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re: Now that Mizzou is on an upswing is there more pressure on BO this fall?
Posted on 3/25/17 at 4:34 pm to JesusQuintana
Posted on 3/25/17 at 4:34 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
1. We don't know if BO has GP ability yet or not. We'll find that out in the next couple years. I think he has a lot of the same qualities so we shall see.
2. It's not being a defeatist, it's being a realist. We will always be fighting an uphill battle in recruiting. We need to be very good at identifying and developing
1. This response is very scary as it is earily similar to the accepting tone and verbage use towards another unproven first time P5 head coach(well at least KA had been a head coach)
2. Wow, every school that is not a top ten blue blood program faces an uphill battle yet some do succeed to land top flight classes many of which have less going for the than MU. Cmon JQ there is being realistic and then there is just lying down and accepting.
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Posted on 3/25/17 at 4:34 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
1. We don't know if BO has GP ability yet or not. We'll find that out in the next couple years. I think he has a lot of the same qualities so we shall see.
2. It's not being a defeatist, it's being a realist. We will always be fighting an uphill battle in recruiting. We need to be very good at identifying and developing
1. This response is very scary as it is earily similar to the accepting tone and verbage use towards another unproven first time P5 head coach(well at least KA had been a head coach)
2. Wow, every school that is not a top ten blue blood program faces an uphill battle yet some do succeed to land top flight classes many of which the school has less going for it than MU. Cmon JQ there is being realistic and then there is just lying down and accepting.
This post was edited on 3/25/17 at 5:40 pm
Posted on 3/25/17 at 6:45 pm to muinsandiegp
1. It's nothing like Anderson. Mizzou basketball has no excuse to not recruit well. Football is a different story.
2. First, there is nothing I can do about it so whether or not I "lay down and take it" won't mean much. Second, there is a way for non blue bloods to recruit top classes. Ask Ole Miss how that works out.
Doesn't mean we can't win. We can. GP proved it. It just means we aren't going to beat SEC teams by "out recruiting" them. People get way too wrapped up in "stars" anyway.
2. First, there is nothing I can do about it so whether or not I "lay down and take it" won't mean much. Second, there is a way for non blue bloods to recruit top classes. Ask Ole Miss how that works out.
Doesn't mean we can't win. We can. GP proved it. It just means we aren't going to beat SEC teams by "out recruiting" them. People get way too wrapped up in "stars" anyway.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 7:06 pm to JesusQuintana
The #15 ranked class was .49 stars better than MUs 48th ranked class in average player rating.
How on Earth will they ever over come such a cavernous margin?
How on Earth will they ever over come such a cavernous margin?
This post was edited on 3/25/17 at 7:07 pm
Posted on 3/25/17 at 7:40 pm to JesusQuintana
In response to your GP reference as well as Navy's subsequent point about the gap to achieving a top 15 class I reiterate a previous opinion/post of mine
quote:
I fully appreciated what coach Pinkel was able to do as the head of our fb program as he was consistantly able to coach up his roster of predominantly 2&3* recruits to perform more like 3&4* players but I honestly was disappointed in his ability to land the #of true blue chips needed to put MUFB on the next level especially during and directly after when we we winning back to back East crowns and going to the SEC championship game Cotton bowls etc. My optimistic nut cup protector took a lot of hits let me admit. However, there is no reason MU should not be in at least the middle of the SEC recruiting pack. I really do not know why we went away from our successful TX recruting footprint to battle the established SEC powers on their home turf but I think we "may" have learned our lesson at least I hope so.
There is plenty of talent in our Midwest territory to include TX to accomplish what sould be our goal. However, to do so we must first dominate our home state and surrounding areas. What is dominate? Hard to quantify but would use this years crop as a hypothetical example. We need to sign 7 of the top ten local recruits and at least 2 of the 3 true top flight blue chips. If this would be done then I would say we effectively locked down our home state and I would predict at least a middle of the pack SEC class.
