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Posted on 2/17/16 at 11:15 am to the808bass
Haith inherited a different situation.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 11:28 am to JAGsports
He inherited a world-class first year roster. In his second year, he really only had Bowers and Pressey left from Anderson. That's still better than Kim got, but those two were gone after that year.
So at year 3, Haith had nothing left from Anderson and managed a 19-14 season or something like that with an NIT berth. But the basketball was so awful (especially on defense) that he lost a lot of fan support. Plus, he's black.
So at year 3, Haith had nothing left from Anderson and managed a 19-14 season or something like that with an NIT berth. But the basketball was so awful (especially on defense) that he lost a lot of fan support. Plus, he's black.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 11:32 am to the808bass
I don't think winning one tourney game in like 12 yrs and getting 2 schools on probation has anything to do with skin color.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 11:35 am to the808bass
quote:
He inherited a world-class first year roster. In his second year, he really only had Bowers and Pressey left from Anderson. That's still better than Kim got, but those two were gone after that year.
So at year 3, Haith had nothing left from Anderson and managed a 19-14 season or something like that with an NIT berth. But the basketball was so awful (especially on defense) that he lost a lot of fan support. Plus, he's black.
Rosburg will be the first HS recruit to graduate since Lawrence Bowers. After him, it will be the Isabel/Gant/Allen/Wright group, and odds are at least two of those won't make it to graduation. When you have three full recruiting cycles with zero four year players, and four of five full recruiting cycles with zero four year players, your program is torpedoed unless you're Kentucky, and we are definitely not Kentucky.
Some of that is Haith's fault, some of it is Anderson's (Mike), and hell, some of it is probably Kim's fault. But while you can get by for a season or two using the Haith method, you cannot (at least not at Mizzou) build a program with transfers.
Maybe Kim isn't the right guy, but my guess is that in two years Mizzou will be in a much better position program wise than they were in Yr 3 of Haith's tenure because they'll actually have a basis of consistency...I don't think they'll be as good as the 2011-12 team, but I think they'll look a lot like them because of the leadership a solid core of seniors will give them. Now whether or not Kim will be the guy coaching them then is the million dollar question (almost literally).
Posted on 2/17/16 at 1:04 pm to JAGsports
I have seen the light. I love having a shitty program. Contract extensions for all. I am no longer a hater. I love the product on the floor. Sign me up for season tickets if you can promise me more of the same.
Seriously, calling people haters simply because they want better is weak stuff. If hating being the laughing stock a college hoops qualifies me as a hater then guilty as charged. But there is a difference between hating the current state of the program and hating the program period. If you can't see the difference, sorry
Seriously, calling people haters simply because they want better is weak stuff. If hating being the laughing stock a college hoops qualifies me as a hater then guilty as charged. But there is a difference between hating the current state of the program and hating the program period. If you can't see the difference, sorry
Posted on 2/17/16 at 1:15 pm to reedus23
What you don't get is the fact that you didn't like KA being hired and you are rooting for prediction that he won't succeed. You zero support and give no credit when it's due. That is a hater. I love argument of "the product on the floor is bad and I'm not spending my money to go to a game." Which is fine and I agree that the product is unacceptable but 2 years isn't enough time to come in and change the culture here. I'm sorry that you would rather cut corners and take the easy way to succeed and instead of showing support, you would rather bitch, moan and complain. I guess the former athlete in me is coming out but I'd rather show my support for me and fight. Instead of when it isn't going my way, tucking my tail and run.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 1:25 pm to JAGsports
quote:
you would rather bitch, moan and complain
I can deal with the bitching and moaning or bitching and complaining. Heck, if there's no alternative, moaning and complaining is tolerable. But all three?
Posted on 2/17/16 at 1:39 pm to reedus23
quote:
Seriously, calling people haters simply because they want better is weak stuff.
I agree with you on this but the flip side is expecting too much too soon and I think too many fans are. If it takes 3 or even 4 years to get us where we need to be then I'm good with it. I readily admit that this season disappointed me but you have to break a few eggs to bake a cake & you can't build a solid house on a weak foundation. IMO KA has built the foundation.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 1:49 pm to seaniec04
quote:
tourney game in like 12 yrs and getting 2 schools on probation has anything to do with skin color.
And he still has a better track record at D1 than Kim.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 1:53 pm to JAGsports
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Which is fine and I agree that the product is unacceptable but 2 years isn't enough time to come in and change the culture here.
It is enough time to win more than 3 conference games a year in the shitty SEC. Again, if Haith had come into this situation Anderson has, you wouldn't have accepted the results Kim has produced. No one would.
