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re: How complicit is Gary Pinkel in all of this?
Posted on 9/16/17 at 8:15 pm to TigerCruise
Posted on 9/16/17 at 8:15 pm to TigerCruise
Basketball got the top recruit in the country because he happened to live most of his like a few miles from Mizzou. Then other people followed because there's a chance to win a natty.
You go get me the best 4 high school football players in the country and their also highly rated brothers (5 on the court vs 22 on the field) and I'll make all your recruiting issues disappear.
Look, I'm not trying to fight over who thinks Mizzou sucks more. It sucks where we are. I'm just saying there's an impact over what happened that we're still experiencing
TBH, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my GP coaching tree point in the first place.
You go get me the best 4 high school football players in the country and their also highly rated brothers (5 on the court vs 22 on the field) and I'll make all your recruiting issues disappear.
Look, I'm not trying to fight over who thinks Mizzou sucks more. It sucks where we are. I'm just saying there's an impact over what happened that we're still experiencing
TBH, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my GP coaching tree point in the first place.
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Posted on 9/16/17 at 8:20 pm to Mizzeaux
It doesn't have to be a lingering effect, but now we have another problem. We are likely to be looking for a coach in a year when a lot of major programs are looking for coaches and the pickings look pretty slim. Maybe Sterk has something up his sleeve, but I don't know what
Posted on 9/16/17 at 8:23 pm to surgicalvenom
quote:
How complicit is Gary Pinkel in all of this?
Thats exactly my point...being black means being exposed to racist individuals in every area, there are no "hot spots." The media presents the news like Mizzou is a unique problem, and who are the people who believe it, whites.
If someone plays in their poop to make swastikas, black families understand thats an individual not a school policy.
Your point makes no sense.
There's so much racism in the world, yet it was so bad at Mizzou that a large group of black students protested it, one was on a hunger strike. It's that much worse at Mizzou than it is anywhere else. That's what comes out of that. 100%.
Some people believe it, some don't. The fact that it's brought up at all is a huge negative. Some will let it impact, some won't. However, if one person lets it impact their decision, Mizzou is at a disadvantage against almost every other school.
Like I said last time, I'm not even sure it matters to my original point.
Posted on 9/16/17 at 8:31 pm to surgicalvenom
quote:
So youre point is black families dont put up with racism unless the school has a big name? You sure about that?
It's a two way street, these superstar athletes are playing football with mostly one thought in mind. They, and anyone, would be able to put up with extra if it helps them achieve their end goal. frick we all do that on a daily basis in going to work, this is their work. Now does Mizzou get you to the NFL? Right now? Probably not. Will Alabama? Oklahoma? Much better opportunity
Additionally, you are comparing apples and oranges, shownme a top tier football program who threatened to boycott games for ANY reason, let alone because the campus is so full of hate against their race, and I'll get on board with you. There are different levels of severity, with different results, ours was pretty damn near as bad as it can get
This post was edited on 9/16/17 at 8:36 pm
Posted on 9/16/17 at 8:33 pm to Mizzoufan26
I mean they managed to make Crockett look like a bum today, so pretty sure this coaching staff isn't getting anyone drafted anytime soon.
Posted on 9/16/17 at 9:13 pm to surgicalvenom
quote:
Thats exactly my point...being black means being exposed to racist individuals in every area, there are no "hot spots." The media presents the news like Mizzou is a unique problem, and who are the people who believe it, whites.
Except black student applications and enrollment has gone down at a swifter pace than even the rest of student population drop.
Posted on 9/16/17 at 11:41 pm to the808bass
It's more like the people who believe it are pretty much anybody. Because people in general are depressingly stupid. Regardless of melanin levels
This post was edited on 9/17/17 at 1:00 am
Posted on 9/17/17 at 12:15 am to JesusQuintana
The only thing that the protests might have impacted was giving us BO. Even that I think is mostly fantasy and searching for a scapegoat. Rhoades having one foot out of the door had more to do with it than the protests.
People used to claim that the protests ran off the big money boosters but Sterk hasn't had much problem getting donations despite the protests.