Will the above happen? currently I have very realistic doubts but could it,Yes. Should it? Well as MU alums and fans we should require it.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 9:11 pm to muinsandiegp
JQ, I think you have a new admirer.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 10:37 pm to navynuke
we're not going to get to atlanta with the 47th class. we certainly are not going to win atlanta with the 47th class.
Pinkel found some diamonds in the rough, some 2's that got drafted, some 4's that played like 5's, and a handful of 5's. Add some solid well coached up 3's and we could occasionally have a 2007 or a 2013 year where we got to the conference championship but couldn't win it.
Now we are trying to get back to there. It would be nice to go past it. It would also be nice to keep more of our 5 star in state guys.
When we play Auburn next season we are going to be up against a team that's bigger, stronger, and faster than us and will wear us down. The same is true to a lesser extent with Florida, Georgia, and even Tenner (in that order). Athlete wise we are a middle of the pack east team, and so far we are moving in the wrong direction
Pinkel found some diamonds in the rough, some 2's that got drafted, some 4's that played like 5's, and a handful of 5's. Add some solid well coached up 3's and we could occasionally have a 2007 or a 2013 year where we got to the conference championship but couldn't win it.
Now we are trying to get back to there. It would be nice to go past it. It would also be nice to keep more of our 5 star in state guys.
When we play Auburn next season we are going to be up against a team that's bigger, stronger, and faster than us and will wear us down. The same is true to a lesser extent with Florida, Georgia, and even Tenner (in that order). Athlete wise we are a middle of the pack east team, and so far we are moving in the wrong direction
This post was edited on 3/25/17 at 11:02 pm
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:05 pm to MIZ_COU
I wasn't aware that Odom was only going to play? the guys from this year's recruiting class this fall.
That's salty.
That's salty.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:08 pm to navynuke
Not sure what that has to do with anything but sure, ok
although if he does that I'm going to have to modify my above statement to athlete wise we are next to last in the east.
although if he does that I'm going to have to modify my above statement to athlete wise we are next to last in the east.
This post was edited on 3/25/17 at 11:12 pm
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:18 pm to MIZ_COU
You said that the #48 class wouldn't get the team to Atlanta. Just how many of the guys other than the JUCO players are you expecting to contribute?
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:29 pm to MIZ_COU
We've had one year under Odom. One. I don't know how you can establish any direction, but sure.
This holding out for recruiting on the level of blue blood teams is going to leave you very dissatisfied. It's just not going to happen. Not under Pinkel. Not under Odom. Not under anyone.
That's not how college football works. It's the most uneven playing field in all of sports. Get used to it.
Now, a REALLY good coach can buck this trend but only on occasion. Pinkel had two true contenders in 2 true contenders in 15 years and he's an excellent coach. He had several other decent to pretty good teams, but only two true contenders. A good coach at a blue blood is pretty much going to have one every year. I disagree that the 07 or 13 teams weren't good enough to win. They just didn't. Several teams every year are good enough, but don't. It becomes magnified when you only have a handful of chances.
Before we start worrying about Odom's recruiting, let's see what his first class looks like in a couple years and what he signs moving forward. More importantly what he does with the guys he can sign.
Mizzou has to commit to a coach and give them the time to get their process fully implemented. There are not going to be any quick fixes here.
If Odom is not the guy. Then we try someone else in a few years. The next guy will also have to win through identification and development.
This holding out for recruiting on the level of blue blood teams is going to leave you very dissatisfied. It's just not going to happen. Not under Pinkel. Not under Odom. Not under anyone.
That's not how college football works. It's the most uneven playing field in all of sports. Get used to it.
Now, a REALLY good coach can buck this trend but only on occasion. Pinkel had two true contenders in 2 true contenders in 15 years and he's an excellent coach. He had several other decent to pretty good teams, but only two true contenders. A good coach at a blue blood is pretty much going to have one every year. I disagree that the 07 or 13 teams weren't good enough to win. They just didn't. Several teams every year are good enough, but don't. It becomes magnified when you only have a handful of chances.