He got a job he wasn't qualified for and has performed at an unacceptable level and somehow, he has a bunch of people who defend every action he makes as the result of some country boy savant decision making process. When it's far more likely he's flailing around and trying to keep from drowning.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 4:23 pm to the808bass
All true. He should have never been hired. I don't hate him because I think most people would have grab the job especially if MU was their alma mater but he had no business getting the job. With Clark leaving and us bound to lose another kid or two and a poor recruiting class coming in I expect us to be worst next year. KA can't coach. Might be the nicest guy the world but that doesn't be you don't pull the job from him. If he was working at Burger King and was getting 2/3 of his job wrong he would be fired. Why not here? We should demand better but half the time I don't think he even acts like he cares. We are a doormat in the worst P5 basketball league in the country. The SEC isn't close to any of the other four.
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Which is fine and I agree that the product is unacceptable but 2 years isn't enough time to come in and change the culture here.
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It is enough time to win more than 3 conference games a year in the shitty SEC. Again, if Haith had come into this situation Anderson has, you wouldn't have accepted the results Kim has produced. No one would.
He got a job he wasn't qualified for and has performed at an unacceptable level and somehow, he has a bunch of people who defend every action he makes as the result of some country boy savant decision making process. When it's far more likely he's flailing around and trying to keep from drowning.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 4:24 pm to ZackAttackTiger
Preach!
Posted on 2/17/16 at 4:48 pm to ZackAttackTiger
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With Clark leaving and us bound to lose another kid or two and a poor recruiting class coming in I expect us to be worst next year. KA can't coach.
I don't get the sense that Mizzou will be worse next year. The recruiting class isn't done either.
KP & TP with a year experience look to be very solid 4 year building blocks.
The only questions I have now are Has KA learned enough, so that maybe now he is qualified?
If yes then next year will be better. If not next years will be the same and we move on.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 5:56 pm to JAGsports
quote:
What you don't get is the fact that you didn't like KA being hired and you are rooting for prediction that he won't succeed.
Couldn't be more wrong. I wouldn't have picked KA but I jumped on board and was all in by the time practices started. I'd bet you can find a post where I probably even had given him an A or B for the job he had done to date, basically salvaging the class and getting Teki and keeping most of the guys on board. Then UMKC happened and it went down hill from there.
quote:
You zero support and give no credit when it's due.
What should he have credit for to date?
I gave him credit for 2 wins in a row. I think it's sad that we now consider 2 wins in a row a positive, but I did give him credit for that.
What else does he get credit for having accomplished at Mizzou?
quote:
That is a hater.
Yes, it is. Of sub-par performance. Not of the program and not even of KA. He earned that.
quote:
I love argument of "the product on the floor is bad and I'm not spending my money to go to a game." Which is fine and I agree that the product is unacceptable but
To be honest, not just money, but not even going to invest my time to go watch them.
quote:
2 years isn't enough time to come in and change the culture here.
2 years is enough time in basketball. More so than any other sport. If for no other reason than one class changes everything. Having said that, I'm not even expecting a tourney appearance in year 2. I am expecting improvement. Maybe 2 games is the start of that.
quote:
I'm sorry that you would rather cut corners and take the easy way to succeed and instead of showing support, you would rather bitch, moan and complain.
Never said anything about cutting corners. It is possible to not cut corners and still not set historical records for futility. And I will bitch and moan about bad performances and applaud solid performances.
quote:
I guess the former athlete in me is coming out but I'd rather show my support for me and fight.
As a former athlete I know that nothing different is being said here than in KA's office or in the locker room. Some just don't like it because it's being said in a public forum. I guarantee you that not a single one of them accept the results to date or we really are in trouble.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 5:59 pm to Wtodd
quote:
I agree with you on this but the flip side is expecting too much too soon and I think too many fans are. If it takes 3 or even 4 years to get us where we need to be then I'm good with it. I readily admit that this season disappointed me but you have to break a few eggs to bake a cake & you can't build a solid house on a weak foundation. IMO KA has built the foundation.
I think we really are on the same page more than you realize.
Year 1 - double digit wins
Year 2 - 15 wins
Year 3 - Post season play
Those have consistently been my expectations. I really don't think that is expecting too much too soon. Any bitching and moaning is due to past performance as much or more than about what the future brings. Failed to meet Year 1 expectations. Odds are against making Year 2 expectations. And I haven't seen anything to make me think Year 3 will be met, but hopefully so.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 6:33 pm to reedus23
Maybe he's a year behind schedule?
Posted on 2/17/16 at 6:38 pm to JesusQuintana
Certainly looks that way. J3 and MGC transferring definitely pushed the timeline back. Otherwise I think 14-15 wins was attainable.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 8:25 pm to the808bass
You sound mad bro. You know nothing of what it takes to be qualified to coach college basketball. You are either going to be happy or sad over the next 2 years, but KA will be the coach.
Posted on 2/17/16 at 8:36 pm to AKTigerChief
Mad because he's stating a position and stating facts? Ok then. You may be right about the next 2 years and KA and time will tell. I don't know that I'll be sad but certainly won't enjoy much basketball for the next 2 years if they're like the last 2. I'll take it the last 2 years have made you happy. Congrats.
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