 at 10:54 pm to heartbreakTiger
HBT, have you thought about coaching?
Posted on 11/26/13 at 11:36 pm to semotruman
It's pretty simple really.
Run the football. They can't stop it, and we are a very good rushing team. Keep their O on the sidelines as much as possible.
Play contain with our DL. Keep Manziel in the pocket where he is only really good, and don't allow him outside where he is nearly unstoppable. He will get frustrated, force balls and hopefully turn it over. He doesn't have the patience to take check downs all day.
Run the football. They can't stop it, and we are a very good rushing team. Keep their O on the sidelines as much as possible.
Play contain with our DL. Keep Manziel in the pocket where he is only really good, and don't allow him outside where he is nearly unstoppable. He will get frustrated, force balls and hopefully turn it over. He doesn't have the patience to take check downs all day.
Posted on 11/27/13 at 12:22 am to semotruman
If I was to ever coach it would be in basketball. I've helped a coach that coached me run a few practices before.
I've helped a coach that coached me run a few practices before. Posted on 11/27/13 at 5:07 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
i should have added the mixing in of a blitz from different looks as well. we blitzed and had success getting to jff and forcing him to scramble away from the line.
Yeah. That's what I noticed. Their DEs played contain and they pressured up the middle and that's not typically what Missouri's done. It'll be interesting to see if they do some of that.
I think JFF will destroy our usual straight four man rush with zone behind it. They need to defend all 3 levels.
Posted on 11/27/13 at 6:43 am to heartbreakTiger
Yeh, it's not so much getting sacks either. Mizzou has to get out of thier comfort zone alittle and break some tendancies on defense. Sam can't do it every down. There are plenty of options to change up the blitz packages. Corners, safety, LB's ect and delayed blitzes. But the lineman have to maintain their gaps and take up blockers. But LSU had a pretty good plan and it worked well. All thats required for this game is maybe two to three stops for Mizzou's defense. Your not going to shut JFF out. They will score.
Posted on 11/27/13 at 10:01 am to jafo
i don't believe we got a sack from the blitz. All of our sacks were when the defensive tackles pushed the guard and center back and our ends held contain but managed to still get to jff trapping him in the pocket.
welter missed a few sacks because he sucks but he did enough of a job to bother jff and force him to back pedal. I also noticed jff wasn't holding the ball with one hand nearly as much as he usually does.
also the a&m posters thinking their d did a good job vs our o in holding us to 34 are laughable. we had multiple 6 minute plus drives and we lost a few points on the board with our own dumb penalties which is a custom of les miles teams. Mizzou should be able to control the clock on a&m and do the same. I really believe we could have scored high 40s or 50s had we felt like it but doing that would have turned the game into a shootout because the d would have been on the field more.
Sumlin looked completely defeated by the time the second half started, it could be because he knows he is on the way out to usc.
welter missed a few sacks because he sucks but he did enough of a job to bother jff and force him to back pedal. I also noticed jff wasn't holding the ball with one hand nearly as much as he usually does.
also the a&m posters thinking their d did a good job vs our o in holding us to 34 are laughable. we had multiple 6 minute plus drives and we lost a few points on the board with our own dumb penalties which is a custom of les miles teams. Mizzou should be able to control the clock on a&m and do the same. I really believe we could have scored high 40s or 50s had we felt like it but doing that would have turned the game into a shootout because the d would have been on the field more.
Sumlin looked completely defeated by the time the second half started, it could be because he knows he is on the way out to usc.
Posted on 11/27/13 at 10:10 am to heartbreakTiger
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i don't believe we got a sack from the blitz. All of our sacks were when the defensive tackles pushed the guard and center back and our ends held contain but managed to still get to jff trapping him in the pocket.
Correct. By the time he decided to take off, there was nowhere to go.
quote:
also the a&m posters thinking their d did a good job vs our o in holding us to 34 are laughable. we had multiple 6 minute plus drives and we lost a few points on the board with our own dumb penalties which is a custom of les miles teams.
Not what we were implying. They played well enough to keep us in the game had our offense performed as they usually do. Yes, y'all slowed the game down with long drives, but if it had been a shootout we would have been in the game with their performance (which is all we can really ask from this edition of our defense).
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Sumlin looked completely defeated by the time the second half started, it could be because he knows he is on the way out to usc.
Can we not turn this into a troll thread please? That's what the rant is there for and we actually have some good discussion going on in this thread.
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