Bottom line, the protests are just an easy thing to point to for all of life's problems.
People used to claim that the protests ran off the big money boosters but Sterk hasn't had much problem getting donations despite the protests.
Bottom line, the protests are just an easy thing to point to for all of life's problems.
Posted on 9/17/17 at 12:16 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
but I also have to think there were a whole lot of unreturned phone calls during the search and a lot of that has to do with how Pinkel handled the situation.
Meh. Doubtful and if that silly shite that went down were enough to scare off a coach, trust me, it's not a coach we would want.
Posted on 9/17/17 at 12:20 am to Mizzeaux
quote:
Just because he recruited some black kids doesn't mean he didn't get shut out of a few houses. There are issues in the country, I don't know how many parents are willing to send their 18 year old into one of the hotspots when there's 20 other options.
Just like anything in life, it probably shut us out of a few houses but also opened us up to a few houses. Just like having 5 wins would do. It's all a wash.
The bottom line is that BO holds the blame for "all of this" and Rhoades shares it with him. GP has zero blame.
Posted on 9/17/17 at 1:00 am to reedus23
yep a simple thing to point to for simple folk
Posted on 9/17/17 at 1:13 am to surgicalvenom
A good coach doesn't have a 1-11 season like Odom has put us in position for which isn't unlikely. And get this garbage race stuff out of the Mizzou section, it only divides us further as fans.
This post was edited on 9/17/17 at 1:14 am
Posted on 9/17/17 at 1:42 am to reedus23
quote:
The bottom line is that BO holds the blame for "all of this" and Rhoades shares it with him. GP has zero blame.
It really is that simple...... However I guess spinning GP into BO's failure, makes some feel better.
Posted on 9/17/17 at 2:03 am to reedus23
We'll just have to disagree.
I think, again, you are vastly understating the impact. It's far reaching and deeper than just where we are. It led directly to BO. Rhoades didn't want to hire BO. He pursued several others first, and had to settle.
It's not that I think it's having a huge effect on current recruiting or anything, but it is having a huge effect on just how bad we are which is having a huge effect on recruiting, fan support, program standing etc.
GP's missteps started the ball downhill to this point. Odom has done nothing to slow it, but it had incredible inertia before he took over.
I just don't understand how you can get to the point of saying that the previous coach has zero effect on the program 15 games after he's gone. Good or bad they always have a lot of skin in the game this early.
I think, again, you are vastly understating the impact. It's far reaching and deeper than just where we are. It led directly to BO. Rhoades didn't want to hire BO. He pursued several others first, and had to settle.
It's not that I think it's having a huge effect on current recruiting or anything, but it is having a huge effect on just how bad we are which is having a huge effect on recruiting, fan support, program standing etc.
GP's missteps started the ball downhill to this point. Odom has done nothing to slow it, but it had incredible inertia before he took over.
I just don't understand how you can get to the point of saying that the previous coach has zero effect on the program 15 games after he's gone. Good or bad they always have a lot of skin in the game this early.
This post was edited on 9/17/17 at 2:06 am
Posted on 9/17/17 at 6:49 am to reedus23
quote:
People used to claim that the protests ran off the big money boosters but Sterk hasn't had much problem getting donations despite the protests.
It took cleaning out anyone who so much as sniffed like they supported the players even down to Pat Ivey. With the Pinkel Putsch complete the donors returned, yes?
Back to the OP... I think a significant portion of this on-the-field trainwreck can be traced back to Pinkel's decision to abandon Texas recruiting for the southeast when we first joined the SEC. Those classes should be the senior and junior impact players of today and we've got nothing.
Odom corrected it but won't live to see if it bears fruit.
This post was edited on 9/17/17 at 6:53 am
Posted on 9/17/17 at 10:03 am to JesusQuintana
PInkel only had one choice once his players decided to side with the boycott and he made the correct decision. If he did not, there is no way trust is granted to black families on sending their kids to Mizzou. Not without other incentives which helps other programs.