Before we start worrying about Odom's recruiting, let's see what his first class looks like in a couple years and what he signs moving forward. More importantly what he does with the guys he can sign.
Mizzou has to commit to a coach and give them the time to get their process fully implemented. There are not going to be any quick fixes here.
If Odom is not the guy. Then we try someone else in a few years. The next guy will also have to win through identification and development.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:37 pm to muinsandiegp
You call folks "kool-aid drinkers"...well, your opinions are the exact opposite of the proverbial drinking of said kool aid.
I'm sure you think you are a centered "realist" though.
I'm sure you think you are a centered "realist" though.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 12:06 am to JesusQuintana
quote:I agree. Just sayin he and staff will need to do better. Rooting for them obviously.
We've had one year under Odom. One. I don't know how you can establish any direction, but sure.
quote:I don't agree. I could point to many programs whose recruiting changed dramatically with a coaching change. Recruiting is a skill like anything else.
It's just not going to happen. Not under Pinkel. Not under Odom. Not under anyone.
quote:No they were not. In 07 Oklahoma beat us with little trouble twice (and in reality, Oklahoma was the only top 10 team we played that year), in 13 Auburn blew by our LB's like they weren't even on the field. 13 had the best offense in the country though, a good pass rush, and a shutdown corner. They were only going to get beat by a very strong power running team. So really only Auburn or Alabama
I disagree that the 07 or 13 teams weren't good enough to win.
quote:tru
let's see what his first class looks like in a couple years and what he signs moving forward.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 8:38 am
Posted on 3/26/17 at 12:10 am to navynuke
quote:What we have now isn't going to get us to Atlanta (unless we get lucky). It's not terrible though, we could get third or maybe even second. It could also get us fifth
You said that the #48 class wouldn't get the team to Atlanta.
The #48 class isn't going to get us out of the bottom third of the east. Which is the easy division.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 9:11 am
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:15 am to muinsandiegp
I think the football team wins 10 games next year. Also think your comparison is idiotic.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:54 am to MIZ_COU
Show me one non blue blood program that consistently recruits like one or even close.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 1:57 pm to MIZ_COU
Kansas was ranked #2 in the country. ILLINOIS played in the rose bowl...
Posted on 3/26/17 at 3:18 pm to muinsandiegp
quote:
Please one and all feel free to save my comments/opinion for what I sincerely hope will be the time where you have the objective data to call me out and proove me wrong.
Nobody on this board needs to prove anything to you. You have what, less than 20 posts? You lost most of us when you said that KA and Odom were equivalent. That is such a foolish statement a lot of people won't care what else you have to say.
Talk specifics, make sense, and maybe you can earn some credibility.
Kim got three disastrous years with no improvements. Odom showed improvements by the end of his first year.
With regard to recruiting, just like under Pinkel, when Missouri finds 2 star diamonds, they stay underrated, when Bama finds them, they get upgraded. Go down the recruiting roster and look at our athletes and try to identify what the staff sees. Understand they're also trying to supplement roster weaknesses. Also realize that a lot of linemen don't get graded past 3 stars, but in the SEC, the linemen you have make or break you. This year's recruiting class is heavy in grunts-what we needed. Odom took over a team with big holes, a gigantic one on the offensive line. He plugged those gaps and in one year turned that unit from the worst into arguably our best. Yes, he made mistakes in changing the defense, but by the end of the year, he'd changed it back. Why do you think we finished the way we did? If you can't see these things you're not trying very hard.
This post was edited on 4/6/17 at 9:33 pm
Posted on 3/26/17 at 4:00 pm to MIZ_COU
If you want assume that none of the players in this years class will develop and contribute, so be it.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 4:07 pm to MizzouJim
quote:
when Bama finds them, they get upgraded.
Bama isn't recruiting two stars. When they recruit a three star, he gets upgraded to four. When they recruit a four star, he gets upgraded to a five.
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