Look, Im black and I have had an opportunity to be surrounded by a lot of recruits who went to major programs. So while my perspective may be limited in scope, I have had the privilege to get some real perspective from friends and family.
We are not the only school in this conference who has divisive racial problems. At Alabama black students know that they have "the machine" on campus, at Ole Miss you hear about how the KKK resides outside of Oxford. At Oklahoma the famous video of a fraternity saying racial slurs was blast on media outlets causing a response by current players to discuss. Our problem is simply football and recruiting related, because to be real other schools incentives will cover up any other issues the university has. Mizzou does what it has to do, but we don't spend money and show the same effort of investing in our program other schools do. Thats the true bottom line.
There were plenty of players who loved the fact PInkel stood behind them. There were recruits who saw their coach show solidarity with the team. That was great and it helps, but at the end of the day we have to show more from an arms race standpoint and we don't.
Look, Im black and I have had an opportunity to be surrounded by a lot of recruits who went to major programs. So while my perspective may be limited in scope, I have had the privilege to get some real perspective from friends and family.
We are not the only school in this conference who has divisive racial problems. At Alabama black students know that they have "the machine" on campus, at Ole Miss you hear about how the KKK resides outside of Oxford. At Oklahoma the famous video of a fraternity saying racial slurs was blast on media outlets causing a response by current players to discuss. Our problem is simply football and recruiting related, because to be real other schools incentives will cover up any other issues the university has. Mizzou does what it has to do, but we don't spend money and show the same effort of investing in our program other schools do. Thats the true bottom line.
There were plenty of players who loved the fact PInkel stood behind them. There were recruits who saw their coach show solidarity with the team. That was great and it helps, but at the end of the day we have to show more from an arms race standpoint and we don't.
Posted on 9/17/17 at 10:18 am to countrygrammar
But they lost the fans and the money guys.
So it didn't hurt recruiting, but it didn't help the money situation which you listed later as an issue.
And the boycott threat made the Mizzou protests a national story that everyone covered which caused a drop in enrollment.
Pinkel didn't handle it the only way he could have handled it. He just handled it the only way he thought he could handle it. His leadership style to that point let the players know that they could get away with it.
I appreciate your perspective though.
So it didn't hurt recruiting, but it didn't help the money situation which you listed later as an issue.
And the boycott threat made the Mizzou protests a national story that everyone covered which caused a drop in enrollment.
Pinkel didn't handle it the only way he could have handled it. He just handled it the only way he thought he could handle it. His leadership style to that point let the players know that they could get away with it.
I appreciate your perspective though.
Posted on 9/17/17 at 10:30 am to the808bass
I appreciate yours as well.
Posted on 9/17/17 at 10:45 am to countrygrammar
I believe Pinkel thought he was doing the right thing. I believe, in hindsight, that it was the wrong decision. I also agreed with your stance in the beginning that it was the only thing he could do, but I've changed my mind. He could have told the players that while they are free to support any social issues they choose, this team is going to play a game Saturday. If you personally choose to sit then we will have to make a decision on your scholarship. No great way to handle it, but the way he did was more harmful imo.
Bigger than that though, the decision to drop the mess on someone else was also a big issue. GP wasn't done coaching until that all happened. He just didn't want to go through what he knew was going to be a nightmare.
Bigger than that though, the decision to drop the mess on someone else was also a big issue. GP wasn't done coaching until that all happened. He just didn't want to go through what he knew was going to be a nightmare.
Posted on 9/17/17 at 11:12 am to JesusQuintana
What the fuk difference does it make? Is coming up with an exact percentage of GP responsibility going to help fix this? In my career I've dealt with two types of people, those that are focused on dealing with whatever needs to be dealt with; and those who's only real contribution is playing the blame game. Any guesses which one you are?
quote:All of that is just conjecture coming out of your tiny pointed head. Could be true. I guess. He must be feeling pretty lucky he got cancer right when he did.
Bigger than that though, the decision to drop the mess on someone else was also a big issue. GP wasn't done coaching until that all happened. He just didn't want to go through what he knew was going to be a nightmare.
This post was edited on 9/17/17 at 11:19 am
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